Cycling is an essential activity under SF Bay Are shelter-in place order
03-17-20, 12:00 PM
#26
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03-17-20, 01:32 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by daoswald
Bicycling is seen as a mode of transportation capable of taking a person between communities. Walking is generally within a community. Hiking is a gray area; you might drive to a trailhead and then hike, or you might hike local hills within your own community if you live near them.
The thing about bicycling, and the reason, I presume, that it is disallowed in areas where they have disallowed it, is that a person could hop on their bike in a safe community, ride to an infected community, visit someone who is sick, or visit a store in a hot-spot area, and then bring it back home with them to their safe community. It's the same reason travelling has been greatly restricted; not so that an individual avoids getting infected, but so that an individual avoids infecting a community that had previously been in the clear.
I am 100% certain that if you go do your 25 mile loop each day you stand no chance of spreading infection. And if that's your routine, it's unfortunate that the edict has restricted that safe activity. But the harm comes if someone uses their bike to get to and from a destination and transmits disease either from an infected community to a clean one, or vice versa. It's the stops along the way and at the destination that have the potential to cause harm. And this is probably the reason restrictions have been implemented. In the rush to implement well-intentioned restrictions, safe activities are being caught in the dragnet. This is an imprecise yet calculated response. Imprecise because it affects people doing things that are probably safe. Calculated because it's been decided that catching some safe activities is a worthwhile tradeoff in order to catch many unsafe ones at a time where the risk on the one side is you miss a month of training, and the risk on the other side is a community gets infected and some people die.
The thing about bicycling, and the reason, I presume, that it is disallowed in areas where they have disallowed it, is that a person could hop on their bike in a safe community, ride to an infected community, visit someone who is sick, or visit a store in a hot-spot area, and then bring it back home with them to their safe community. It's the same reason travelling has been greatly restricted; not so that an individual avoids getting infected, but so that an individual avoids infecting a community that had previously been in the clear.
I am 100% certain that if you go do your 25 mile loop each day you stand no chance of spreading infection. And if that's your routine, it's unfortunate that the edict has restricted that safe activity. But the harm comes if someone uses their bike to get to and from a destination and transmits disease either from an infected community to a clean one, or vice versa. It's the stops along the way and at the destination that have the potential to cause harm. And this is probably the reason restrictions have been implemented. In the rush to implement well-intentioned restrictions, safe activities are being caught in the dragnet. This is an imprecise yet calculated response. Imprecise because it affects people doing things that are probably safe. Calculated because it's been decided that catching some safe activities is a worthwhile tradeoff in order to catch many unsafe ones at a time where the risk on the one side is you miss a month of training, and the risk on the other side is a community gets infected and some people die.
So we have to suck it up to be good citizens once in our lifetime? Is that a big deal?
Ben
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03-17-20, 01:48 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
(Reply moved to Politics and Restrooms Sub-Forum)
It's too bad that this one topic has taken over every single discussion, and completely sucked all of the air out of the room everywhere for the last couple weeks. We need a COVID-19-Free Zone, where no discussions of the topic are allowed, maybe the BMX or Living Car Free Forum or something.
It's too bad that this one topic has taken over every single discussion, and completely sucked all of the air out of the room everywhere for the last couple weeks. We need a COVID-19-Free Zone, where no discussions of the topic are allowed, maybe the BMX or Living Car Free Forum or something.
My only concern about the bf posts is that some of them seem a bit ill-informed, but those tend to get corrected in due course.
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03-17-20, 02:03 PM
#29
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This article just popped up on SFGate:
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...r-15137490.php
A quote from the article:"Biking is OK since it maintains social distancing," Andy Lynch, a spokesperson for San Francisco Mayor London Breed's office, said. "You can do it for exercise or essential needs. But it's the same policy for other outdoor activities. Yes, people should exercise for mental and physical health, but they should maintain social distance of at least six feet from others and not do it in a group. You should wash your hands after the activity."
Lynch added that if you go on a bike ride with another person, it should be someone you're self-quarantining with at home. If it's a person outside your household, you should maintain a distance of six feet.
So, this person is saying cycling for exercise is OK as long as you maintain social distancing.
Granted, this spokesperson is from San Francisco and can only really speak to how that city is enforcing it, but I'm guessing the same should go for those of us in neighboring counties.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...r-15137490.php
A quote from the article:"Biking is OK since it maintains social distancing," Andy Lynch, a spokesperson for San Francisco Mayor London Breed's office, said. "You can do it for exercise or essential needs. But it's the same policy for other outdoor activities. Yes, people should exercise for mental and physical health, but they should maintain social distance of at least six feet from others and not do it in a group. You should wash your hands after the activity."
Lynch added that if you go on a bike ride with another person, it should be someone you're self-quarantining with at home. If it's a person outside your household, you should maintain a distance of six feet.
So, this person is saying cycling for exercise is OK as long as you maintain social distancing.
Granted, this spokesperson is from San Francisco and can only really speak to how that city is enforcing it, but I'm guessing the same should go for those of us in neighboring counties.
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03-17-20, 02:20 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I understand your frustration, but I also respectfully disagree. This seems urgent enough that it should dominate much of our daily discourse. It's certainly more urgent than another thread about disc vs rim brakes.
My only concern about the bf posts is that some of them seem a bit ill-informed, but those tend to get corrected in due course.
My only concern about the bf posts is that some of them seem a bit ill-informed, but those tend to get corrected in due course.
It's only a direct threat to our lives, our loved ones, our health, our freedom and our livelihoods. It's only curtailing a major portion of our choices every single day. Why would anyone be obsessed with that?
Seriously, how the hell do you not talk about it all day? Just keeping up with the rules of living is a full-time job right now.
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03-17-20, 02:44 PM
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i live in the east bay / smaller / hilly city -- so i actually emailed the local police to see what they thought of it (after all - i'll just be riding my local hills -- and the local PD's opinion is the only opinion i really need here)
they wrote back telling me...... "As long as it is for exercise. Sgt. XXXXXX"
so i just went and rode - and I saw a few other cyclist out as well -- and a lot of people taking walks
your results may vary
they wrote back telling me...... "As long as it is for exercise. Sgt. XXXXXX"
so i just went and rode - and I saw a few other cyclist out as well -- and a lot of people taking walks
your results may vary
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03-17-20, 04:09 PM
#32
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My problem is I don't ride on roads (too dangerous) but always drive to a trail within our county. So I wonder if the driving part makes it a problem?
03-17-20, 05:28 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by 2cam16
My problem is I don't ride on roads (too dangerous) but always drive to a trail within our county. So I wonder if the driving part makes it a problem?
But also, if you are driving-to-ride, I’d imagine it shouldn’t be an issue as long as you’re only sharing the car with people you also live with, and you’re keeping your distance from other Trail users.
03-17-20, 06:19 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Leinster
I would say that there should be reduced traffic at this time, so riding to the trailhead should be significantly safer?
But also, if you are driving-to-ride, I’d imagine it shouldn’t be an issue as long as you’re only sharing the car with people you also live with, and you’re keeping your distance from other Trail users.
But also, if you are driving-to-ride, I’d imagine it shouldn’t be an issue as long as you’re only sharing the car with people you also live with, and you’re keeping your distance from other Trail users.
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/Dis...er-031620.aspx
5. All travel, including, but not limited to, travel on foot, bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, automobile, or public transit, except Essential Travel and Essential Activities as defined below in Section 10, is prohibited.
...
10. Definitions and Exemptions.
...
h. For the purposes of this Order, "Essential Travel" includes travel for any of the following purposes. Individuals engaged in any Essential Travel must comply with all Social Distancing Requirements as defined in this Section below.
i. Any travel related to the provision of or access to Essential Activities, Essential Governmental Functions, Essential Businesses, or Minimum Basic Operations
...
10. Definitions and Exemptions.
...
h. For the purposes of this Order, "Essential Travel" includes travel for any of the following purposes. Individuals engaged in any Essential Travel must comply with all Social Distancing Requirements as defined in this Section below.
i. Any travel related to the provision of or access to Essential Activities, Essential Governmental Functions, Essential Businesses, or Minimum Basic Operations
03-17-20, 06:48 PM
#35
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The only riding that's discouraged are group rides. Coffee shops are closed so what's the purpose of a group ride anyway?
03-17-20, 06:54 PM
#36
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I happened to see the ex-gov Arnold comment on Instagram that it's a curfew on older people in California. He claims he is staying home, feeding carrots to his pet donkeys, except for when he is riding his bike solo.
Went riding today with my wife. About an hour, and we rode the local bike paths which had more traffic than usual for a chilly weekday, families walking about, School closed. No one working. Held my breath whenever we passed others.
Went riding today with my wife. About an hour, and we rode the local bike paths which had more traffic than usual for a chilly weekday, families walking about, School closed. No one working. Held my breath whenever we passed others.
03-18-20, 02:14 AM
#37
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I think this thread is getting too caught up in the exact wording of the laws, and a little less in how the laws will be implemented.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/...e-enforcement/
It sounds like as long as you're not in a 30-strong peloton, rubbing elbows and nose to seat, the various PDs in the Bay will let you carry on with your exercise, be it on wheels, on foot, or with animals. We're not yet at the stage of overflowing hospitals like Italy or Spain, so there's no real fear of diverting resources from anyone who needs them, for the time being.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/...e-enforcement/
With a sweeping stay-at-home order in effect across the Bay Area to try to slow the spread of coronavirus, businesses that stay open and people who are out and about during the next three weeks for anything other than an “essential” task or function are, technically, subject to a misdemeanor citation under the California Health and Safety Code.
In reality, that is far from how the order will be enforced, according to numerous local law-enforcement officials. For starters, there are an array of allowances and circumstances for who can be out and why— including walking the dog, or going on a hike or bike ride, as long as there is social distancing — it would be difficult to quickly discern a violation.
“This isn’t martial law. There are so many exceptions to this quarantine, to think an officer is going to proactively stop people who are out, and go through a myriad of questions, is absolutely not realistic,” said San Jose police Chief Eddie Garcia, whose department patrols the Bay Area’s largest city. “If anyone thinks someone is going to jail just based on this, that’s not happening. No one’s going to jail over this.”
Law-enforcement agencies are generally aligned on this point. San Francisco police Chief William Scott said Monday that SFPD is taking a “common-sense” approach and that a misdemeanor citation “is an absolute last resort.” San Mateo police issued a public bulletin stating that “education will be our primary goal, leaving enforcement as our last option,” and San Mateo County Sheriff’s Lt. Stephanie Josephson said officers will be “interested in talking to people to gain voluntary compliance.”
In reality, that is far from how the order will be enforced, according to numerous local law-enforcement officials. For starters, there are an array of allowances and circumstances for who can be out and why— including walking the dog, or going on a hike or bike ride, as long as there is social distancing — it would be difficult to quickly discern a violation.
“This isn’t martial law. There are so many exceptions to this quarantine, to think an officer is going to proactively stop people who are out, and go through a myriad of questions, is absolutely not realistic,” said San Jose police Chief Eddie Garcia, whose department patrols the Bay Area’s largest city. “If anyone thinks someone is going to jail just based on this, that’s not happening. No one’s going to jail over this.”
Law-enforcement agencies are generally aligned on this point. San Francisco police Chief William Scott said Monday that SFPD is taking a “common-sense” approach and that a misdemeanor citation “is an absolute last resort.” San Mateo police issued a public bulletin stating that “education will be our primary goal, leaving enforcement as our last option,” and San Mateo County Sheriff’s Lt. Stephanie Josephson said officers will be “interested in talking to people to gain voluntary compliance.”
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03-18-20, 06:20 AM
#38
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In Philadelphia, bike shops are now considered essential services.
03-18-20, 06:59 AM
#39
C*pt*i* Obvious
We can ride with impunity in Shanghai at the moment. (which I'm a bit wary of currently, especially alone)
The second wave of infections are imminent as lockdowns are being lifted, its certain that all new cases will be blamed on "outside forces"
Self quarantine will never be 100% effective, yet almost all of the alternatives aren't very humane.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The second wave of infections are imminent as lockdowns are being lifted, its certain that all new cases will be blamed on "outside forces"
Self quarantine will never be 100% effective, yet almost all of the alternatives aren't very humane.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
03-18-20, 11:32 AM
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My niece is in the health care industry. She says that something people are not considering is that there are only a certain number of intensive care beds in each hospital. those beds are not just for patients of this latest virus but will also be needed for victims of accidents, heart attacks and other non-virus related emergencies. those other emergencies aren't stopping just because there's this new virus going around.
Stay safe people.
Cheers
Stay safe people.
Cheers
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03-18-20, 11:57 AM
#42
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Miele Man
My niece is in the health care industry. She says that something people are not considering is that there are only a certain number of intensive care beds in each hospital. those beds are not just for patients of this latest virus but will also be needed for victims of accidents, heart attacks and other non-virus related emergencies. those other emergencies aren't stopping just because there's this new virus going around.
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...bicycling.html
and here :
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ic/5032523002/
and in your country here:
https://nationalpost.com/news/who-ge...verwhelms-icus
etc, etc...
Last edited by Jicafold; 03-18-20 at 12:04 PM.
03-18-20, 12:39 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman
When the 1% get off their selfish, bloated backsides and learn to SHARE, the impoverished will disappear....
They already have enough stacked against them.... Extend sympathy from your relatively safe homes... they haven't one.
They already have enough stacked against them.... Extend sympathy from your relatively safe homes... they haven't one.
I am thankful they give as much as they do. They pay far more taxes than I do, so who am I to complain. What kind of condition would our cycling infrastructure be like without them?
03-18-20, 02:38 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
I am thankful they give as much as they do. They pay far more taxes than I do, so who am I to complain. What kind of condition would our cycling infrastructure be like without them?
Donald Trump proclaimed during the first presidential debate of 2016 that not paying federal taxes made him "smart." https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-taxes-smart/
03-18-20, 05:00 PM
#45
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I took a short 18-mile spin through the Oakland hills on my "lunch break" today, and I saw a lot more cyclists out than I normally would on a weekday afternoon, and far fewer cars. More folks out strolling as well (and the parking lot for a popular trailhead in the hills was packed, which is also not normal for a weekday). I will try to get in as much riding as I can in case they decide to strengthen the rules of the shelter-in-place order.
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03-18-20, 06:05 PM
#46
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I had an enjoyable ride this afternoon with my doctor friend who has been working at University hospital here. She has been working her butt off in a high pressure environment. She needed the stress relief that social distancing on two wheels provides.
03-18-20, 07:31 PM
#47
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I’m a surgical technologist. Got out for a ride today, because we canceled all surgery. Glad I did. When I came home, there was an alert that we are now under “shelter at home”. It does seem to allow solo riding though.
It was pretty eerie, writing to my favorite beach front. Everything closed, patios empty very few people.
It was pretty eerie, writing to my favorite beach front. Everything closed, patios empty very few people.
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03-18-20, 07:49 PM
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Do you need a note from your doctor to go see your doctor 👩⚕️ ?
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03-18-20, 08:21 PM
#49
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I think cycling is going to be a lot safer than normal
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03-18-20, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
Do you need a note from your doctor to go see your doctor 👩⚕️ ?
Cheers
