wolfchild

I agree that during times like these people shouldn't be allowed to go on cruises, travel for pleasure and go on vacations etc and it's a good thing that governments have banned all forms of non-essential travel... but people shouldn't be prevented from going to work, running their small business or going outdoors solo to get some exercise.

SHBR

Cruises?

I'll pass.

Maelochs

Hmmmm. here is the thing .... if you run a small business you have to either work with a crew of others, and or/sell to people. Which means, a lot of close-range contact with a large number of people throughout each working day. Plus you need supplies, so you need to get in contact with other people and they have to come into contact with other people.

Business that is done from home is fine. Online sales are fine. But bringing large numbers of people together in small spaces increases the risk of contamination. And unless the business is online or completely remote, then there are going to be multiple customer contacts, which sends the contamination out into the populace, which is exactly what will worsen the pandemic.

"Social distancing" doesn't work if you have to get close to people to work .... and not many small businesses (I think the definition is "fifty employees or fewer") are one person working in a shop.

Pretty much All contact has to be minimized. It isn't like you can catch the virus at a sporting event but not in a factory.

And while I am not sure where you live ( I know Spain had an anti-cycling law) I have been taking advantage of the extra time to get more miles in.

I pretty much agree with you except----the "draconian" rules are in p[lace because of idiots. if we were all really careful and we really didn't want to infect anyone, we could do a whole bunch of stuff, even in public, and still keep containment. But there are always those people ---some who have been posting here----who are absolutely unconcerned with the well-being of others and who basically ruin it for the rest of us.

I don't like big government, and I don't like the government telling people how to live----but if people are so stupid they are willing to kill others carelessly, I will tolerate a little government intervention until this thing passes.

SHBR

A "little government intervention", famous last words.

wgscott

With SARS (a very similar beta-coronavirus with about 80% overall sequence homology and similar mode of spreading), aerosols generated from faulty plumbing were implicated as being one mode of transmission.

The prudent thing to do is to err on the side of caution.

Maelochs

Dude----the "prudent" thing to do is to buy a three-year supply of toilet paper. Three hundred million Americans can't be wrong ....... (or could they?)

wolfchild

It started with toilet paper hoarding and now people are also hoarding over the counter medications. I went to a Wallmart superstore this morning and there wasn't even one bottle of Tylenol, Advil, Buckcley's, Aspirin or any other brands left in the store, the shelves were empty. I also investigated a supplement section just to see what was there and every bottle of Vitamin C was sold out. I have never seen such shopping frenzy before.

Maelochs

Sort of surprised tinfoil isn't sold out.

wgscott

There are anecdotal reports (I think from France) that Ibuprofen causes complications. I did buy a bottle of acetominophen (tylenol) for that reason.

mstateglfr 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-be9337092b56

Read this. Actually take 30min and read it. There are even a lot of graphs so you can cheat and not actually read the article.

Yes, this is going to seriously affect the US economy and global economies.
The alternative is tens of millions dying.

What is unacceptable is a ruined economy AND millions dead because not enough was done to prevent.
There is do nothing which will cause tens of millions to die there is mitigaton(social distancing) which is projected to just delay the inevitable same result of doing nothing, and there is suppression which will lower the number of dead.

All will destroy an economy. If nothing is done- tens of millions die and an economy is without vital producers. If mitigation is done- the same number die and there is months of uncertainty. If suppression is done- businesses fail and people are broke due to being out of work.

One of those 3 wont result in millions dead though. I choose that approach.

mstateglfr 

I'm glad I didnt come upon this thread earlier. This is classic mtbaddict right here.
Of course you dont trust disease experts. Typical you.

Maelochs

Question: which group of people are most likely to infect the greatest number of other people?

Answer: Self proclaimed tinfoil-hat "experts" who know they don't know anything but won't admit it to themselves, refuse to read actual research, and deny anything which clashes with their preconceived and totally eroneous notions, despite all the evidence from all over the world.

You know who you are .... but sadly, we only know your online personalities. I hope I don't meet any of you in real life.

AndreyT

"Look at the positive side: at least this pandemic taught people to remember to properly wash their hands. And to do that often.

Come to think of it, let's make the next pandemic about turn signals. Say, every time one forgets to properly use their turn signal they... um.. they get a raging unstoppable attack of diarrhea! Although in USA this will make toilet paper to disappear from store shelves again..."

SHBR

For entertainment purposes only:

wolfchild

Complete lockdowns are not sustainable long term and it will do more harm than good to the economy and the entire population. Governments need to come up with a better strategy. They should only be targeting people who already have the symptoms and people who are in a higher risk category, you can't just put an entire population or an entire city under one massive house arrest and then threated them with fines and jail...The middle class and poorer class who live paycheque to paycheque and smaller businesses will suffer the most and the economic damage will take very long time to recover...Just yesterday one of our very popular conservation parks which is used for hiking and mountain biking has been shut down all because of few individuals who were breaking the social distancing rules and some were parking illegally and entering the park without paying. I don't think it was necessary to close an entire park, all they had to do was to enforce the rules and target those few irresponsible individuals who were breaking the rules.

Maelochs

Yeah, because losing several million citizens is better than losing several million dollars.
has the fact that people can spread the disease for about five days without showing symptoms not passed by you yet? Or have you just let it go right by without paying attention? By the time someone has shown symptoms, he or she has been spreading the virus for about a week.
I am not a doctor, but I think dead people take even longer to recover .... However things like mortgage payment moratoriums and benefit payments ....the government is Trying to ease the pain. But since this sia GLOBAL situation (please do try to think on the actual scale, not just what you see in your neighborhood) the economic impact is going to be ....w ell, Global. The cost of the CCP letting this disease spread is going to be monumental. Of course the poor will get it worst. That is the society we have built. Hopefully, possibly, we will learn some lessons and rebuild in a more equitable manner. Now multiply this by the entire nation, and imagine how many police it would take just to keep idiots from undermining the entire quarantine program. And thosepolice officers would then be at risk.

To me this sounds like one person whining because his local park was shut down. Weigh that against people whose family members have died because of some idiot who said "I'm not high-risk, screw the old folk."

This situation straight-up sucks .... but we built a house of cards and decided to tell each other it was a steel and glass skyscraper. Now we all see that we are vulnerable, and everyone is freaking out because fantasy has met reality.

Most smart people Always have a couple weeks' supplies of stuff on hand, just in case. Most smart people aren't overextended on credit. Most smart people recognize that nature is a huge and powerful force, and coupled with human stupidity, willful ignorance, and greed, is almost irresistible.

Yet, most people are not smart. And while it is sad, everything has to be aimed at the lowest common denominator. You cannot have a quarantine which affects all but the stupidest five percent, because that five percent will spread the disease to everyone else. So, harsh rules have to be made.

We are people who lived, compared to almost any era prior to this, lives of unimaginable luxury: heat, a/c, plumbing, electricity, refrigeration, safe, powerful, rapid, and protected transport, safe and solid houses, mostly crime-free streets ..... no raiding war-parties, no deadly predators .... and we took it all for granted.

Now when we still have 90 percent of all that luxury, we are whining.

One hundred fifty years ago, when infectious diseases spread, everybody just Died.

We are whining because we can't go to the local nature preserve.

Daniel4

I wonder what harm there will be if instead of a moratorium on mortgage and loan payments, how about stopping the clock on interest calculations too?

As for the 5% who think this doesn't affect them, isn't that always the case? There's probably only 5% of drivers that are the cause of all the bad driving, collisions and road raging around.

Maelochs

sirjag

thanks for sharing, this is great info...but also depressing. I believe we will see millions of deaths in the USA for this. We simply will not use logic and reason to combat this issue....only faith and ignorance.

JAG

wolfchild

Just to make myself clear, I never said that we should all give up and let millions of people die... I also have older relatives and other family members whom I am worried about..... All I am doing is questioning if the governments extreme response will actually work and stop this pandemic in the long term or will it create more problems than it solves...I also wasn't whining and complaining about nature preserves getting shut down, I just simply posted what I've seen in the local news and then I offered my personal opinion of how I think it should of been handled. When civil liberties are at stake it's time to start asking questions. I am reading all government websites and following all the news and trying to stay informed like everybody else. What I see right now is that nobody has found any proven long term solution to this problem or knows much about this virus because it's all new. It may take 2-3 years to develop a vaccine and then experiment and figure out proper doses for individuals.

crank_addict

Without making statements of political reasoning, one can't help avoid but it irks me, the big shot leaders of major cities and states are grandstanding all over the news, blaring statements the Prez is not doing enough and their constituents can't get mask, etc..

NYC Mayor De Azzwhole and State of ILL Gov Prickster are out doing themselves in the big media, only prepping for a run as 2024 POTUS.

One second click on Google tells the truth where most mask are produced and obviously being hoard.

3M

crank_addict

Waste of time watching, reading, listening to US media. And the bobo CDC. I gave my time to an ABC (Disney) News report, afterwards, clicked the back button. Up came the official CDC info site. I didn't ask for that but wanted to see another vid.

One minute later, they have a full screen pop-up, asking how they're doing!? As if they want me to fill out a survey. Arghhh. Place seems like its run by online game programmers and data mining.

Go straight to the source via internet to other countries and hear firsthand accounts.

Maelochs

Yes most masks are actually produced in or around Wuhan, in a nice touch of irony.

B the Chinese are not Hoarding them. The Chinese, who were smart enough to produce something which might actually have some value, are choosing not to sell their own possessions to other people who spent their money on toys and games and are now screaming for help.

We all have the latest iPhone or Android phone ... and are all at risk for dying of the CCP Virus. We cannot blame anyone else but the CCP .... not the Chinese companies which make masks for their own people.

American companies could have made masks. Americans could have bought Chinese masks for a normal price at any time before the virus broke out.

The Chinese people would e Stupid and Insane to sell all their masks now,. the are Ground Zero and fighting the same disease we are. And they need those masks every bit as much as we do. Why should they sell us Their masks and die, so we can live?

I like how America is all independent and self-reliant----until we find out that really we are all childish and self-indulgent, and then we start blaming everyone else for our bad choices.

Maelochs

Absolutely. Via the internet you can talk to medical personnel form various countries, citizens from around the world who can report on what is actually happening there.

Every news channel is designed not to inform but to make money. every piece of "news" they post or broadcast is part of an agenda, a story they want people to believe, or a story they think their audience will enjoy. information, fact? No part in it at all.

mstateglfr 

Which government are you referring to when you ask if the extreme response will work?