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Not wanting to get vaccinated?

 
Old 12-13-20, 10:05 AM
  #51  
freeranger
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Most of us are likely not first responders, health care providers, or in assisted living facilities. Some may be, but I doubt it's a majority. So by the time the majority of us are "eligible" for the vaccine, there should be credible info. as to how it's working, side effects, etc. I plan on getting the vaccine. Never had a severe allergy, haven't had reactions to any vaccines I've rec'd-- flu, pneumonia, shingles, all the ones recommended for seniors and gen'l population. Even had the Lyme disease vaccine, when it was available, and had no side effects from it. Knew many people(would need at least another two hands and feet to count all of them) who contacted Lyme disease, and I was mtn.biking frequently in the woods of northeaster MD and southeaster PA. Had flu (didn't get the shot that year) when I was still in high school). That flu was bad enough that touching the end of a hair felt like I'd been hit by a hammer. If coronavirus is anything near that (sounds like it is), don't even want to thing about possibly going thru it!!
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Old 12-13-20, 11:06 AM
  #52  
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Old 12-13-20, 11:06 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by freeranger View Post
Most of us are likely not first responders, health care providers, or in assisted living facilities. Some may be, but I doubt it's a majority. So by the time the majority of us are "eligible" for the vaccine, there should be credible info. as to how it's working, side effects, etc. I plan on getting the vaccine. Never had a severe allergy, haven't had reactions to any vaccines I've rec'd-- flu, pneumonia, shingles, all the ones recommended for seniors and gen'l population. Even had the Lyme disease vaccine, when it was available, and had no side effects from it. Knew many people(would need at least another two hands and feet to count all of them) who contacted Lyme disease, and I was mtn.biking frequently in the woods of northeaster MD and southeaster PA. Had flu (didn't get the shot that year) when I was still in high school). That flu was bad enough that touching the end of a hair felt like I'd been hit by a hammer. If coronavirus is anything near that (sounds like it is), don't even want to thing about possibly going thru it!!
The story of the Lyme disease vax is interesting. There was an effective vaccine, but the anti-vaxers and legal liability problems killed it.

By 2002, there seemed to be little appeal for a Lyme vaccine. Perhaps accelerated by the class-action lawsuits and the anti-vaccine lobby, the demand for the vaccine continue to drop. The manufacturer voluntarily discontinued sales of the product that year Ė it had been on the market for just 38 months. There was no evidence it caused arthritis, but dwindling sales (and the growing liability of lawsuits) led to its demise.
Science Based Medicine
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Old 12-16-20, 11:50 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Yikes. Found it. Me too.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-timeline.html

What I find rather nonsensical is how someone 64 is put in the same risk category as someone 25, while someone who is 65 is deemed high risk, and will get the vaccine earlier. <headslap>

For those in the first category:

Yeah that 64 -> 65 thing is magic eh? By the time the vaccine is available in my area, I will have reached that magic age and be eligible for it earlier.

However if I check into a nursing home right now, I can go right to the head of the line.
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Old 12-16-20, 12:19 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
However if I check into a nursing home right now, I can go right to the head of the line.
If you could get in to China right now, you could buy a vaccination on the black market. Unfortunately you can't get a visa to enter China at the present time.
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Old 12-16-20, 04:12 PM
  #56  
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I read the ACLU and others are trying to include the incarcerated population along with Corrections Officers and prison employees to be included with all the institutionalized care populations in the vaccination prioritization list. I personally have no problem with this as I think there will be plenty of vaccine for everybody that wants it. https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...rity-colorado/
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Old 12-16-20, 11:39 PM
  #57  
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Being ancient, maybe I can sell my early dose on the black market here. I'll bet it won't be long before it shows up on Ebay. Of course, it'll be shipped from China via Speedpack. My mother in-law just got home from the hospital after having Covid. She's 90. She didn't go in for covid, that wasn't discovered until she was there. She's doing fine. She's still trying to figure out what the big deal is and why she can't go anywhere. Shoot, so am I...
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Old 12-18-20, 03:03 PM
  #58  
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I'm sure a lot of people are nonsensically viewing as some sort of political issue or have fallen prey to the antivax propaganda. Or maybe just didn't take a 6th grade science class.
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Old 12-18-20, 03:22 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Bradbikes View Post
Or maybe just didn't take a 6th grade science class.
Time to brush up on your statistics.

And, of course, learn the difference between anecdotes and clinical trials.
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Old 12-18-20, 10:26 PM
  #60  
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I was required to have a rabies shot because other family members insisted since I bite people at random
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Old 12-19-20, 09:46 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I was required to have a rabies shot because other family members insisted since I bite people at random
I thought that was standard for all Texans,,,
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Old 12-19-20, 09:53 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
I think, some things will come out in the future, that people don't know about yet.
Dude, thatís, like, profound.

Sadly, many things have already come to pass in distant and recent history, and a particular group of people donít want to know anything. Weird, ay?
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Old 12-19-20, 01:29 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Bigbus View Post
I thought that was standard for all Texans,,,
I have nothing to say and can present no valid argument. The way the majority of countrymen are acting Iím glad I have my rabies shot.
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Old 12-20-20, 10:15 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I'm not going to be running out to get the vaccine, not that I'm worried about the safety of the vaccine; I'm just not as worried about Covid as so many others -- what can I say, I'm an animal

The main reason I'm not going to run out and get one, is because there is a limited supply and I know there are some anti-vaxxers out there, but from what I've seen with everything considered, I do believe people are really freaked out and there will be very long lines to get these shots.

I say, let them have it if that'll calm them down; no need for me to take someone else's dosage.

I think this video should reduce any anxiety anyone has over the safety of this vaccine, except for the super anti-vaxxers -- you'll never change the mind of conspiracy theorists. They live in a very powerful echo chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2VRaIzj28&t=2s

The story I'm linking is why I decided not to even wait in line for the vaccine. For all the talk about people are afraid of this vaccine being dangerous due to the record-breaking time to get it to market, I knew the fright of this pandemic was greater. And this fright is already starting to show its ugly head.

You see so much fear out in the public, not just fear of this pandemic, but anything the media shoves down our throat with endless coverage and all the overblown stories they do. What ever happened to fearing only fear?

It makes me sick at how fearful people become...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachels...h=1f848b23614a

As officials work to distribute the first vaccines to workers who actually need it, Stanford Health Care apologized Friday for failing to prioritize frontline residents and fellows, who say the university used a faulty algorithm to determine who gets vaccinated first.

Only seven residents and fellows were included in the group of people receiving the first 5,000 doses of Pfizerís vaccine, while healthcare workers who arenít on the front lines, such as senior faculty who have been working from home, were prioritized.
He covers it more in depth, I wonder how many more stories like this will make the news.

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Old 12-22-20, 09:13 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
People who have had the vaccine can still get infected. So do you really benefit?

This is misleading as hell. The vaccines don't prevent "infection", they prevent the propagation of the virus in the body after the initial infection. It appears that the virus does attach itself to cells in the nasopharyngeal area in vaccinated people, but then can't advance beyond that. In other words, the vaccines are reducing the odds that once infected with the COVID 19 virus that you will get SARS 2 by 90-95%. Maybe that's not a benefit in your world, but among reality-based people, I think it clearly is.
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Old 12-22-20, 09:23 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
I posted a link to a Youtube video on a previous topic, and it was deleted. If I post it again, I may upset someone. It is sad they don't allow all points of view. The person in the video had been a researcher in these things for decades. He knew what he was talking about, and explained it well. Maybe look at many different sources of information and see what you find.

Or you could talk to the moderators, and ask for permission to post the link again. If you do, let me know what they say.

I think, some things will come out in the future, that people don't know about yet. Or maybe they will be able to suppress all negative information.

Your YouTube video was of a guy whose YouTube account was deleted for repeatedly posting COVID misinformation. He got around the YouTube ban by having someone else post it from their account as "an interview".
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Old 12-22-20, 12:14 PM
  #67  
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You want the real deal about the vaccine and vaccines in general, listen to the guy who has been involved with vaccine development, Dr Paul Offit.
.

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Old 12-23-20, 05:16 PM
  #68  
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I heard the vaccine will make you glow in dark and that Russian satellites will watch you as you are glowing that Putin is a sneaky little devil.
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Old 12-23-20, 05:25 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I heard the vaccine will make you glow in dark and that Russian satellites will watch you as you are glowing that Putin is a sneaky little devil.
Scary. Wouldn't want Putin (or anyone else) to know you are at a KISS concert.
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Old 12-23-20, 05:33 PM
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Old 12-26-20, 04:08 PM
  #71  
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no one "wants" to get a shot, no one "wants" to wear a mask. quit whining
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Old 12-27-20, 03:17 AM
  #72  
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I was shocked to read that out of over 13K RNís surveyed, over 30% said they would NOT get vaccinated.

Still not as high a percentage as black people who say they wonít get the vaccine, but thatís a lot of medical ďprofessionalsĒ that are against it.

Looks like an uphill battle.

As a former infantry Marine Iíve got a shot record a mile long. All that traveling to exciting places gets you jabbed quite a bit. Couple more wonít make me any dumber.
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Old 12-27-20, 05:47 AM
  #73  
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As of today, somewhere over 1.1 million have been vaccinated in the U.S. and they are approaching a million in the UK. Seven people have had serious allergic reactions that have needed an epipen or more serious treatment for allergic reactions but all have recovered. I have two cousins in front line health care that have had the vaccine- no issues. I call that safe.
Some people in the thread have talked about a risk based approach. Framing it: if you are on the front lines of service delivery or health care then you are at a greater risk to have COVID kill you than the current vaccines. If you are 70 or older same goes with the additional "bonus" that you probably don't need to care about side effects that are 30 years off.
By the time a healthy person between the ages of 20-60 not on the front lines is even eligible to get the vaccine, many tens of millions will have had both doses. And if you tell me you're worried about risk of long term side effects and you're not fighting greenhouse gasses for all you're worth (and we're cyclists so many of us do), then I suggest you re-think that phrase "long term risk".

Last edited by Dsheidlo; 12-31-20 at 06:38 AM. Reason: clear up ambiguity
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Old 12-30-20, 01:46 PM
  #74  
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For those who don't want to watch the long Dr. Offit video, here's a brief FAQ provided by a physician friend of mine who has been delivering babies for COVID patients:

COVID VACCINE FACTS AND FAQs
COVID vaccines are here, extremely effective, and safe!

Pfizer and Moderna make the mRNA COVID vaccines which are 95% effective 1-2 weeks after 2nd dose and both vaccines have received approval for use in the U.S.

The mRNA in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines instructs the body to produce spike proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) which then triggers your immune system to make antibodies against the spike protein of the virus (those spiky things on the outside surface in the drawings of the virus). The antibodies will then attack SARS-CoV-2 if you get infected and prevent you from getting really sick.
  • There is NO WAY to produce an active virus with these vaccines.
  • You will NOT get COVID-19 from these vaccines.
  • Receiving the vaccine is completely voluntary.
  • Short term side effects are more frequent with these mRNA vaccines but clearly outweighed by the benefit of vaccination.
The mRNA is delivered in a lipid (fat) bubble and it seems the side effects are due to ingredients of that lipid nanoparticle.
No long term side effects seen. Side effects last 1-3 days, most of the time last 1 day.
Older people have less side effects, and side effects are more common after second dose. If you donít experience side effects, the vaccine is still working.

Side effects are similar to COVID symptoms. Side effects most commonly occur on day 1 (day you got vaccine).
#1 side effect: sore arm.
Next most common side effects: fatigue, headache.
Muscle and joint pain more common after getting second dose.
Up to 16% will get fever (much higher rate than after a flu vaccine where 1-2% get a fever).
So itís recommended people take 1-2 days off after getting the vaccine in case you experience side effects. A strong reaction to the vaccine with side effects means your immune system is working.
Take acetaminophen and ibuprofen as needed after receiving the vaccine to help treat any side effects.

First dose efficacy is only 50% and effects will probably not last long. Need both doses!
And you canít mix them up! If you start with a Pfizer vaccine, you need a second dose of the Pfizer vaccine!

Register for the free CDC V-Safe Immunization Tracker online after getting the vaccine. Will track your symptoms using your smartphone. It also reminds you to get the second dose of the vaccine when due.

The vaccine will be free for everyone!
There will be no cost to receiving the vaccine through your doctor. No company is allowed to charge administration fees to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Walgreens and CVS will give out the vaccines by government contract.

Is someone contagious for COVID after receiving the vaccine?
No! Theyíre not being given COVID virus in the vaccine, just the mRNA for the spike protein.
They can be contagious if they got infected before receiving the vaccine

Can receiving the mRNA vaccine result in a positive COVID-19 PCR or antigen test?
No! This is impossible, so a positive test is considered a new diagnosis, not the result of the vaccine

How long will vaccine immunity last?
We donít know for sure. Vaccine trials started end of July, so August 2021 would be when we get 1 yr data on how long immunity lasts. But research shows that immunity from the vaccine will likely last years. Even if antibody blood tests are negative, the memory B and T cells still have great response months afterward.

People who got a COVID-19 infection
The vaccines seem to give longer lasting protection, so vaccination is recommended regardless of prior COVID infection. People who got a mild COVID infection seems to have immunity that wanes. For people who got a more severe infection, their immunity lasts longer.

New UK COVID variant
Spread thought to be due to superspreader event (rave party).
New variant does not make you sicker and no hard evidence that UK strain is more transmissible.
We expect the new strain to also be covered by the two current vaccines which leads to antibodies against multiple sites of the spike protein.

There are currently no current mutations in the COVID-19 virus that would compromise vaccine efficacy. However, that may change next year. Viruses can and do mutate but would need many more mutations in SARS-CoV-2 before vaccine efficacy would be affected.
Will have more hard data in 2 wks after genomic sequencing of the new variant.

Someone with severe allergic reactions to medications or food
Not a contraindication. People with history of severe allergic reactions not related to vaccines or injectable medications may still get vaccines.
The allergic reactions are most likely due to polyethylene glycol (PEG) which is present in both mRNA vaccines to stabilize the lipids which are the delivery vehicle for the mRNA.
PEG is found in laxatives, skin cream, personal lubricants, and is an antifoaming agent in food and drinks.
Very common product but very uncommon allergy.
If you have this allergy, you can still get the vaccine but get the vaccine at a location where epinephrine can be given immediately as needed and you can be monitored for at least 30min after receiving shot.

Two groups who should not get these vaccines. Those who had:
1. Severe allergic reaction to any ingredient in COVID vaccine
2. Severe allergic reaction after getting first shot of the COVID vaccine
People with a history of anaphylaxis reaction to vaccines or drugs given via intramuscular injection should discuss with doctor risks of getting the vaccine and be monitored for at least 30min after receiving shot
Ok to take antihistamine before getting the vaccine (make sure to check your antihistamine does not contain PEG).

How did they make a vaccine in less than a year?
Yes, this is the fastest that vaccines were created and these mRNA vaccines are brand new. However, the success we have with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is not an ďovernight success.Ē The success is due to the worldís scientists and researchers dropping everything to focus on stopping COVID-19 using research from the past 30 yrs. The COVID genome was sequenced in January and shared widely so scientists worldwide did not need the actual virus to start their research.
This new mRNA technology is also easily scaled up for manufacturing rather than the old way of making vaccines by growing them in cell cultures. So itís faster and easier to make than many vaccines we have today.
Last, this is the result of hundreds of millions invested up front. These companies took a risk money-wise. Usually companies will wait until the safety data is done and they receive government approval before producing the vaccine. However, they all saw the need to have a protective vaccine as soon as possible. So the companies decided to scale up production of the vaccine as soon as they had a vaccine created. They hoped that their vaccines would be safe and effective and wanted to make sure there was an instant supply if their vaccine got approved.

Was safety compromised in the rush to approve the vaccine?
No, these vaccines went through the exact same safety trials required for any vaccine. 70,000 people were in the mRNA vaccine trials. This is way more safety data than most medicines when they go to market.
The FDA wanted two months of safety data after getting the vaccine, just the same as prior vaccines that were approved by the FDA.
Usually if you have a serious side effect, you find it out very quickly after administration. Looking back at the extremely rare side effects from polio, flu, rotavirus, yellow fever vaccine, you find out within 6 wks.
No uncommon serious side effect seen within 8 wks of getting this mRNA vaccine.

How long does the vaccine genetic material stay in the body?
Most of vaccine components is degraded within 8 hrs.
All mRNA should be degraded within 24 hr.

Children
Vaccine will NOT be administered to children. No children under 12 yo were included in any trials. Currently Pfizer vaccine is approved for 16 yo and up. Moderna vaccine is approved for 18 yo and up. Studies for appropriate dosing in children are ongoing.

Immunocompromised patients (cancer, transplant, etc)
Other than HIV patients, this group was not studied in trials. No expected increased risk from vaccine.
These groups still need to be vaccinated but we know their response to vaccines are not as strong as healthy individuals, so we donít expect vaccine efficacy to reach 95% in these groups.

Bellís palsy as a side effect
People get Bellís palsy spontaneously for unknown reasons. Bellís palsy not that uncommon after immunizations. Comes up with every vaccine.
In Pfizer study, 4 people who got the vaccine got Bellís palsy (1 had a history of Bellís palsy).
In Moderna study, 3 people who got the vaccine and 1 person who got placebo got Bellís palsy.
Numbers too small to tell right now if thatís higher than background rate.
Need more data, so this will continue to be monitored.

When can we go to packed concerts and stadiums?
When approx 74% of the adult population vaccinated. Estimates are between 63-83% of the population needs to be vaccinated to get herd immunity. Not sure when thatíll happen, because itís dependent on people agreeing to get vaccinated.
So mask wearing, frequent hand washing, etc. continues for everyone for now.

Unknowns
These vaccines protects you from getting sick from COVID-19, but it is not proven whether it will prevent you from infecting other people if you do get the virus. That means that a vaccinated person who gets infected will not get sick but may infect unvaccinated people around them.
Because we arenít sure if the vaccine will slow transmission of the virus, mask wearing, frequent hand washing, etc. continues for everyone for now.

AstraZeneca and Janssen/Johnson & Johnson vaccines will likely apply for expedited approval next February. AstraZeneca and J/J&J vaccines uses a viral vector which has been used once before for the Ebola vaccine (which has a good safety profile and well tolerated by people who received them) though I donít know the details of the side effects for the AstraZeneca COVID vaccine. The AstraZeneca vaccine is 70% effective which is still considered very effective for a vaccine and is much easier to transport and store. These vaccines will be very useful for low resource areas.

The good news if you are hesitant about getting the vaccine: there will be a lot more safety data coming out in the next few months as millions of healthcare workers are getting vaccinated now.

The good news if you are eager to get the vaccine: by early April, we expect COVID vaccines will be available for everyone if we have four vaccines approved by then as expected.

Why I got the vaccine
#igottheshot because I have seen my patients experience the most devastating loss and the most extreme joy alone. Because seeing over 319,000 dead is tragic. Because I see the massive joblessness, homelessness and food insecurity brought about by the pandemic. But most of all, to protect all of you, my friends and family, who are reading this post and who are important to me
I recognize my enormous privilege in receiving this vaccine early, and I am indebted to the worldís scientific community that made this vaccine possible. This vaccine is a lifesaver

Feel free to share. We all have a role to combat misinformation. #thisisourshot
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Old 12-31-20, 06:25 AM
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work4bike
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I'm not going to be running out to get the vaccine, not that I'm worried about the safety of the vaccine; I'm just not as worried about Covid as so many others -- what can I say, I'm an animal

The main reason I'm not going to run out and get one, is because there is a limited supply and I know there are some anti-vaxxers out there, but from what I've seen with everything considered, I do believe people are really freaked out and there will be very long lines to get these shots.

I say, let them have it if that'll calm them down; no need for me to take someone else's dosage.

I think this video should reduce any anxiety anyone has over the safety of this vaccine, except for the super anti-vaxxers -- you'll never change the mind of conspiracy theorists. They live in a very powerful echo chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2VRaIzj28&t=2s
Already starting to see some serious lines for the vaccine shots. I knew the fear of the disease is far greater than the fear of the vaccine.
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