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Interesting study re: Going hard and your immune system...

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Interesting study re: Going hard and your immune system...

Old 03-10-20, 06:03 PM
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Interesting study re: Going hard and your immune system...

We're all trying to prop up our immune systems as much as possible now for obvious reasons. From 2 years ago, but very interesting I thought:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0420122807.htm
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Old 03-10-20, 09:18 PM
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Am I the only one that thought this was about ED? lol
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Old 03-10-20, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Am I the only one that thought this was about ED? lol
Well, I suppose it's all related!

I just thought it was interesting - conventional wisdom has for some time had us believe we essentially have to err on the side of not over-doing it or we're gonna get sick from getting run-down. Many factors of course. But the stuff about the cells going on the hunt was pretty intriguing....
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Old 03-11-20, 02:24 AM
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It's been quite awhile since my marathon/ultra running days, but it seems to me there was more to this than just lab observations. Pretty sure there was also some farily reasonable clinical data that these runners had higher rates of some illnesses, as well. Haven't reviewed it in forever, though. Asthma was one of those illnesses, as I recall. One recent study showed higher rates of different types of coronary artery disease in longterm marathoners than in sedentary people, for whatever bizarre reason. Probably, something to do with study design...
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Old 03-11-20, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Am I the only one that thought this was about ED? lol
Yes, you almost certainly were.
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Old 03-11-20, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
It's been quite awhile since my marathon/ultra running days, but it seems to me there was more to this than just lab observations. Pretty sure there was also some farily reasonable clinical data that these runners had higher rates of some illnesses, as well. Haven't reviewed it in forever, though. Asthma was one of those illnesses, as I recall. One recent study showed higher rates of different types of coronary artery disease in longterm marathoners than in sedentary people, for whatever bizarre reason. Probably, something to do with study design...
I also think it's a lot more complicated than simply getting sick because of being in groups. Solo athletes also experience increased rates of illness from overtraining.

The thing about CAD: what's been shown is that the calcium scores of long-time endurance athletes are higher than those of many sedentary people. The mechanism is not known. However it is known that this plaque is of a different sort, quite hard and unlikely to break loose and cause a heart attack. Current advice is to ignore calcium score if you're an athlete.
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Old 03-11-20, 11:05 AM
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I never suspected that fairly intense endurance exercises / activity would cause a downturn in the bodies immune system as opposed to help it. The most interesting part of the article (to me) is the reason why some thought it did e.g. athletes got sick after marathons so therefor...

I participate in a couple of charity rides each year and I got fairly ill afterward once. If you think about the close proximity to everyone, the very heavy breathing and I've been spit upon a few times as well so its not a surprise. I'll second the notion about sleep, whenever there's a big ride it starts very early so I have to get up at like 4:00AM. When I set an alarm for that early and have a big event it's a perfect recipe for not being able to sleep but you get up drive an hour or so and work very hard for 5 hours anyway. Good post BTW.

From the article:
First, attending any event where there is a large gathering of people, increases your chance of infection. Second, public transport, particularly airline travel over long distances, where sleep is disrupted, may also increase your infection risk. Other factors, like eating an inadequate diet, getting cold and wet, and psychological stress, have all been linked to a greater chance of developing infections.
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Old 03-11-20, 11:47 AM
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Studies aside, I know how it worked for me. I'd seldom get sick, but when I did it often followed an especially intense martial arts class. An hour and a half at full intensity, with only a few moments between drills or sparring partners for heart rate and breathing to recover. I seldom got sick after cycling, even when it was a hammer fest group ride or longer distance than I was used to.
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Old 03-11-20, 12:11 PM
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With apologies to Samuel Clemens, "There are lies, and there are damned lies, and then there are statistics.
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Old 03-11-20, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
With apologies to Samuel Clemens, "There are lies, and there are damned lies, and then there are statistics.
Itís not even statistics really it is a meta-study. Which I always view suspiciously, because they arenít really doing new research.
But the other factors (traveling to events, close proximities to other competitors, eating away from home) are bigger factors for getting ill.
So stay distant and stay safe.
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Old 03-11-20, 08:39 PM
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Yeah, meta-studies have been eyed with suspicion the past few years. I'm not sure they automatically lack credibility, but it's probably something that needs to be evaluated case by case.

Also, I doubt we can extrapolate from a study of marathon runners the effects of strenuous physical effort on cyclists who participate in the big three grueling 3-week grand tours, and possibly one-week stage races and intense one-day classics. I suspect that this year we'll see pro cyclists being much more cautious than usual and limiting themselves to one grand tour, assuming the COVID-19 pandemic is under control by the summer grand tour season. After the Eddy Merckx era, fewer cyclists participated in two or all three grand tours in a single year. Participants are coming in younger, fresher and stronger, so it's even tougher for an elite cyclist to participate in a Merckx-type schedule and hope to do well.

Stress, anxiety, chronic pain, and other factors less easy to measure may also be factors in leaving us vulnerable to injury and/or illness from strenuous exercise. Those factors tend to interfere with sleep, another factor in vulnerability to illness.

With my age and health I have to consider whether I'm good to work out 5 days a week. I'm much more cautious, more methodical about workouts and pay a lot more attention to data, including blood pressure, heart rate, HRV, etc. I noticed my most recent lab tests were mostly normal, but my monocytes were elevated. I've been experiencing chronic inflammation, partly related to seasonal allergies, partly due to an auto-immune disorder that occasionally flares up in various types of inflammation -- joints, skin, etc. My usual prescription NSAID doesn't seem to be doing the trick, so last week I bought a bottle of aspirin for the first time in years and have been taking two 325 mg aspirin twice a day. Almost immediately I noticed relief from sinus inflammation and even a gum inflammation that started a couple of weeks ago after scraping the gums with a new toothbrush. I had stopped using aspirin years ago because it didn't seem to do anything, but recently it appears to be helping.
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Old 03-12-20, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Yeah, meta-studies have been eyed with suspicion the past few years. I'm not sure they automatically lack credibility, but it's probably something that needs to be evaluated case by case.

Also, I doubt we can extrapolate from a study of marathon runners the effects of strenuous physical effort on cyclists who participate in the big three grueling 3-week grand tours, and possibly one-week stage races and intense one-day classics. I suspect that this year we'll see pro cyclists being much more cautious than usual and limiting themselves to one grand tour, assuming the COVID-19 pandemic is under control by the summer grand tour season. After the Eddy Merckx era, fewer cyclists participated in two or all three grand tours in a single year. Participants are coming in younger, fresher and stronger, so it's even tougher for an elite cyclist to participate in a Merckx-type schedule and hope to do well.

Stress, anxiety, chronic pain, and other factors less easy to measure may also be factors in leaving us vulnerable to injury and/or illness from strenuous exercise. Those factors tend to interfere with sleep, another factor in vulnerability to illness.

With my age and health I have to consider whether I'm good to work out 5 days a week. I'm much more cautious, more methodical about workouts and pay a lot more attention to data, including blood pressure, heart rate, HRV, etc. I noticed my most recent lab tests were mostly normal, but my monocytes were elevated. I've been experiencing chronic inflammation, partly related to seasonal allergies, partly due to an auto-immune disorder that occasionally flares up in various types of inflammation -- joints, skin, etc. My usual prescription NSAID doesn't seem to be doing the trick, so last week I bought a bottle of aspirin for the first time in years and have been taking two 325 mg aspirin twice a day. Almost immediately I noticed relief from sinus inflammation and even a gum inflammation that started a couple of weeks ago after scraping the gums with a new toothbrush. I had stopped using aspirin years ago because it didn't seem to do anything, but recently it appears to be helping.
Glad it is working for you. I've been taking 325 mg of aspirin every day for 35 years. Went to a talk by a very smart guy from the NIH, an aspirin researcher, when I was in medical school. Long ago. He presented pretty much everything he/we knew at the time and I decided I was just going to do it. For several reasons, not just cardiac. Despite any of the studies saying we perhaps should not be doing aspirin this way, I have decided I am just going to stick with it. Well aware there are many different opinions on this. We shall see what happens...
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Old 03-12-20, 06:20 AM
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all studies/statistics can and should be questioned, but that doesn't make all studies or statistics wrong. Seems to me that common sense would suggest that exercise of any kind would be good for your immune system, though I have no stats to back that statement up.
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Old 03-12-20, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
all studies/statistics can and should be questioned, but that doesn't make all studies or statistics wrong. Seems to me that common sense would suggest that exercise of any kind would be good for your immune system, though I have no stats to back that statement up.
I'm sure there's gobs of stats going back quite a ways out there to back up exercise being good for one's immune system.
As for this idea from the study that strenuous exercise might not actually run you down(as also has been conventional wisdom for some time), but instead trigger these immune cells into action, and they move around the body to fight infection--I just find that very interesting.
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Old 03-12-20, 01:39 PM
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If you have a couple of hours to kill:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5911985/
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Old 03-12-20, 08:20 PM
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Interested in beefing up your 50+ yr old immune system? Look into Prolon Fasting Mimicking diet.
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