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6 ft is now 10 ft

Old 05-28-20, 08:07 AM
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6 ft is now 10 ft

Experts on Tuesday said they believe the six-feet of distance recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO) may not be enough to limit the transmission of COVID-19.

In a perspective article published in the journal Science, three experts wrote that aerosol particles can accumulate and remain infectious in indoor air for hours, while being easily inhaled deep into the lungs.

“Increasing evidence for SARS-CoV-2 suggests the 6 ft WHO recommendation is likely not enough under many indoor conditions where aerosols can remain airborne for hours, accumulate over time, and follow air flows over distances further than 6 ft,” they said.

Chia Wang of National Sun Yat-sen University in Taiwan, as well as Kimberly Prather and Dr. Robert Schooley of the University of California, San Diego, said that a large proportion of the COVID-19 spread appears to be occurring through the airborne transmission of aerosols. They added the transmission was produced by asymptomatic individuals during breathing and speaking.

On Tuesday, the experts said that for society to resume as normal, measures must be implemented to reduce aerosol transmission, which includes the universal wearing of masks — in addition to widespread testing. They believe both practices could help identify and isolate those infected asymptomatic individuals.

“It is particularly important to wear masks in locations with conditions that can accumulate high concentrations of viruses, such as health care settings, airplanes, restaurants, and other crowded places with reduced ventilation,” they added. >>> now what
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Old 05-28-20, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
Experts on Tuesday said they believe the six-feet of distance recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO) may not be enough to limit the transmission of COVID-19.

In a perspective article published in the journal Science, three experts wrote that aerosol particles can accumulate and remain infectious in indoor air for hours, while being easily inhaled deep into the lungs.

“Increasing evidence for SARS-CoV-2 suggests the 6 ft WHO recommendation is likely not enough under many indoor conditions where aerosols can remain airborne for hours, accumulate over time, and follow air flows over distances further than 6 ft,” they said.

Chia Wang of National Sun Yat-sen University in Taiwan, as well as Kimberly Prather and Dr. Robert Schooley of the University of California, San Diego, said that a large proportion of the COVID-19 spread appears to be occurring through the airborne transmission of aerosols. They added the transmission was produced by asymptomatic individuals during breathing and speaking.

On Tuesday, the experts said that for society to resume as normal, measures must be implemented to reduce aerosol transmission, which includes the universal wearing of masks — in addition to widespread testing. They believe both practices could help identify and isolate those infected asymptomatic individuals.

“It is particularly important to wear masks in locations with conditions that can accumulate high concentrations of viruses, such as health care settings, airplanes, restaurants, and other crowded places with reduced ventilation,” they added. >>> now what
The key word there is "indoor" .
We'll probably see more emphasis on ventilation of indoor spaces.
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Old 05-28-20, 07:53 PM
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one of the guys in our office is a loud talker & someone jokingly & affectionately, on a conference call, called him a double masker. hmmm maybe it’s no joke

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Old 05-28-20, 10:12 PM
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I think there are a lot of factors and that means no one number is going to be universally correct and safe.

How long you spend in an infected person's presence and how close are like sides of a coin here. A few minutes, an hour, depends where you stand. I've read it takes about 1,000 virus particles to start an infection on average (again greatly simplified!) and while somebody is constantly exhaling more than that, not as many are reaching you. But they're accumulating. So 30 seconds of Eskimo kisses are more dangerous than 10 minutes at 10 feet.

Air circulation is a big one too. As is how the person is exhaling, after they singing, coughing, sneezing?

So with those principals in mind, we're so trying to do they best we can. All the things we know to do line washing hands and avoiding contact as much as possible especially large indoor gatherings still apply. I guess what this is telling us is choose your line wisely at the grocery store.
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Old 05-28-20, 10:50 PM
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I've understood the six foot rule as guidance to the public for the purpose of slowing spread among the population. For that purpose, it still seems effective. Not, by any means, is it intended to manage risk for any individual person.
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Old 05-29-20, 12:54 AM
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According to some of my family and acquaintances, the difference between 6 feet and 10 feet of social distancing is the difference between mere socialism and outright communism.
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Old 05-29-20, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The key word there is "indoor" .
We'll probably see more emphasis on ventilation of indoor spaces.
went to a physical therapy session last night for a shoulder. I was a little early & the appointment before me ran long. I sat in the waiting room w my mask, in silence. listening to a clock tic & my heart beat & I became hyper aware of my breathing & the sound of their air circulation system. wondering if any fresh air was being introduced & if I was having any breathing difficulty. tic toc tic toc as time passed I got more & more anxious & began to think I was indeed having trouble breathing which only made me concentrate even more in my breathing & the air circulating & the sound of the clock & how much time I was sitting feeling trapped in an indoor space. eventually it was my turn & all that anxiety & self perceived breathing difficulty disappeared. even tho the therapist & I went into a small exam room & while we started talking both in masks we were 6 ft apart but then as anyone might imagine the exam became physical as he manipulated my shoulder, etc. I have more appointments lined up. then I went to the grocery store... I’m a gonner
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Old 05-29-20, 03:15 PM
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rumrunn6 , yeah, that's a familiar feeling. I cancelled most medical appointments since the Super Cooties Apocalypse became a thing, but I had a few necessary urgent care appointments for chronic respiratory inflammation and what I thought was a detached retina (turned out to be a less serious posterior vitreous detachment).

And every time I wondered whether my immunology appointments were introducing more risk than it was worth for the potential benefits. I don't drive so if it's too far to walk or bicycle I take the city bus or Uber. The city did the best it could to reduce risk on the bus but it's a losing cause. That's just the nature of public transportation. On pleasant afternoons I walked 2-6 miles home rather than take a bus.

So I mostly Ubered. All but one driver wore masks, as did I -- and still do -- anytime I'm out of my apartment or not in open air away from anyone. I don't wear masks for bike rides or walks, but I rarely get closer than 20-50 yards from the handful of other cyclists and pedestrians I see. I've avoided the MUP and city since March. I'm fortunate to live on the fringe 'burbs near a rural area where I can ride and walk without crowds. Meanwhile the Facebook activity group discussions seem to indicate MUP means Many Upset People. Everyone blames everyone else for ruining the MUP.

Even some medical clinic staff didn't wear masks or dangled the masks under their noses or chins. I suppose the doctors and admin were so desperate for staff they didn't want to alienate the clerks, aides and nurses who bothered to show up for work, so they let it slide. On Fakebroke I've read posts from several medical personnel who were COVID-19 denialists. I can't fathom how someone can work in health care and still deny science in preference for their pet theories about essential oils and conspiracies. I suppose they're products of typical American education, which emphasizes regurgitating correct answers without actually understanding the material.

Fortunately the immunology doc herself and primary nurse did wear appropriate masks, and we managed to conduct the tests with minimal contact while staying on opposite ends of the exam room.

The ophthalmologist was the most cautious, since testing required close proximity. He wore nearly full operating room PPE, an N95 mask and surgical mask over the N95, since the exhalation valve is designed to protect only the wearer. He was remarkably cheerful. But some health care workers actually enjoy their jobs, while for others it's just a paycheck. Same as when I was in health care in the 1970s-'80s.

I've self-isolated for a week after every medical appointment, avoiding my neighbors (mostly older than I, many disabled or with chronic illnesses), trying to limit grocery store visits to once a week at most. I even wait until late at night to check my mail. Hardly anyone in my building wears masks or takes any precautions.

Funny thing is, hardly anyone has gotten sick either. Same for the entire Fort Worth/Dallas Metroplex. Local news the past week has talked about the surprisingly low number of COVID-19 cases. Lots of infections, sure, but experts still can't figure out why SARS-CoV-2 hits some regions so hard, while others show relatively few complications, despite the apparently similar strains. There's little evidence of significant mutations.

So in my area there's a rush back to whatever is considered normal.

I'm hoping they're right. But I'm also anticipating the usual historical pattern of second and third waves catching cities off guard and saying "Wha' happen?"
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Old 05-29-20, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
went to a physical therapy session last night for a shoulder. I was a little early & the appointment before me ran long. I sat in the waiting room w my mask, in silence. listening to a clock tic & my heart beat & I became hyper aware of my breathing & the sound of their air circulation system. wondering if any fresh air was being introduced & if I was having any breathing difficulty. tic toc tic toc as time passed I got more & more anxious & began to think I was indeed having trouble breathing which only made me concentrate even more in my breathing & the air circulating & the sound of the clock & how much time I was sitting feeling trapped in an indoor space. eventually it was my turn & all that anxiety & self perceived breathing difficulty disappeared. even tho the therapist & I went into a small exam room & while we started talking both in masks we were 6 ft apart but then as anyone might imagine the exam became physical as he manipulated my shoulder, etc. I have more appointments lined up. then I went to the grocery store... I’m a gonner
The doctors out here, you show up, check in by calling them from your car, and they call you back when they're ready to see you.

The vet won't even let you in the building!
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Old 05-30-20, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The doctors out here, you show up, check in by calling them from your car, and they call you back when they're ready to see you.The vet won't even let you in the building!
the regional difference are interesting. even within areas ppl are doing things differently. my hair cutter said he would invite 1 person into his salon at a time. maybe he changed that. Wifey is going right now & she says the salon will have other ppl in there. will be interesting to hear how it goes

took a drive yesterday from MA, thru CT to NY, just north of the city. highway restrooms are open, in CT Reins Deli is open for take out including bathrooms (gotta wear a mask inside), restaurants are open & they all seem to have added outdoor seating. saw noone wearing masks on those patios as I drove by, but not sure I saw the faces of wait staff. noone in NY seems to have any fashion masks, they're all the cheap blue surgical style. meaning, I got some approval looks at my masks. mask envy?
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Old 05-30-20, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
cancelled most medical appointments
thinking about canceling my future physio appointments, for now. closed environs & physical contact w a stranger who has similar close contact w/ other strangers? I don't even hug my Daughter right now
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Old 05-31-20, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post

I don't even hug my Daughter right now
>>> really
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