Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Coronavirus/COVID-19
Reload this Page >

Denial of stats due to "contributing" factors........

Notices
Coronavirus/COVID-19 Discussion of the novel coronavirus

Denial of stats due to "contributing" factors........

 
Old 11-24-20, 11:49 AM
  #1  
freeranger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
freeranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,891

Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 294 Times in 193 Posts
Denial of stats due to "contributing" factors........

Was talking with a friend, and people denying Covid stats, saying there were underlying factors and Covid shouldn't be considered the cause of death, or otherwise in stats. I believe, in most cases, that Covid should be and is the cause of death or hospitalization. I used to (and probably still due to an extent) have asthma, and I have seasonal allergies. If I'm lucky enough (trying to be careful enough) to dodge Covid, I can live the rest of my life with any occasional, mild asthma I might still have lingering, and can definitely live the rest of my life with my mild seasonal allergies. I used to smoke way too much, but my lungs seem good now, no problems, quit decades ago. But Covid, due to my past bad habits, could have a chance of killing me. So, someone with asthma that would likely live out the rest of their life, gets Covid and passes away, how can it be argued that Covid was not the cause? If an asthmatic didn't get the virus, good chance they would live out the rest of their life. If they would get Covid, the scenario definitely changes!
freeranger is offline  
Likes For freeranger:
Old 11-24-20, 12:02 PM
  #2  
blacknbluebikes 
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 564

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked 195 Times in 95 Posts
I hear what you're saying. Question becomes - OK, you don't agree with the numbers. Happens to me in business every day. But, hey, Mr. Skeptic, OK, if the numbers are something else -- what is it that you want to do differently? Send all the nurses home for a few days off? Maybe re-deploy the refrigerator truck?
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 11-24-20, 12:09 PM
  #3  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,300

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2324 Post(s)
Liked 373 Times in 235 Posts
People will do anything to not accept reality. One of those realities is that there is a pandemic on--and the US government completely fumbled the ball start to finish on it.

Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
I hear what you're saying. Question becomes - OK, you don't agree with the numbers. Happens to me in business every day. But, hey, Mr. Skeptic, OK, if the numbers are something else -- what is it that you want to do differently? Send all the nurses home for a few days off? Maybe re-deploy the refrigerator truck?
You misspelled 'Cynic'. Calling people who want to deny reality 'skeptics' only gives them legitimacy.
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Likes For Marcus_Ti:
Old 11-24-20, 12:12 PM
  #4  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,224

Bikes: Breezer Radar

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1716 Post(s)
Liked 987 Times in 466 Posts
"Guns don't kill people, it's the blood loss from the bullet holes that kill people."
tyrion is offline  
Old 11-24-20, 03:42 PM
  #5  
Biker395 
Seat Sniffer
 
Biker395's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,163

Bikes: 2008 Scott CR1 Pro; 2006 Schwinn Fastback Pro and 1996 Colnago Decor Super C96; 2003 Univega Alpina 700; 2000 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked 634 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by freeranger View Post
Was talking with a friend, and people denying Covid stats, saying there were underlying factors and Covid shouldn't be considered the cause of death, or otherwise in stats. I believe, in most cases, that Covid should be and is the cause of death or hospitalization. I used to (and probably still due to an extent) have asthma, and I have seasonal allergies. If I'm lucky enough (trying to be careful enough) to dodge Covid, I can live the rest of my life with any occasional, mild asthma I might still have lingering, and can definitely live the rest of my life with my mild seasonal allergies. I used to smoke way too much, but my lungs seem good now, no problems, quit decades ago. But Covid, due to my past bad habits, could have a chance of killing me. So, someone with asthma that would likely live out the rest of their life, gets Covid and passes away, how can it be argued that Covid was not the cause? If an asthmatic didn't get the virus, good chance they would live out the rest of their life. If they would get Covid, the scenario definitely changes!
It's because most outcomes can be arguably linked to a plurality of factors, not just one. In that case, it becomes arguable what the "cause" of the outcome is.

But it is not an either/or proposition. There is a statistical means to describe the situation. Long ago, I read a study that concluded that the mean loss of life expectancy for people who died with COVID was about 12 years.

That's significant by anyone's measure.
__________________
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...

Biker395 is offline  
Likes For Biker395:
Old 11-24-20, 04:15 PM
  #6  
Hondo Gravel
Society Dropout
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,017

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1624 Post(s)
Liked 1,680 Times in 1,063 Posts
I trust science over politics.. anyways I’m bored so I’m drinking beer and watering grass and listening to Ozzy’s Boneyard on SiriusXM. I’m going to play it safe and recluse.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 11-25-20, 02:18 AM
  #7  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,851

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 690 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 290 Posts
Yeah, I dunno what you do about that, the CDC excess death site is hard to interpret so you can't send people there. They need to simplify it to a number "So far this year there have been X number of deaths above the average for the last 10 years". Last time I looked it was something like 330-340,000. So yeah, if anything, the official Covid-19 death count is underestimating the real toll, by a large margin. I suspect that may be deliberate.
Trevtassie is offline  
Likes For Trevtassie:
Old 11-25-20, 05:56 AM
  #8  
Trevtassie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,851

Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 690 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 290 Posts
This page does it better https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/e...ulative-deaths Can select different countries. USA is currently 341,000 above the long term average.
Trevtassie is offline  
Likes For Trevtassie:
Old 11-25-20, 06:14 AM
  #9  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
Moderator: please move this to P&R or someplace rational people don't have to see it.
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-25-20, 08:03 AM
  #10  
livedarklions
I'm cross-chained
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 8,120

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4228 Post(s)
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
Moderator: please move this to P&R or someplace rational people don't have to see it.

Rational people don't click on threads they don't want to engage in. No one made you click on it. If there's a COVID forum, this is an appropriate topic for it.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 11-25-20, 08:14 AM
  #11  
livedarklions
I'm cross-chained
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 8,120

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4228 Post(s)
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,824 Posts
There really is no basis for that argument as there's no question that a mass outbreak greatly increases the demand for ICU beds and other intense medical interventions. If the outbreak is large enough, it stretches the available medical resources to the breaking point, and obtaining adequate urgent treatment for other non-COVID ailments and injuries then becomes impossible. Thus, in the face of a mass outbreak, we can expect deaths from ALL causes to go up.

TL/DR: The actual number of deaths attributable directly to COVID is a somewhat meaningless figure as either way, there are a whole lot of lives going to be lost if the curve isn't flattened. We don't need to know the precise figure to know that the real catastrophic threat is the collapse of the medical system in the face of overwhelming demand.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 09:23 AM
  #12  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
There really is no basis for that argument as there's no question that a mass outbreak greatly increases the demand for ICU beds and other intense medical interventions. If the outbreak is large enough, it stretches the available medical resources to the breaking point, and obtaining adequate urgent treatment for other non-COVID ailments and injuries then becomes impossible. Thus, in the face of a mass outbreak, we can expect deaths from ALL causes to go up.

TL/DR: The actual number of deaths attributable directly to COVID is a somewhat meaningless figure as either way, there are a whole lot of lives going to be lost if the curve isn't flattened. We don't need to know the precise figure to know that the real catastrophic threat is the collapse of the medical system in the face of overwhelming demand.
Your TL/DR is as long as what it explains....
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 09:37 AM
  #13  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
CDC website today with stats from 1/21/2020 until 11/25/2020. 12,498,734 total cases. 259,005 deaths.
Therefore 2% of those who get it die., the majority of whom are over 65, and most of the deaths are in facilities which are easily isolated.

Put another way:
330,000,000 people in the US.
Therefore 12,498,734/330,000,000 = 3.7 % (0.0378) of US population has tested positive for it.
259,005/330,000,000 = 7 ten thousandths % (0.000784) of the US population has died from it.

So, for 2% of the 4%, most of whom are already in facilities, we are shutting down the economy, increasing significant mental health problems and trampling civil rights. Yeah, sounds logical to me...
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.

Last edited by stevel610; 11-26-20 at 10:05 AM.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 09:54 AM
  #14  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...htm#PlaceDeath

On this link, updated as of 11/25/2020 the CDC lists 240,213 deaths. (So much for accurate statistics).
213,919 took place in a hospital, Nursing home or hospice facility.
So, 89% of deaths took place in controlled environments.
16,000 deaths outside of facilities, roughly that caused annually by automobile accidents. Yeah, seems like a good reason to shut down the other 98% of the country....
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.

Last edited by stevel610; 11-26-20 at 10:05 AM.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 10:05 AM
  #15  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,300

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2324 Post(s)
Liked 373 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
CDC website today with stats from 1/21/2020 until today. 12,498,734 total cases. 259,005 deaths.
Therefore 2% of those who get it die., the majority of whom are over 65, and most of the deaths are in facilities which are easily isolated.

Put another way:
330,000,000 people in the US.
Therefore 12,498,734/330,000,000 = 3.7 % (0.0378) of US population has tested positive for it.
259,005/330,000,000 = 7 ten thousandths % (0.000784) of the US population has died from it.

So, for 2% of the 4%, most of whom are already in facilities, we are shutting down the economy, increasing significant mental health problems and trampling civil rights. Yeah, sounds logical to me...
It is almost like you don't understand what is going on--freely admit it, and then twist any numbers you can find to fit your prejudices.

You might just as well have said, 'sick people are in HOSPITALS!! Clearly hospitals are the only problem!!'
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 11:07 AM
  #16  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
It is almost like you don't understand what is going on--freely admit it, and then twist any numbers you can find to fit your prejudices.

You might just as well have said, 'sick people are in HOSPITALS!! Clearly hospitals are the only problem!!'
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

I have a pretty good handle of whats going on, thanks. It's a serious disease to which a certain demographic who are located in specific places are much more susceptible.
18-29 year olds make up 23% of cases and .1% of deaths.
65+ year olds make up 14% of cases and 80% of deaths.

If you're 65+ take appropriate precautions...and maybe tell your kids/grandkids not to visit😉.

Take a higher level of caution with appropriate safety measures in those areas. Don't place an undue burden on people who aren't in those areas or part of that demographic.

Last edited by stevel610; 11-26-20 at 11:15 AM.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 11:15 AM
  #17  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,300

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2324 Post(s)
Liked 373 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
I have a pretty good handle of whats going on, thanks. It's a serious disease to which a certain demographic who are located in specific places are much more susceptible.

Take a higher level of caution with appropriate safety measures in those areas. Don't place an undue burden on people who aren't in those areas or part of that demographic.
No...you really don't have a good handle on what is going on.


Take it from someone in Nebraska...whose self styled rugged conservative population pretended COVID was a Liberal Hoax for 6 months. Whose governor never shutdown anything. Whose governor sued cities that tried to institute mask mandates, while telling cities to take their own measures if they felt like it and suing them when they did. Whose governor got Trump to declare meat-packing plants owned by conservative mega-donors declared 'essential', where management actually had betting pools on employees getting sick.....and is now shocked that the hospitals are overwhelmed.

'Undue burden' indeed.


Here's some free scientific education for you. Airborne viruses travel. Lots. They do not recognize geographic or political distinctions.
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Likes For Marcus_Ti:
Old 11-26-20, 11:18 AM
  #18  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
No...you really don't have a good handle on what is going on.


Take it from someone in Nebraska...whose self styled rugged conservative population pretended COVID was a Liberal Hoax for 6 months. Whose governor never shutdown anything. Whose governor sued cities that tried to institute mask mandates, while telling cities to take their own measures if they felt like it and suing them when they did. Whose governor got Trump to declare meat-packing plants owned by conservative mega-donors declared 'essential', where management actually had betting pools on employees getting sick.....and is now shocked that the hospitals are overwhelmed.

'Undue burden' indeed.


Here's some free scientific education for you. Airborne viruses travel. Lots. They do not recognize geographic or political distinctions.
The science shows, viruses make demographic distinctions.😉

As my previous posts show, (and isn't it usually time to end the discussion when you have to repeat yourself...) 3.7% of the population will get the disease. 98% of them will not die of it.

Last edited by stevel610; 11-26-20 at 11:23 AM.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 11:21 AM
  #19  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,300

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2324 Post(s)
Liked 373 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
The science shows, viruses make demographic distinctions.😉
Technically, yes. But in the exact opposite manner you intend:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elanagr...h=6ef2aaf2b551
Marcus_Ti is offline  
Likes For Marcus_Ti:
Old 11-26-20, 11:32 AM
  #20  
stevel610 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 817

Bikes: Novara Safari, Raleigh Team U.S.A.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 224 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 62 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Technically, yes. But in the exact opposite manner you intend:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elanagr...h=6ef2aaf2b551
The article didn't list corresponding deaths in those areas, just higher cases. Doesn't list the demograhics either. Just a political hcwmtlbt piece.

People are allowed to take part in high risk behaviors. Heck, riding a bike on the road is a higher risk behavior.

As the CDC data shows, higher case counts does not necessarily produce a corresponding increase in deaths of that group.

But thanks for showing me my original post was correct.
Peace.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 11-26-20, 10:53 PM
  #21  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,271

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 186 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3946 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times in 1,096 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
...So, for 2% of the 4%, most of whom are already in facilities, we are shutting down the economy, increasing significant mental health problems and trampling civil rights. Yeah, sounds logical to me...

Sacrifice the weak... before the "strong" go crazy from lack of entertainment, murder their families and former co-workers and commit suicide because they're too weak to cope with relatively minor sacrifices compared with what our grandparents endured through world wars, economic collapses and pandemics. Does that pretty much cover this argument?
canklecat is offline  
Old 11-27-20, 12:34 AM
  #22  
CycleryNorth81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 877

Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 116 Posts
Why is the person holding the sign covering his face? Is the masked person ashame of the poster's message or is he trying to protect himself from the virus that would ravage his body? Either way he is a coward.
CycleryNorth81 is offline  
Old 11-27-20, 01:06 AM
  #23  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,271

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 186 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3946 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times in 1,096 Posts
Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81 View Post
Why is the person holding the sign covering his face? Is the masked person ashame of the poster's message or is he trying to protect himself from the virus that would ravage his body? Either way he is a coward.
Judging from videos and other photos, that appears to be a woman holding the "sacrifice the weak" sign. It's never been determined whether that person was serious or trolling to make a point about the ruthlessness implied by the "no lockdowns, no restrictions, no masks" and "it only kills 1%-2% of the population, and they're all old and useless anyway" crowd.
canklecat is offline  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 11-27-20, 07:49 PM
  #24  
livedarklions
I'm cross-chained
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 8,120

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4228 Post(s)
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
Your TL/DR is as long as what it explains....

Guess I'll need a TL/DR for my TL/DR!
livedarklions is offline  
Old 11-27-20, 07:57 PM
  #25  
livedarklions
I'm cross-chained
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 8,120

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Motobecane Fantom CX; Giant OCR A1

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4228 Post(s)
Liked 3,208 Times in 1,824 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...htm#PlaceDeath

On this link, updated as of 11/25/2020 the CDC lists 240,213 deaths. (So much for accurate statistics).
213,919 took place in a hospital, Nursing home or hospice facility.
So, 89% of deaths took place in controlled environments.
16,000 deaths outside of facilities, roughly that caused annually by automobile accidents. Yeah, seems like a good reason to shut down the other 98% of the country....

I can't get past the idiocy of including hospitals on your list. They got taken to the hospital because they were sick with COVID. All you're showing with that stat is that people don't generally die at home from it.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.