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90 Percent of COVID-19 Patients Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Recover Successfully

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90 Percent of COVID-19 Patients Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Recover Successfully

Old 05-11-20, 03:14 PM
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genec
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90 Percent of COVID-19 Patients Treated With Hydroxychloroquine Recover Successfully

Uh, NO.

On Tuesday, One America News Network reported that, “According to doctors with the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons over 90 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine successfully recover from coronavirus.”
Of course this particular network has been touted by certain folks over and over again... but this "cure" is more likely to kill.

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a non-profit professional association that has campaigned against Obamacare and other universal health care measures as well as opposing federalvaccine mandates, claims that 91.6 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, either with or without zinc, improved clinically. However, it relies on some heavily criticized data to reach this conclusion.

Only a few weeks later on April 3, the journal’s publisher, the International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy, issued
a statement announcing Raoult’s article “does not meet the Society’s expected standard, especially relating to the lack of better explanations of the inclusion criteria and the triage of patients to ensure patient safety.” Among the concerns raised: Out of the 26 patients initially included in the study, three patients were transferred to intensive care after taking a turn for the worse and one died.

...researchers in the VA study reported that patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, sometimes in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, died at a higher rate than those who did not receive drugs. The study reported a mortality rate of 27.8 percent for those treated with hydroxychloroquine; 22.1 percent for hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin; and 11.4 percent for patients who received no drugs.

The
FDA and CDC have consistently cautioned against the use of hydroxychloroquine in treating or preventing coronavirus until more can be learned from clinical studies. The National Institutes of Health similarly warned “There are insufficient clinical data to recommend either for or against using chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19.”
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...id-19-patients
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Old 05-11-20, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Uh, NO.



Of course this particular network has been touted by certain folks over and over again... but this "cure" is more likely to kill.



https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...id-19-patients
To say that 90% of the patients treated with HCL recover successfully sounds odd to me. Isn't the recovery rate nearly that high anyway? Misleading to say the least.

I've been watching the progress of the HCL clinical trials. The results I have seen show that HCL is showing no benefit to those with more serious cases. Some have shown increased fatalities with HCL, but at least some of that that has been attributed to the fact that older and more ill patients received it. For example:

The VA study stated:

"However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin. Nevertheless, the increased risk of overall mortality in the hydroxychloroquine-only group persisted after adjusting for the propensity of being treated with the drug. That there was no increased risk of ventilation in the hydroxychloroquine-only group suggests that mortality in this group might be attributable to drug effects on or dysfunction in non-respiratory vital organ systems. Indeed, hydroxychloroquine use in Covid-19 patients has been associated with cardiac toxicity."
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...920v1.full.pdf

And for another study that also showed increased fatalities when treated with HCL:

"Over a median of 22.5 days, 346 (25.1%) patients had a primary end-point event, with 180 patients being intubated (66 of whom died) and 166 patients dying without intubation. In the unadjusted analysis, patients treated with hydroxychloroquine were more than twice as likely to die or be intubated as those who didn't receive the drug (hazard ratio [HR], 2.37; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.84 to 3.02).But when the researchers adjusted for the fact that hydroxychloroquine patients were sicker, and also accounted for factors such as age, race, body-mass index, and comorbidities, they found no significant association between treatment with hydroxychloroquine and the composite end point (HR, 1.04; 95% CI, 0.82 to 1.32). They also found no significant association between treatment with azithromycin and the composite end point (HR, 1.03; 95% CI, 0.81 to 1.31)."
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...evere-covid-19

That leaves the possibility that it might be effective improving endpoints or reducing treatment duration or recovery duration for patients with less severe disease. This recent publication appears to support that:

https://t.co/HnjOe1YtDl?amp=1.

I think there are still many ongoing clinical trials on this topic. It's hard to find data on this topic without it becoming infected with politics. Is there a good source for summaries of these clinical trials/studies as they results come in?
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Old 05-11-20, 09:41 PM
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If 90% of the people treated with HC recover, the death rate is about 1%, and it isn't a life long infection like AIDS (meaning you either die or recover), then that's a damning claim.
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Old 05-12-20, 03:39 AM
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No real clinical trials have been run... the closest thing to a clinical trial has been the testing the VA did, which showed a higher mortality rate. So ANY clams of positive results are false, based only on hunches and anecdotal claims.

Overall, 346 patients (25.1%) had a primary end-point event (180 patients were intubated, of whom 66 subsequently died, and 166 died without intubation). In the main analysis, there was no significant association between hydroxychloroquine use and intubation or death (hazard ratio, 1.04, 95% confidence interval, 0.82 to 1.32). Results were similar in multiple sensitivity analyses.

CONCLUSIONS

In this observational study involving patients with Covid-19 who had been admitted to the hospital, hydroxychloroquine administration was not associated with either a greatly lowered or an increased risk of the composite end point of intubation or death. Randomized, controlled trials of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19 are needed.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2012410

Last edited by genec; 05-12-20 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 05-12-20, 05:57 AM
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The only reason HCL is being discussed is because one person touted it. He's moved on and eventually everyone else will, too. Real treatments are emerging, thank goodness.
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Old 05-12-20, 06:51 AM
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OANN will repeat whatever Trump tells it to regardless of the factual support.
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Old 05-12-20, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony P. View Post
The only reason HCL is being discussed is because one person touted it. He's moved on and eventually everyone else will, too. Real treatments are emerging, thank goodness.
Ditto that. I've seen that remdesivir looked somewhat promising at first, but by itself, the benefits haven't been earthshaking. What makes the headlines is when a drug shows a "significant" improvement, but that only means it is statistically significant, which can be underwhelming. They are now testing it in combination with other treatments ... hopefully that is more effective.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ovid-19-begins

This looks reasonably promising ...

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/930336
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Old 05-12-20, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony P. View Post
The only reason HCL is being discussed is because one person touted it. He's moved on and eventually everyone else will, too. Real treatments are emerging, thank goodness.
By weight, it's two people.
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Old 05-15-20, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
If 90% of the people treated with HC recover, the death rate is about 1%, and it isn't a life long infection like AIDS (meaning you either die or recover), then that's a damning claim.
Hmmm... So if 99% of those receiving either no treatment or standard supportive treatment recover.

And 90% of those treated with Hydroxychloroquine recover...

What happened to the other 9%?

Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
To say that 90% of the patients treated with HCL recover successfully sounds odd to me.
Is that an official abbreviation?

Definitely not to be confused with HCl (probably safe enough if dilute, but not good to ingest concentrated).
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Old 05-15-20, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Definitely not to be confused with HCl (probably safe enough if dilute, but not good to ingest concentrated).
I don't know, you probably could use HCl as a disinfectant. Maybe you should chase your bleach with it to balance things out and keep it all nice and neutral. A little mustard gas would probably kill the SARS-CoV2, right? If not, at least you won't have to worry about it anymore.
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Old 05-15-20, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I don't know, you probably could use HCl as a disinfectant. Maybe you should chase your bleach with it to balance things out and keep it all nice and neutral. A little mustard gas would probably kill the SARS-CoV2, right? If not, at least you won't have to worry about it anymore.
Lol ... it is not an official abbreviation. It is an attempt to avoid the embarrassment the virtual certainty of me misspelling it.
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Old 05-18-20, 04:11 PM
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Trump is taking it as a preventative.

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Old 05-18-20, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Trump is taking it as a preventative.

I hope he takes a lot.
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Old 05-18-20, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I hope he takes a lot.
Homoeopathic dose? The smaller the dose, the more potent?
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Old 05-19-20, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Homoeopathic dose? The smaller the dose, the more potent?
However much he thinks he needs... I would sure hate to think some doctor is controlling his dose... we all know Donnie knows best. He IS, after all, a "stable genius."

Why I would think he would wash it down with a shot of disenfectant, just to be on the safe side... I wonder what his favorite flavor is... Clorox, or Lysol. Well, either way... it's his choice, he knows best; after all, he had a smart uncle. Go for it Donnie... as much as you want. Chug it.
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Old 05-20-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Trump is taking it as a preventative.
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Old 06-04-20, 06:20 PM
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Authors Retract Hydroxychloroquine Study, Citing Concern Over Data


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Old 06-04-20, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
..., a "stable genius."
...
I don't follow the news very closely. Did 45 say that?
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Old 06-04-20, 07:45 PM
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I had read about this study when it came out ... pretty much nixed HCQ to treat COVID ... for any purpose at all. Now this?
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Old 06-05-20, 02:16 PM
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Hydroxychloroquine does NOT treat Covid-19: Biggest study into the Donald Trump-backed anti-malaria drug is ended with 'immediate effect' after researchers found it made no difference

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rug-finds.html
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Old 06-06-20, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
To say that 90% of the patients treated with HCL recover successfully sounds odd to me. Isn't the recovery rate nearly that high anyway?
Way higher, unless you're over 60


It's hard to find data on this topic without it becoming infected with politics. Is there a good source for summaries of these clinical trials/studies as they results come in?
I was listening to Glenn Loury's podcast, and he was talking about how, because the American media is so polarized around Trump (Fox instantly hails everything he says as gospel, and the mainstream media kneejerk-slams everything he says as stupid (it's an understandable case of profiling, they're right at least 99% of the time)), in order to find more meaningful information about topics like HCL he turns to european media sources. I always get a good impression from the BBC and the Guardian, I don't know to what degree the comparable brexit polarization might cause the same effect in the english media though.
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Old 06-06-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Lol ... it is not an official abbreviation. It is an attempt to avoid the embarrassment the virtual certainty of me misspelling it.
LOL I copied the abbreviation for you for exactly the same reason!
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Old 06-10-20, 05:51 PM
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Guys, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is a right wing wacko political organization, not a real medical association. They believe HIV does not cause Aids, abortion linked to breast cancer, autism is linked to vaccines etc. Don't post crap from them...For the record, when I admitted Lupus patients to our COVID 19 ICU on a ventilator , we stopped their hydroxychloroquine and placed them on steroids as those who were kept on it fared worse...…..( and no, hydroxychloroquine didn't prevent them from the blood clots and ARDS and ending up on a ventilator with maximum pressors and drips and clinging to life...precariously).
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Old 06-10-20, 06:06 PM
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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...6638?query=TOC It also sucks as post exposure prophylaxis... I was hoping it would be a cheap prophylaxis
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Old 06-10-20, 07:04 PM
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A good summary article on the various hydroxychloroquine trials:

Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19

“It just seems like we are ignoring signal after signal,” says Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Translational Science Institute. U.S. President Donald Trump’s promotion of it led to a scientific “obsession” with hydroxychloroquine despite thin evidence for its promise, he says. “We’d be better off shifting our attention to drugs that might actually work.” Peter Kremsner of the University of Tübingen agrees hydroxychloroquine “certainly isn’t a wonder drug.” The new results left him “wrestling” with the question of whether to proceed with two hydroxychloroquine trials, one in hospitals and the other in patients with milder illness at home.
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