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Yes, employers can require vaccination.

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Yes, employers can require vaccination.

 
Old 12-21-20, 12:35 PM
  #1  
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Yes, employers can require vaccination.

Now, this might get interesting over the next few months. Looks like the laws will support a business that insists on employee vaccinations. Get vaxxed or get fired. I'm OK with it, but I do find it surprising and look forward to the fireworks...
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Old 12-21-20, 12:45 PM
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There might be ways around this. I have struggled with severe allergies which have left me turning blue and struggling for breath. This may get me out of the jab. There is always the option of bribing, err persuading a doctor to give you a note or a fake vac.cert.

I was asked to do some overseas work a few years ago. The job would have required vaccination and a long flight, but no more pay than usual. I did not care about the vaccinations, but I despise airline flights so I declined. I kept the job for ten more years.

If your employer wants you gone they will find a reason. If they wish to keep you they will find some excuse.
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Old 12-21-20, 01:10 PM
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I've already read in one of these threads I think that even some hospitals with union representation can't force their frontline workers to get the shot.
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Old 12-21-20, 01:51 PM
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Agreed, it's pretty clear that one can be exempted, either due to conflict with a disability or a religious belief. But, as Schwinneffect said above, "... wants you gone, they'll find a reason." Most states are "work at will" so there's rarely a hard line to prevent a breakup. I'm interested because I was talking to a relative this weekend who runs a tech business that does aerospace contracting for the government. He's telling his employees this week that they must get vaccinated and back in the shop ASAP. Or find a new job.
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Old 12-21-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinneffect View Post
There might be ways around this. I have struggled with severe allergies which have left me turning blue and struggling for breath. This may get me out of the jab. There is always the option of bribing, err persuading a doctor to give you a note or a fake vac.cert.

I was asked to do some overseas work a few years ago. The job would have required vaccination and a long flight, but no more pay than usual. I did not care about the vaccinations, but I despise airline flights so I declined. I kept the job for ten more years.

If your employer wants you gone they will find a reason. If they wish to keep you they will find some excuse.

I think there's going to be some tough cases where the employee has legitimate, even compelling reasons for not getting it, but the employer has compelling reasons for requiring it--jobs with high likelihood of exposure, for example. If it does also turn out that the vaccine decreases the likelihood you can be a carrier, that's going to be even more likely.
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Old 12-21-20, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
Agreed, it's pretty clear that one can be exempted, either due to conflict with a disability or a religious belief. But, as Schwinneffect said above, "... wants you gone, they'll find a reason." Most states are "work at will" so there's rarely a hard line to prevent a breakup. I'm interested because I was talking to a relative this weekend who runs a tech business that does aerospace contracting for the government. He's telling his employees this week that they must get vaccinated and back in the shop ASAP. Or find a new job.

I don't think the religious belief is going to stop the employer from firing you unless (possibly) you work for the government. Even if it's a government employer, it's probably going to survive the Smith test--"you must be vaccinated to perform this job" serves a legitimate government interest and is a law of neutral applicability.
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Old 12-23-20, 09:19 PM
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Religious exemption doesn't make sense in this case. If I refuse to be vaccinated, my boss has to ask my permission to fire me, or at least I have veto power over being fired by saying it's because of gods instead of because of autism? Am I less dead because the cashier who gave it to me thinks God hates medicine?
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Old 12-23-20, 09:58 PM
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Old 12-24-20, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Religious exemption doesn't make sense in this case.
to me, it doesnt make any more or any less sense in this case compared to any other instance.
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Old 12-25-20, 10:03 AM
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I work for a large hospital system and they are not forcing vaccinations (at this point). I don't think they wanted the fight. I'm not sure what our competitors are doing.
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Old 12-25-20, 04:09 PM
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From what I've read while it's legal for companies to do so, many companies aren't planning to go that route. Instead, they plan to encourage vaccination and make sure it's available to their employees. It sounds like there are concerns about lawsuits if people have adverse reactions to the vaccines or if they cause long-term complications.
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Old 12-25-20, 05:28 PM
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During a measles outbreak a couple decades ago, my employer required measles vaccination. COVID vaccinations will not be required.
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Old 12-25-20, 10:11 PM
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and if you get injured from a rushed vaccine , made by mega corps that care nothing for your health and safety , mega corps that make cigarettes and synthetic opioids next door to the vaxx fac , GUESS its better luck next life HUH , OH corporate sponsored medical industry save us from DEATH , allow us to DIE slower at a controlled rate that also profits your investors in the medical service side :/

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Old 12-25-20, 11:52 PM
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Adolf Coors provides ice cold cheap swill to drowned the covid blues. Don’t care for opiates except after a surgery but get off them ASAP and go back to ibuprofen and Coors. I have no problem taking the vaccine and this point.
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Old 12-26-20, 12:23 AM
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To no one in particular, the singular "you" just works better grammatically.

"It's your obligation to live by your own religious beliefs."
"Your religious beliefs are not my obligations."

Commentary:
But, religious privilage being what it is, this has been changing over the years. I have no doubt some yahoo, somewhere will assert it's his/her God given right to be disrespectful of others rights to life & liberty by risking others with infection & it's societies job to to make sure he/she can seek employment anywhere he wants no matter how disqualified he chooses to make himself or the danger or risk of infringment to the rights of others he presents. The stacked court system that will probably go along with it so as not to appear to be persecuting some religious majority with the burdens basic civility & kindness or some such non-sense.

Probability:
Exemptions & excuses will likely be allowed with out consequence because wanting your rights with out acknowledging your responsibilities is called adolescence & that's just how we do things in America now.

Opinion:
If I were an employer & the vaccine offends you, you are not a suitable candidate for employment. Your rights are not harmed. You are free to seek employment within the religious compound you reside, or anywhere else the wind blows. The Amish, the Mennonites...They are great examples to be followed if you wish to use or be credible in your "religious freedom" argument. To which, I would respect to no end. You just would not be my employee as you are unwilling to conduct yourself in a safe manner in accordance with posted policies or be respectful of others. If I were an employer, I can see no way it would make business sense to accept the kind of liability you bring to the table.


...And if I have to use the phrase "Personal deeply held belief." Then so be it...Because you can apply that phrase to anything.

Last edited by base2; 12-26-20 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 12-31-20, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinneffect View Post
There might be ways around this. I have struggled with severe allergies which have left me turning blue and struggling for breath. This may get me out of the jab. There is always the option of bribing, err persuading a doctor to give you a note or a fake vac.cert. ..
..... My My fellow ameriKans ...
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Old 12-31-20, 07:01 PM
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Anyone in health care should be required to get the vaccine. Ditto most people in jobs that demand contact with the public, which pretty much covers the entire service industry.

Any of us who were in the military had up to a dozen or more vaccines, depending on duty station. I never had any bad reactions to those. Although the plague shot made most of us feel stoned. Or so it seemed. None of us knew what being stoned felt like. Said so right on our applications for military service. But it felt like the dreaded symptoms of stoniness we were warned against by the friendly folks in blue at school.

However the Navy didn't require me to get another DPT shot because I'd had an anaphylaxis at age 12 from my last tetanus shot -- my entire right side swelled, and it might have killed me if the shot had been in my left arm. I never had another DPT shot and have no idea whether it's the D, P or T, since those were usually bundled. I don't know whether the technology has changed to minimize those rare reactions.

I'm sympathetic to concerns about side effects. It's possibly my auto immune disorder (Hashimoto's) was provoked by either exposure to hepatitis or the gamma globulin shot for hepatitis. That was around 1981, when I was working in hemodialysis with patients who had kidney failure, and many patients had hepatitis. That was also the early days of HIV. Even tho I was meticulous to avoid an accidental needle stick, Hep A can be transmitted the same was as colds and the flu.

As soon as I developed jaundice and the weird white poops my doc jabbed me with gamma globulin, hoping to fend off the worst of it. I had an almost immediate reaction and felt dizzy and nauseous within 15 minutes (I have no psychosomatic fear of needles -- I even stuck myself to draw my own blood while in the Navy for our quarterly blood labs, to make sure I felt what my patients felt, although the light gauge butterflies for small blood draws aren't comparable to the pencil thick needles used for hemodialysis and blood donations).

I was so sick I had to drop out of college that semester and quit work for a few months. It was a year before I felt better and never really did recover. I'd been a competent and competitive amateur boxer and occasionally raced crits and time trials. I never again had the energy or strength to compete, although I'm still active at age 63 -- just slow.

So, yeah, I'm sympathetic to fears of vaccines. But reactions are rare. I just had bad luck.

My solution would be universal affordable health care, to ensure that everyone is covered in case of a rare side effect from cooperating with a national immunization program. Nobody should have to go through my mess of decades with inadequate health care and lingering problems. In 2018 I finally got good health care through the VA, so things are better now. But if we'd had a comprehensive national health care program years ago I might still be working full time today at a job I loved, but had to quit because of incompetent diagnostics more than 25 years ago.

We do it for active duty military, and now for veterans (although some regions still have problems, but Texas is excellent for veterans). We do it for Congress and all executives and federal judges in the federal gummint. Civil servants have greatly subsidized and affordable insurance premiums. Every American should have the same access to affordable health care, both in terms of insurance against catastrophic losses, and affordable access to routine and maintenance health care that shouldn't need "insurance" to pay.
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