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-   -   Bicycle commuting is a bad goal ? (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/993949-bicycle-commuting-bad-goal.html)

spare_wheel 02-21-15 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by Gresp15C (Post 17573674)
Amusingly, this is probably the first time since it was made in 1982, that anybody has accused the owner of this bike of following a "subculture," or of having any aesthetic sensibilities whatsoever. I'm flattered. ;)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435400


Gresp15c, Glad you took my mini-rant as it was intended. Your bike is quite aesthetically pleasing. I find bikes that have been iconoclastically optimized for an individual's use to be beautiful.

wphamilton 02-21-15 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by Gresp15C (Post 17573421)
Ah, now I'm going to put the pressure on you. ;)

Really, this isn't directed at you, but it does raise an interesting question: Once we have "won" the commuting debate, then it will be time to address other possible bike uses that are "commuting" in the sense that they have a specific destination or utilitarian purpose.

One thing for me is that if I drive, then it's a chore, but if I hop on my bike, then the fun begins immediately. Also, I've found that if I choose my route carefully, some shopping areas are actually more bike friendly than car friendly, especially as I can park my bike right in front of each shop.

Get a shopping bike: One that you can ride in your street clothes, park anywhere (kick stand), not worry about getting stolen, and load with crap. I prefer baskets over panniers for shopping, but whatever. It's always good to have one more bike anyway.

I did a good bit of that, for about four years when I was car-free. I still take a bike some times. But a mile and a half, or two miles, doesn't make that much of a ride. It seems easier to hop in a car for those, than for the commute. It also isn't as significant in the larger scheme of replacing autos on the road, not for a regular commuter. That's another thing I think that the article has wrong.

Gresp15C 02-21-15 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by spare_wheel (Post 17573945)
Gresp15c, Glad you took my mini-rant as it was intended. Your bike is quite aesthetically pleasing. I find bikes that have been iconoclastically optimized for an individual's use to be beautiful.

Thanks. ;)

Gresp15C 02-21-15 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by wphamilton (Post 17573960)
I did a good bit of that, for about four years when I was car-free. I still take a bike some times. But a mile and a half, or two miles, doesn't make that much of a ride. It seems easier to hop in a car for those, than for the commute. It also isn't as significant in the larger scheme of replacing autos on the road, not for a regular commuter. That's another thing I think that the article has wrong.

Good points. In terms of sheer miles, etc., nothing compares to commuting.

For me, I'm so close to the nearby shops, that I can just walk, and actually get more exercise than riding. But I still enjoy hopping on the bike.

Our car use is pretty much narrowed down to a big shopping trip every few weeks to load up on non perishables at a particular store with really low prices, carrying heavy loads when needed, and "activities." The kids are in music and sports, and I play in a band.

CrankyOne 02-22-15 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by tjspiel (Post 17573519)
I also believe that of those people that own bikes that are in reasonable condition and that fit them, their bikes are more than likely appropriate for commutes up to 10 miles or more. Some minor changes might be required.

Good list. I think safety is likely number one for the majority of people, the others vary in priority from person to person.

As to a bike fit for the purpose I'm thinking more along the lines of having a full chaincase and fenders so they don't have to worry about grease/gook getting on them, having an easy way to carry stuff, and something that is comfortable in normal clothes (e.g., upright, not leaning forward). Using myself as an example, I typically wear nice jeans, leather belt, oxford or mock turtle, maybe a sweater, Sperry or better shoes, maybe a sport coat or heavier depending on weather. I can easily ride any of our Dutch bikes like this very comfortably. Riding a hybrid, mountain, or road bike in these is much more difficult (roll up pants legs, ideally put on some kind of gator to reduce grease problems), and leaning over much at all in jeans with a leather belt is not overly comfortable for many people and you'll sweat more.

randallovelace 02-22-15 07:53 PM

I have several concerns when commuting, though safety is rather low on that list. My ride is rather longish, and at hours when no help is readily available, and even if it was - would be hard to reach me. The bicycle trail I ride (West Orange Trail - between Clarcona-Ocoee Road and Old Downtown Winter Garden has many parts with little to no road access points. I'm more concerned about breakdowns, such as a mechanical failure or flat (currently have no spare tubes, and changing a tire in the pitch black would be trying at best). I have sections of my ride that are rather nice, but the late hour usually means that they are very desolate.

tjspiel 02-22-15 10:27 PM


Originally Posted by CrankyOne (Post 17576383)
As to a bike fit for the purpose I'm thinking more along the lines of having a full chaincase and fenders so they don't have to worry about grease/gook getting on them, having an easy way to carry stuff, and something that is comfortable in normal clothes (e.g., upright, not leaning forward). Using myself as an example, I typically wear nice jeans, leather belt, oxford or mock turtle, maybe a sweater, Sperry or better shoes, maybe a sport coat or heavier depending on weather. I can easily ride any of our Dutch bikes like this very comfortably. Riding a hybrid, mountain, or road bike in these is much more difficult (roll up pants legs, ideally put on some kind of gator to reduce grease problems), and leaning over much at all in jeans with a leather belt is not overly comfortable for many people and you'll sweat more.

I was pretty sure that I knew what you were thinking. ;)

To me unless the rider has some pretty specific needs there are multiple bikes suited for the purpose of basic transportation. Different styles of bikes have different tradeoffs and I would guess that no single type is going to please everyone, - even when it comes to comfort.

Some people would probably prefer that upright posture seen on Dutch bikes even for longer distances, but lots of people wouldn't. My evidence? Observe how people actually sit when there is no back support available. Folks may sit upright for awhile, but most will shift around quite a bit and spend a lot of time leaning forward using their arms and elbows for support.

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6901253_f520.jpg

Many recommendations for proper posture at a desk IS to sit up straight but that is with both back and arms supported.

As for the other characteristics of Dutch bikes, some will be highly desirable while others may count against it. Who wants to lug something like that up a flight a stairs or lift it on to the rack in front of bus? To some people that will make a Dutch bike very inconvenient.

Lastly there is personal preference and style. The most comfortable and cushy ride isn't always the most desirable trait for everyone or what's going to get them to ride.

I'm just curious. What is it about riding upright that makes one sweat less? That seems counter-intuitive. An upright posture makes for poor aerodynamics. That means you're either working harder to go the same speed or you're moving slower for the same level of effort, - which means reduced air flow around your body. However, I doubt it makes much difference when we're talking about hybrids or english bikes vs dutch bikes.

CrankyOne 02-23-15 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by tjspiel (Post 17577121)
I'm just curious. What is it about riding upright that makes one sweat less? That seems counter-intuitive.

I clarified it only because I also thought you could think I was referring to all of the folks who have bikes in their garage with flat tires, derailleurs extremely out of whack, or other problems. I agree with most or all of what you said BTW. However, sitting in bleachers I may look much like the folks in your photo yet I'm comfortable riding all day on an upright.

Leaning forward creates skin folds which cannot naturally cool as exposed skin can. This causes a bit of extra heat throughout your body but also within the folds you overheat quite a bit. Also, when you sit upright you have greater 'wind exposure' vs being aerodynamic so upright may cool you better from this aspect as well.

Personally, I tend to also ride a bit harder on a road or hybrid than on a Dutchie.


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