Waiting in Line
04-13-05, 03:50 PM
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Waiting in Line
I was reading another thread which touched on this and I'd like to get some specifics. If Ipull up to a few cars at a red light and I want to turn right or go straight I always just stop behind the last car, pull out to take the lane and wait it out. Often cars will pull up behind me and everything is fine. Is this common or advised? I've always been afraid to hug the right curb and go infront of them because they will end up having to pass me again (X10 when downtown) and this might piss them off.
Is this what everybody refers to as VC?
Is this what everybody refers to as VC?
04-13-05, 04:26 PM
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I wouldn't say it is common, but some people would advise it and it is what I do in some situations. If I can see the light and I know the cars will be moving faster than I will be moving after the light changes, I line up behind them. If the line is really long and/or I know traffic is so heavy that the cars won't be moving so fast, I move to the front.
04-13-05, 04:33 PM
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I think stopping behind the last car, and taking the lane is the safest option and is also advised in VC.
I have to admit though that I go slowly up the inside to the front if I think I won't make it through the first green light. Otherwise I will usually wait in line. Sometimes I justify going up on the inside by the fact that I will be letting one extra car get through the green light
One caveat: where I live there is no free turn at stop lights. If there were then I would probably wait in line if I was going straight, but go to the front if turning right.
I have to admit though that I go slowly up the inside to the front if I think I won't make it through the first green light. Otherwise I will usually wait in line. Sometimes I justify going up on the inside by the fact that I will be letting one extra car get through the green light
One caveat: where I live there is no free turn at stop lights. If there were then I would probably wait in line if I was going straight, but go to the front if turning right.
Last edited by steel_is_real; 04-13-05 at 06:03 PM.
04-13-05, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jefft
I was reading another thread which touched on this and I'd like to get some specifics. If Ipull up to a few cars at a red light and I want to turn right or go straight I always just stop behind the last car, pull out to take the lane and wait it out. Often cars will pull up behind me and everything is fine. Is this common or advised? I've always been afraid to hug the right curb and go infront of them because they will end up having to pass me again (X10 when downtown) and this might piss them off.
Is this what everybody refers to as VC?
Is this what everybody refers to as VC?
Of course the other thing I really prefer to do is time my approach so I don't wait, the motorists go before me, and I cross behind the last car... the only problem with this is that sometimes there is someone waiting to turn left and they don't know I am behind the last car, and I might not even see them if the auto I am behind is an SUV... cross with caution.
On some crowded multi lane roads, where there is a dedicated right turn lane, I simply ride up the right turn lane dividing stripe and then go across with the first vehicle. Not particularly VC, but I am shielded by the mass of that first vehicle to the eyes of other motorists... this is particularly handy in CA where right turn on red is legal. Some of the right turners just glance, and no matter how bright your clothing or where you are in the lane, you just don't register as a vehicle with them... ride across with the mass of a car, and they wait to make their right turn.
04-13-05, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jefft
If I pull up to a few cars at a red light and I want to turn right or go straight I always just stop behind the last car, pull out to take the lane and wait it out. Often cars will pull up behind me and everything is fine. Is this common or advised?
Different cyclists have different opinions on filtering
forward: Some never do it, while others only do it if overtaking motorists
won't be terribly inconvenienced when they have to pass a second time.
In most cases I merge into the middle of the appropriate traffic lane when
approaching a signal for which drivers need to stop. I find this to be
reasonably safe. If I am the first one to the line and the driver behind me is
signaling a right turn from our combined straight/right turn lane, I may scoot
to the left to allow that driver to pass me on the right. Otherwise I claim
the lane.
I know some cyclists who travel on roads with wide lanes/shoulders where
traffic signals can back up a long way, requiring several signal cycles to get
through. Some of these cyclists advocate filtering forward slowly on the wide
shoulder or wide lane (provided that there is no chance of another driver
turning right) until the cyclist is close enough to the intersection to clear
it on the next signal cycle. They then merge into the correct lane position
for their destination as the traffic begins to move. I think this can be done
reasonably safely, but it isn't part of my normal cycling habit because I
don't see much of this kind of congestion where I travel by bike.
Other cyclists will pass on the left or otherwise split lanes when passing
stopped cars, and merge right as traffic speeds up. This can be done safely in
some situations but I don't have much experience doing it myself.
I have observed that lane-splitting and filter-forward practices vary from
city to city and country to country based on cultural expectations. Here in
NC, some drivers expect cyclists to stay in line at intersections, and others
expect cyclists to stay out of the travel lanes entirely. You won't be able to
please everyone no matter what you do, but claiming the lane and getting in
line is always legal and is reasonably safe.
forward: Some never do it, while others only do it if overtaking motorists
won't be terribly inconvenienced when they have to pass a second time.
In most cases I merge into the middle of the appropriate traffic lane when
approaching a signal for which drivers need to stop. I find this to be
reasonably safe. If I am the first one to the line and the driver behind me is
signaling a right turn from our combined straight/right turn lane, I may scoot
to the left to allow that driver to pass me on the right. Otherwise I claim
the lane.
I know some cyclists who travel on roads with wide lanes/shoulders where
traffic signals can back up a long way, requiring several signal cycles to get
through. Some of these cyclists advocate filtering forward slowly on the wide
shoulder or wide lane (provided that there is no chance of another driver
turning right) until the cyclist is close enough to the intersection to clear
it on the next signal cycle. They then merge into the correct lane position
for their destination as the traffic begins to move. I think this can be done
reasonably safely, but it isn't part of my normal cycling habit because I
don't see much of this kind of congestion where I travel by bike.
Other cyclists will pass on the left or otherwise split lanes when passing
stopped cars, and merge right as traffic speeds up. This can be done safely in
some situations but I don't have much experience doing it myself.
I have observed that lane-splitting and filter-forward practices vary from
city to city and country to country based on cultural expectations. Here in
NC, some drivers expect cyclists to stay in line at intersections, and others
expect cyclists to stay out of the travel lanes entirely. You won't be able to
please everyone no matter what you do, but claiming the lane and getting in
line is always legal and is reasonably safe.
04-13-05, 06:16 PM
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I was just thinking about this today. I normally stay in line behind the cars, but this one road I ride on has a rather large shoulder and I usually ride it. I've been going to the front of the line on the shoulder with the belief that I'm not causing too much grief for the drivers.
04-13-05, 06:17 PM
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In most cases I merge into the middle of the appropriate traffic lane when
approaching a signal for which drivers need to stop. I find this to be
reasonably safe. If I am the first one to the line and the driver behind me is
signaling a right turn from our combined straight/right turn lane, I may scoot
to the left to allow that driver to pass me on the right. Otherwise I claim
the lane.
approaching a signal for which drivers need to stop. I find this to be
reasonably safe. If I am the first one to the line and the driver behind me is
signaling a right turn from our combined straight/right turn lane, I may scoot
to the left to allow that driver to pass me on the right. Otherwise I claim
the lane.
04-13-05, 07:12 PM
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The marking on the streets at traffic lights in the UK provides space for bikes in front of the first car, and this space is across the whole lane.
04-13-05, 07:17 PM
#10
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Just check your local road laws. Here in Australia, there is a provision for cyclists that specifically permits filtering on the kerb side of motor vehicles, EXCEPT if a vehicle is indicating to turn left (remembering that vehicles operate on the opposite side of the road here).
04-13-05, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jefft
Yeah, that hits it on the head. I do exactly that and times when I scoot to the left to let a car by they are often appreciative. I never encounter lines long enough to warrent butting ahead, but even if I did I think I'd just wait the extra cycle, it's no big deal.
In that instance I usually stomp on it right off of the green and pull to the right forcing him to slow down and merge left where he shoulda been in the first place. Bikes are usually faster off the line in the first 50 - 100 feet than cars, and I generally move to the right as soon as I've cleared the intersection so I dunno why some drivers get so bent out of shape when a cyclists is in front of them at a light.
-Trevor
04-13-05, 08:48 PM
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"If Ipull up to a few cars at a red light and I want to turn right or go straight I always just stop behind the last car, pull out to take the lane and wait it out"
Thats what I do. Almost all our roads are too narrow to share the lane here. I follow the rules of the road and I expect others to do the same. When in my car and a bike passes me at the light I get held up trying pass him back down the road. When this happens to me, at the next light I put my front tire next to the curb to prevent it from happening again.
Thats what I do. Almost all our roads are too narrow to share the lane here. I follow the rules of the road and I expect others to do the same. When in my car and a bike passes me at the light I get held up trying pass him back down the road. When this happens to me, at the next light I put my front tire next to the curb to prevent it from happening again.
04-13-05, 10:10 PM
#13
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I usually wait my turn in my lane. There is one intersection in my commute where there is a "no turn on red" for a right-hand turn and 90% of the drivers are turning right. I this case, if there is a long line at the light, I will move up to the front of the line and continue going straight so I don't miss the cycle of the light.
04-14-05, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TrevorInSoCal
What really drives me nuts is when I'm at the head of the line at a stop-light and I move to the left to let right-turning traffic get by, and some jerk who refuses to wait behind a cyclist pulls past on my right and waits out the light to proceed straight. Kinda defeats the purpose of being courteous.
In that instance I usually stomp on it right off of the green and pull to the right forcing him to slow down and merge left where he shoulda been in the first place. Bikes are usually faster off the line in the first 50 - 100 feet than cars, and I generally move to the right as soon as I've cleared the intersection so I dunno why some drivers get so bent out of shape when a cyclists is in front of them at a light.
-Trevor
In that instance I usually stomp on it right off of the green and pull to the right forcing him to slow down and merge left where he shoulda been in the first place. Bikes are usually faster off the line in the first 50 - 100 feet than cars, and I generally move to the right as soon as I've cleared the intersection so I dunno why some drivers get so bent out of shape when a cyclists is in front of them at a light.
-Trevor
trying to save that life threatening nano second...
04-14-05, 01:53 PM
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One more thing to be aware of: oncoming cars making left-hand turns. If you are last in line behind an SUV, opposing traffic making unprotected left-turns cannot see you. They time their turn behind the last car, which is right where you are. Whether you filter forward or not, make sure you can see all lanes in all directions before entering an intersection. Filtering forward allows you to take a prominent position at the red light and see anyone whose intended direction intersects with yours.
04-14-05, 02:05 PM
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If the intersection has room for me to filter forward and room on the other side for the motorists to safely pass again, I filter foreward. If the road on either side of the intersection doesn't have room for this, I take the lane and get in line.
04-14-05, 02:37 PM
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What you do is what I do, with one exception: When I have a bike lane, I (cautiously, i.e. less than full speed and watching those cars) advance to the front of the line. The caution helps avoid sudden lane jumpers, doors, left-hand turners, etc.
04-14-05, 06:11 PM
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I'll always claim the lane at intersections so that I can both see and be seen. Here in Columbus, there's really not much occasion to move up at lights because they don't usually last long and there's never much traffic. When I do it, though, I do it on the left (lane-split) rather than curb-side, again for visibility purposes, and that way you're not going to get stuck along the curb by someone who tried to box you out (which some drivers will do just for glee, I think). When I commuted in Boston, lane-splitting was very common and without it you'd never get anywhere in the city -- much like beng stuck in a car.
04-14-05, 06:24 PM
#19
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Just last week, I went out on a new route for a ride after work. As I was approaching a 4-way stop sign (one that I've driven through before) traffic was extremely backed up. It looked as if it would be a good 5 minutes before I made it through the intersection. So while I'll usually take the lane at a light behind the cars, I decided to filter my way up to the front in the shoulder (albeit a narrow one, ~2 feet wide). I get past about 15 cars when a woman spots me and decide to pull her car completely off to the right to block me from getting any further. I found this quite frustrating. #1, I was proceeding slowly mainly for my own sake and by the time she got through the intersection I would have been long gone had she let me by. #2, she had "Impeach Bush" and "Support our troops, Bring them home" bumper stickers on her car which to me implied that she should be happy to see me on a bike instead of wasting fuel idling in a car. I sat behind her for about a minute and each time she moved forward she made sure she stayed blocking the shoulder. Instead of letting my frustration build and eventually taking it out on her in some way, I pulled a u-turn and went on my usual route.
What would you have done?
What would you have done?
04-14-05, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951
Just last week, I went out on a new route for a ride after work. As I was approaching a 4-way stop sign (one that I've driven through before) traffic was extremely backed up. It looked as if it would be a good 5 minutes before I made it through the intersection. So while I'll usually take the lane at a light behind the cars, I decided to filter my way up to the front in the shoulder (albeit a narrow one, ~2 feet wide). I get past about 15 cars when a woman spots me and decide to pull her car completely off to the right to block me from getting any further. I found this quite frustrating. #1, I was proceeding slowly mainly for my own sake and by the time she got through the intersection I would have been long gone had she let me by. #2, she had "Impeach Bush" and "Support our troops, Bring them home" bumper stickers on her car which to me implied that she should be happy to see me on a bike instead of wasting fuel idling in a car. I sat behind her for about a minute and each time she moved forward she made sure she stayed blocking the shoulder. Instead of letting my frustration build and eventually taking it out on her in some way, I pulled a u-turn and went on my usual route.
What would you have done?
What would you have done?
Pick up the bike and walk past her.
04-14-05, 06:48 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by genec
Pick up the bike and walk past her.
04-14-05, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
I always pull up to the front and take the lane. Knock on wood, I've always been ok, and cars don't seem to mind.
Koffee
Koffee
04-14-05, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951
What would you have done?
04-14-05, 09:24 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by CommuterRun
If the intersection has room for me to filter forward and room on the other side for the motorists to safely pass again, I filter foreward. If the road on either side of the intersection doesn't have room for this, I take the lane and get in line.
04-15-05, 01:34 AM
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Wow, most of you guys are nice. If there are two lanes lined up with the lights I go between the lanes iof stopped cars, and try to hit the intersection at speed as the light goes green. As I approach I keep a keen eye out for those who are running late through a red light, then cut across the lane to the kerb. Works all the time so far
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