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Anti-vaxxers

 
Old 12-05-20, 04:57 PM
  #26  
Trevtassie
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
I am not surprised that social media followers give credence to their idols. I am surprised that the strangest of cream sometimes rises to the level of leadership, as in governor of a state. Clint as mayor didn't surprise me. Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger as governors definitely were surprising. Was the movie, "Idiocracy" really that far removed from reality? Kinda makes me glad that I have fewer days in front of me than behind me.
Arnold wasn't a complete idiot, inconsistent but not stupid, he at least recognised that climate change is a thing.
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Old 12-05-20, 05:14 PM
  #27  
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Arnold was installed basically to vacate the lawsuits against Enron, but he wound up being a better gov than expected.
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Old 12-05-20, 05:17 PM
  #28  
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That is all.
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Old 12-05-20, 05:44 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
I don't have any issue with what you said, but when did actors and actresses become 'community leaders"? I mean, sure, people are entitled to look to anyone they wish for inspiration and guidance, but I never thought that being skilled at pretending to be a fictional character (acting) qualified one to pontificate on society's ills and cures. Personally, I have enjoyed Bruce Willis and Clint Eastwood movies, but I doubt they have any substantial guidance for society at large. I guess I could be wrong.
Ronald Reagan became a country leader.

After becoming a state leader.

After starring with a chimp in a film and touting the health benefits of smoking.
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Old 12-05-20, 07:11 PM
  #30  
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The implication that there's always a hidden agenda -- evidence and Occam's Razor be damned -- is an appeal to your vanity.

The best con artists know that smart people believe they're too smart to be deceived. They're usually the *easiest* to deceive, especially when the "secret" is complex, abstract and strikes the right balance between piquing your curiosity and pushing those fear buttons to generate brain chemicals that give us a buzz rush.

And the con artists know there have been just enough actual conspiracies to misuse authority and abuse people to make *any* conspiracy theory seem plausible.

But we aren't living in an X-Files episode.
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Old 12-05-20, 07:23 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Pemetic2006 View Post
Can you please point out to me where I can get the real scoop on all these things the media is brainwashing me to believe?

thank you.
Parler is the only place where they don't censor the truth.
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Old 12-05-20, 07:34 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Parler is the only place where they don't censor the truth.
Parler? ha, ha, ha! Sheesh! "Conservative" and neo-nazi safe-space.
No thank you.
​​​​​​​
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Old 12-05-20, 07:42 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
The implication that there's always a hidden agenda -- evidence and Occam's Razor be damned -- is an appeal to your vanity.

The best con artists know that smart people believe they're too smart to be deceived. They're usually the *easiest* to deceive, especially when the "secret" is complex, abstract and strikes the right balance between piquing your curiosity and pushing those fear buttons to generate brain chemicals that give us a buzz rush.

And the con artists know there have been just enough actual conspiracies to misuse authority and abuse people to make *any* conspiracy theory seem plausible.

But we aren't living in an X-Files episode.
A huge prior long-term investment in neutralizing the body politic's ability to think and critically analyze conspiratorial explanations has also paid off. Those who helped to put the people's eyes out reproach them for their blindness.
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Old 12-05-20, 08:29 PM
  #34  
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To vaccines (slightly related to the thread topic): I want that vaccine rolled out soon, smoothly and distributed in good order. For selfish reasons. I won't be a candidate for a while. Yes, over 65 but no other factors. But, I just returned yesterday from my second visit to a doctor for a hernia that is growing. It is just an inconvenience now, but in 6 months it could get far worse and rather fast. (It is a femoral hernia which apparently can go bad with less warning than the more common inguinal hernia.) If that were to happen, I'd be going to the hospital for a few days, probably with a compromised immune system.

Here, elective surgery is on hold; probably until that vaccine has been taken by a real percentage of healthcare workers. I want that surgery while it is still elective and simple outpatient. So, vaccines, get here soon!
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Old 12-05-20, 09:02 PM
  #35  
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Yikes! Had hernia repair in 2015. Inguinal variety.. mesh .. performed by a robotic machine. Can still feel it today sometimes a dull pain but normal. Ended my weight lifting hobby. Gravel biking is better for me at this stage.
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Old 12-05-20, 09:17 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Yikes! Had hernia repair in 2015. Inguinal variety.. mesh .. performed by a robotic machine. Can still feel it today sometimes a dull pain but normal. Ended my weight lifting hobby. Gravel biking is better for me at this stage.
I had an inguinal 20 years ago. Mesh. I feel it every once in a while but no pain and it hasn't stopped me from doing anything. Gravel biking - I've stopped doing it almost entirely because if the ride gets rough it shakes my NFL lineman brain. Not good.
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Old 12-05-20, 09:56 PM
  #37  
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Are there side effects to a COVID-19 vaccine? What are the 'ingredients'? The cost? Answers to your vaccine questions

https://www.yahoo.com/news/side-effe...110035061.html
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Old 12-06-20, 02:27 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Toespeas View Post
I will let all you pro vaxx worshiping people go first , I am sure the centralized medical industry has our health and well being as top priority and not profits !!!!
Are you saying the vaccine is poison because it's cheaper than making a real thing? That it's not going to work at all, and people will take more coronavirus risks and get more covid?

I don't know if you've heard about this but Big Pharma likes money.

Dead people don't buy a lot of prozac and viagra and insulin and statins.
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Old 12-06-20, 02:38 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
I am not surprised that social media followers give credence to their idols. I am surprised that the strangest of cream sometimes rises to the level of leadership, as in governor of a state. Clint as mayor didn't surprise me. Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger as governors definitely were surprising. Was the movie, "Idiocracy" really that far removed from reality? Kinda makes me glad that I have fewer days in front of me than behind me.
​​​​​​In my lifetime, attitudes toward smoking cigarettes have changed dramatically. That gained steam as movies and TV - entertainment not commercials - changed the way they portrayed smoking. That's actors and actresses and moreso the characters they played, not being revered as idols but seen as examples of how different kinds of people behave. It's less about people finding gods on instagram and more about humans having a universal, instinctive need to fit in.
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Old 12-06-20, 12:53 PM
  #40  
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In grade school we had a fellow student that couldn’t walk because his parents refused the polio vaccine due to some cult religion. Totally preventable. So who had to suffer it wasn’t the parents.
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Old 12-06-20, 03:44 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
An American passport will be a ticket to the quarantine facility, or at least require irrefutable proof of vaccination, for entry into many countries.
I remember when my American passport would get me in pretty much anywhere. But now we have generated so many nut cases that It has spoiled all that. I think when the world sees gun toters parading with Trump flags on their pickups we donít look so desirable. These people who are so proud of their lack of education doesnít help either. They have flushed the American dream right down the toilet in their need for crappy beer and cheap gas. Very sad.
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Old 12-07-20, 10:47 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
I remember when my American passport would get me in pretty much anywhere. But now we have generated so many nut cases that It has spoiled all that. I think when the world sees gun toters parading with Trump flags on their pickups we donít look so desirable. These people who are so proud of their lack of education doesnít help either. They have flushed the American dream right down the toilet in their need for crappy beer and cheap gas. Very sad.



Totally agree except for the cheap beer and gas LOL
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Old 12-07-20, 11:15 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
The vaccine won't work if not enough people get vaccinated. And who knows how long it will be effective even if enough people get it.

Could be it only protects for two or three months, and I don't have high hopes we can vaccinate the world in that time-span (and then do it again from the top). You also need two shots. So in order to vaccinate, say, 70% of the US population, you would not need 230 million doses, but 460 million doses. And that's the US. We have quite a few poor contries and dictatorships around the world where there isn't an infrastructure even on par with the US. Take India, for instance. Or China. It will take years before the "world" is vaccinated.

I'm not sure this could even be done in three months (or two).
There are still lots of unknowns regarding this virus and the vaccines. The duration of response is unknown but these vaccines (both the RNA and adenovirus ones) induce a huge immune response that might provide long term protection against significant disease.

Also been going over some of the data from Dharavi - the biggest slum in India - and the number of deaths is shockingly low - even with about 75% of the population (of the slum) being antibody positive. And thanks to the British, India is good a counting things. All of leads to the idea that, like with Zika, there might be something to the hygiene hypothesis.
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Old 12-07-20, 11:27 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
We need a self-replicating mRNA vaccine.

After all, the virus is a self-replicating mRNA.
There is a push to use DNA technology to produce endogenous antibodies against things like SARS-Cov2.

Most of this is coming from people who failed with DNA vaccines - who you have to feel for. I mean, beaten to the punch by RNA?

But seriously, the vaccine is just a simple positive stranded RNA virus without the machinery to replicate (RDR Pol) or form (capsid, envelop). But I wonder if if could pick those up from other viruses or from any endogenous viruses?
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Old 12-07-20, 11:38 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
There are still lots of unknowns regarding this virus and the vaccines. The duration of response is unknown but these vaccines (both the RNA and adenovirus ones) induce a huge immune response that might provide long term protection against significant disease.

Also been going over some of the data from Dharavi - the biggest slum in India - and the number of deaths is shockingly low - even with about 75% of the population (of the slum) being antibody positive. And thanks to the British, India is good a counting things. All of leads to the idea that, like with Zika, there might be something to the hygiene hypothesis.
I was wondering about that ... how low the death rate was in India and how shocking that was. By the "hygiene hypothesis" do you mean as with polio?
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Old 12-07-20, 11:42 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
In grade school we had a fellow student that couldnít walk because his parents refused the polio vaccine due to some cult religion. Totally preventable. So who had to suffer it wasnít the parents.
I did too. His parents were Christian Scientists. We were born in '53.

I have always struggled with those turning their backs on what science and medicine have to offer. At the same time, medicine doesn't "get" all of health. I struggled with allergy-like symptoms for 30 years triggered by my repeated exposure to acetone and polyester resins while building fiberglass boats. (We all knew former boatbuilders with similar issues.) My doc sent me to a specialist who prescribed a powerful steroidal inhalant. Major improvement, Then my doc added a powerful antihistamine inhalant. My sinuses were finally manageable and didn't lead to sore throats and the antibiotic regime every 18 months or so. Expensive! When these weren't covered, my routine trips to the drug store were most of $400. 20 years later I'm seeing a nurse as a GP. After my first physical, she observed that I had mentioned these allergies and that we heard they were caused by acetone going through our skin and carrying the dissolved chemicals to our livers. Did I want to try a natropathic liver cleanser? So for $50 and a 90 day routine of 2 horse pills per day I am now almost entirely free of those symptoms. Not totally and I still take those inhalants but the dosage is down from al least a full squirt per nostril of each every day to just enough to know I got some medication every 5 days or so. I can wear wool again. I can go to bed without taking a shower first and actually sleep. For a one time cost of 1/3 of one of my little nasal spray bottles!

That said - I got to be one of the very early patients to be seen by a CAT scanner. I will always view that as "someone" looking after me; that I got to be in a time and place where 1) there was a CAT scanner that was purchased for general use, not acquired with grant money and not for use to see patients, 2) that I had a dad who knew about CAT scanners and that the local hospital, MGH in Boston had that one (my dad was doing early research for the next generation CAT scanner; his company now in full production of their next generation full body bone scanner) and 3) that my dad's workplace was in the business park of the hospital I was brought to.

In large part because if my dad, I agreed instantly when the Red Cross called me at my workplace and asked if I would leave work early that day and give a blood donation on a new machine that wold take two hours. Platelets. Separated by a machine invented and built by a another small company on the same highway belt around Boston. (To keep this slightly bicycle related - I got off the machine, rode 20 miles out to our club's Thursday night race, won the race and rode 20 miles home. Wow! I can do this! I never again donated on race day - fresh bandages over the big veins of both arms in a bike race ddn't seen entirely smart - but I donated every two weeks the rest of my racing days except post accident.)

To the vaccine - I will take it when my turn comes. (And if asked, will point out that I have a housemate far higher on the ladder that I do not want to infect though he should get his well before I am eligible.)
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Old 12-07-20, 11:53 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post

Also been going over some of the data from Dharavi - the biggest slum in India - and the number of deaths is shockingly low - even with about 75% of the population (of the slum) being antibody positive. And thanks to the British, India is good a counting things. All of leads to the idea that, like with Zika, there might be something to the hygiene hypothesis.
There is a hypotheses:
This striking finding raises the intriguing possibility of an immunological cross-reactivity between DENV serotypes and SARS-CoV-2. If proven correct, this hypothesis could mean that dengue infection or immunization with an efficacious and safe dengue vaccine could produce some level of immunological protection for SARS-CoV-2, before a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 becomes available.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....19.20197749v1
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Old 12-07-20, 12:31 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Toespeas View Post
I will let all you pro vaxx worshiping people go first , I am sure the centralized medical industry has our health and well being as top priority and not profits !!!!
As much as you can say that, in opposition I will say that one of the things that took me a while to figure out is how there's a very large group of people out there whose whole identity is based on them being the first to disagree with almost anything anyone says because they are "smarter" and they want to be sure you know that. This is really a disease, IMO, and incredibly common.. And in the wrong context it's dangerous. We are in that context now.
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Old 12-07-20, 01:23 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by mdarnton View Post
As much as you can say that, in opposition I will say that one of the things that took me a while to figure out is how there's a very large group of people out there whose whole identity is based on them being the first to disagree with almost anything anyone says because they are "smarter" and they want to be sure you know that.w.
You are totally wrong and if you had a proper education you would know it.
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Old 12-07-20, 02:34 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
You are totally wrong and if you had a proper education you would know it.
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