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Old 07-15-20, 10:08 AM
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Covid-19

i would like to know how COVID-19 can thrive without regard to any climate factors such as heat or cold or humid or arid. COVID-19 produces a broad range of symptoms. COVID-19 affects all races. COVID-19 affects all ages. COVID-19 appears to reinfect those that have had it and recovered. i can find no similarity between COVID-19 and any other life form. While COVID-19 doesn't always disable its mere presence is sufficient to cause mass disruptions of ALL aspects of modernity. COVID-19 isolates people and makes them subject to remote authorities. these general factors taken along with many many more specific aspects of COVID-19 make it seem so unnatural. add in that recent "media" & open source intelligence has avoided the MANMADE hypothesis and you have a uniquely unnatural phenomenon that will disrupt into the foreseeable future.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:18 AM
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Think of it as sometimes deadly version of the common cold.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
i would like to know how COVID-19 can thrive without regard to any climate factors such as heat or cold or humid or arid. COVID-19 produces a broad range of symptoms. COVID-19 affects all races. COVID-19 affects all ages. COVID-19 appears to reinfect those that have had it and recovered. i can find no similarity between COVID-19 and any other life form. While COVID-19 doesn't always disable its mere presence is sufficient to cause mass disruptions of ALL aspects of modernity. COVID-19 isolates people and makes them subject to remote authorities. these general factors taken along with many many more specific aspects of COVID-19 make it seem so unnatural. add in that recent "media" & open source intelligence has avoided the MANMADE hypothesis and you have a uniquely unnatural phenomenon that will disrupt into the foreseeable future.
I agree- the general level of science literacy in this country is abysmal. The idea that "natural" has been used so extensively as a marketing synonym for "wholesome" probably hasn't helped.

There's nothing unnatural about any of this. Lots of natural things are both complicated and malicious.

Last edited by MinnMan; 07-15-20 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:39 AM
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I think there is good evidence that the virus doesn't last as long at warmer temperatures outside a suitable host. So you would think it would die down now that summer is here, but instead, we humans of the United States have been going out of our way to provide plenty of suitable hosts and ensuring the transmission window happens quickly while the virus is still viable. Seems to be working. The virus is thriving despite a somewhat more hostile outside environment.

The virus is just another life form with the same agenda as all the rest, Replicate. We humans should get that concept easily, We've been replicating successfully for thousands of years. We cannot make this virus go away. (It will probably live on in other animals even if we eradicate it from humans.) But we can stop "feeding" it. ie giving the virus ample opportunity to infect other humans. That's our choice, We have chosen to help it thrive.

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Old 07-15-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I agree- the general level of science literacy in this country is abysmal. The idea that "natural" has been used so extensively as a marketing synonym for "wholesome" probably hasn't helped.

There's nothing unnatural about any of this. Lots of natural things are both complicated and malicious.
+1 But ... there is nothing malicious about this, just another life form doing its best to thrive in the world it happens to live in. As I've said in another thread, I see the virus a little like I see fruit flies. It's here, they're here. If I leave old fruit out on the counter, guess what? They're back! If I keep the kitchen clean. not an issue. This virus isn't very different. To avoid transmission only requires a little attention to physical realities. Masks, distance, quarantine and hand washing. Any one of the first three works. Every country that has done one of those rigorously has seen the spread drop to almost zero.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Think of it as sometimes deadly version of the common cold.
>>> do you have any explanation as to why climate is not significant to this virus and it is to cold or flu and all other diseases ??? all life ( non GMO) seems to be moderated and defined by climate and temperature yet COVID-19 seems unaffected.
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Old 07-15-20, 10:55 AM
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Its completely natural and organic, like every other pathogen out there.

If you can figure out how it spreads, you can stop the transmission. If you actually do something about it.
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Old 07-15-20, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
>>> do you have any explanation as to why climate is not significant to this virus and it is to cold or flu and all other diseases ??? all life ( non GMO) seems to be moderated and defined by climate and temperature yet COVID-19 seems unaffected.
Sure, go ahead, just make up your own "facts". Why don't you turn them into memes and start spreading your misinformation more widely? You could maybe get some subsidies from the Russian bot farms, like that other guy here who supposedly lives in China.
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Old 07-15-20, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
>>> do you have any explanation as to why climate is not significant to this virus and it is to cold or flu and all other diseases ??? all life ( non GMO) seems to be moderated and defined by climate and temperature yet COVID-19 seems unaffected.
I believe the reason colds are seasonal has more to do with our response to weather, rather than the weather itself. In other words, colds increase an epidemiologically significant period of time after the little germ bags (children) get together when school beings in the fall. We are also more likely to be indoors and in closer proximity at those times.

The same might have happened with COVID, but we are in various stages of lockdown. So there is no clear "seasonal" factor. It's our response to the antigen, not the antigen itself that causes the seasonality.
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Old 07-15-20, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Its completely natural and organic, like every other pathogen out there.

If you can figure out how it spreads, you can stop the transmission. If you actually do something about it.
... a TANGELO is organic but it did not come to be without "assistance" it and other examples show that hybridizing is a human endeavor. i only ask that, on a probability scale of 1-100 the chances of a COVID occurring sans human assistance would be... ? BTW i am not advocating one way or the other i just think it's odd how little real info exists about the genesis of this virus in circumstances where this virus is dominating world affairs.
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Old 07-15-20, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
... a TANGELO is organic but it did not come to be without "assistance" it and other examples show that hybridizing is a human endeavor. i only ask that, on a probability scale of 1-100 the chances of a COVID occurring sans human assistance would be... ? BTW i am not advocating one way or the other i just think it's odd how little real info exists about the genesis of this virus in circumstances where this virus is dominating world affairs.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Propagation

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In 2011, a troop of baboons were attracted to the higher sweetness of a new likely mutation in a Minneola planting in Cape Town, South Africa, prompting its propagation.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangelo
...many of the fruit varieties we grow commercially are the result of either chance mutation (AKA "sporting"), or of unplanned and undocumented crossing, discovered in an orchard somewhere. Thus the Red Delicious apple was born, and its various sports have come to pass. Your premise is flawed.
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Old 07-15-20, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post



...many of the fruit varieties we grow commercially are the result of either chance mutation (AKA "sporting"), or of unplanned and undocumented crossing, discovered in an orchard somewhere. Thus the Red Delicious apple was born, and its various sports have come to pass. Your premise is flawed.

>>> so you are 100% sure that COVID is not the result of virus hybridizing . Tangelos are a cross between tangerines and grapefruits, or pomelos. Created by a USDA biologist named Walter Swingle in 1911.

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Old 07-15-20, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post



...many of the fruit varieties we grow commercially are the result of either chance mutation (AKA "sporting"), or of unplanned and undocumented crossing, discovered in an orchard somewhere. Thus the Red Delicious apple was born, and its various sports have come to pass. Your premise is flawed.



Good effort. He'll just come back at you with another version of the same.

I think he probably has my posts blocked, but whatever. Some things can't be fixed.

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Old 07-15-20, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Sure, go ahead, just make up your own "facts". Why don't you turn them into memes and start spreading your misinformation more widely? You could maybe get some subsidies from the Russian bot farms, like that other guy here who supposedly lives in China.
>>> feel free to correct any factual inaccuracy. i do not see where the "question" of whether COVID is a man caused hybridization is a factual assertion of any kind. to conclude that COVID is a chance evolvement of a viral pathogen is to disregard the history of viral evolvements because heretofore all evidence is that whatever the virus, climate & host limitations existed ( herpes HIV ebola) whereas with COVID none seem to exist. how can the common dominator of COVID be that it has no common denominator??? if the answer is hybridization so be it.
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Old 07-15-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Good effort. He'll just come back at you with another version of the same.

I think he probably has my posts blocked, but whatever. Some things can't be fixed.
i didn't say ALL mutations I just said TANGELOS . god bless walter swingle 1871 -1952 ... FALSE ALARMERS with MINNimal minds are hard to please
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Old 07-15-20, 01:33 PM
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I have the answer.

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Old 07-15-20, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
>>> so you are 100% sure that COVID is not the result of virus hybridizing .

Argument from ignorance

Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false...This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes the possibility that there may have been an insufficient investigation to prove that the proposition is either true or false.[1] It also does not allow for the possibility that the answer is unknowable, only knowable in the future, or neither completely true nor completely false.[2] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.
...I could do this all day, but I have some stuff I need to do now.
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Old 07-15-20, 01:38 PM
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...and your premise is still flawed.
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Old 07-15-20, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
... the MANMADE hypothesis and you have a uniquely unnatural phenomenon that will disrupt into the foreseeable future.
Suppose it is manmade? Exactly what difference does that make? Even if this was a deliberate attempt to bring this country to its knees. Let's say that was the case, And we, being the greatest nation that earth has ever known simply steps up to this attack, does what is needed to minimize the damage and goes on. Doesn't it?

A lesser nation would use the principle of irresponsibility carefully protected in its Constitution to do little and simply let what is going to happen happen.

Remember., this is just a virus. If it gets no people to infect it will go away. Give it millions and it steps up to the buffet and has itself a feast.
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Old 07-15-20, 02:22 PM
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Old 07-15-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...and your premise is still flawed.
... you could have just as easily stated you are 85% sure that it is a naturally occurring pathogen because ________________ . you should note that i am open to ALL view points. i started the thread solely to demonstrate how illiberal most self proclaimed liberals actually are. right on cue MINNIMUSman falsely alarms you by accusing me of posting russian propagandanext you give me apples and i wanted tangelos lastly you mis apply this argumentum ad ignorantiam label by treating my inquiries as an attempt shift the burden of proof in an instance when im not trying to prove anything !? the liberal-illiberal dichotomy should not be lost on you. the only voice that matters to an illiberal is his own. MINNIMUS has no facts at his disposal with which to engage so he snarks in an echo chamber of snarkers and crowns himself snark king for a day. i post to learn what others think and to the extent of this thread to datei i have learned that no one considers COVID a hybridization. i am neither joyed or dismayed by this but i am disappointed that for all the posed liberal anti trump BS that floats around here few seem to recognize that they are just a MAGA cap removed from being what they like to hate on btw what do you have against walter swingle
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Old 07-15-20, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Suppose it is manmade? Exactly what difference does that make?
>>> to you & me none but at high levels of state _____
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Old 07-15-20, 02:48 PM
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This is a difficult virus to deal with. For one thing, it seems as if nobody has significant immunity to the virus. So, the right contact, and it can spread from host to host. Part of the seasonality of the Flu is likely a combination of moderate immunity among the people, and wide spread infections, followed by a lack of new hosts.

Unfortunately, there are perhaps 300 million potential hosts in the USA for COVID.

We also had a big push to reopen this spring. Too much, too early? So, while we may have reduced spreading now, there are quite a few spreading the disease.

It is hard to say whether the virus will rebound in the fall.

A lot of what seems to impact the virus is what people are doing. So, people may stay inside in the South during the summer like people do in the North during the winter.

This fall, the more in-person schooling we have, the greater the expected spread of the virus. Not necessarily killing the school kids, but leaving a plume of destruction around them.

Reinfection does seem real, some with severe reactions, but it is unclear how widespread. There are several major strains of the virus circulating in the USA which may impact reinfection.

I think we likely had quite a few undocumented cases in my county, but I believe we could have wiped out COVID, except for repeatedly re-importing from cities with more infections to the north, and states with more infections both to the north and the south.
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Old 07-15-20, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
... you could have just as easily stated you are 85% sure that it is a naturally occurring pathogen because ________________ . you should note that i am open to ALL view points. i started the thread solely to demonstrate how illiberal most self proclaimed liberals actually are.
...my viewpoint is that your premise is deeply flawed.

Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
right on cue MINNIMUSman falsely alarms you by accusing me of posting russian propagandanext you give me apples and i wanted tangelos ... btw what do you have against walter swingle https://youtu.be/I6gXygJkhyE
...I have been an orchardist for much of my adult life. I grow Minneola Tangelo in my front yard. I am grateful for the efforts of the guys who hybridized and distributed this fruit variety. It is a solid, dependable producer for me here.


Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
lastly you mis apply this argumentum ad ignorantiam label by treating my inquiries as an attempt shift the burden of proof in an instance when im not trying to prove anything !?
...whether or not you are trying to prove anything, clearly you don't understand argument from ignorance well enough to know when you've just used it.

Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
i post to learn what others think
...if this were true, you would be posting in English instead of making me use Google Translate.

Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
i am neither joyed or dismayed by this but i am disappointed that for all the posed liberal anti trump BS that floats around here few seem to recognize that they are just a MAGA cap removed from being what they like to hate on
...not certain what it is you're trying to say here, and Google Translate was no help on this part. Anyway, I now have more stuff I have to do.
I have a line on a Holdsworth Professional in my size, and it's an hour and a half drive from me.
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Old 07-15-20, 02:58 PM
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...and your premise remains deeply flawed.
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