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particular situation: are hydraulics worth it?

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particular situation: are hydraulics worth it?

Old 11-13-16, 05:21 AM
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spectastic
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particular situation: are hydraulics worth it?

I bought a bike with ultegra hydraulics, and they feel nice and all, but I've heard that bb7's are almost as good. Is this true? I'm thinking about down grading to 5800 shifters and bb7's, and sell the hydraulic lever/brakes for around $400 (they're pretty new), reason being my race bike has 5800, and it would be nice to have that cross compatibility. in addition, it feels weird to commute on such a fancy bike, like even fancier than my race bike. but then again, hydraulic discs seems to be more future proof. what do you think?

actually after looking on ebay, it appears $400 is very optimistic, and I'll only get <$100 savings after shipping and transaction fees. so screw it. I'll just have to crash less often

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Old 11-13-16, 10:46 AM
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I had Tektro Draco hydraulics on my rigid 29er. When I wanted to put on a Jones bar, the lines were just too short.

Replacing the lines was going to be kind of a pain in the butt and not cheap. A friendly lbs mechanic quoted over $100, but said "you know, if it were me...I'd just put on bb7s with compressionless housing and be done with it, they're every bit as good."

So that's exactly what I did. Found them on sale for $50 a pair, put them on and IMO he was right. I can't notice a difference in stopping power, and they are relatively easy to adjust. Although I'm admittedly comparing them to a low end hydraulic, based on my experience I wouldn't be compelled to pay a premium to get hydraulic disc brakes on a future bike.
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Old 11-13-16, 12:25 PM
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most of that $100 is probably labor. brake lines can be had for pretty cheap, maybe $20? the rest is bleeding it. bleed kit, can be had for around $20. and it's not hard, at all. plus, it's only mineral oil, so it's ok to screw up. hose isn't normally a perishable item. it's usually the mineral oil, which is also pretty cheap. if I were to choose between disc or hydraulic, I'd probably pick bb7's. but this deal came up, and it was too good to pass up.
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Old 11-13-16, 01:01 PM
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For non-MTB uses I don't see a lot of difference in hydro/mech brakes. I have both and they both work pretty well, pad & housing choice seem to be the biggest determinants of making the two systems equal.

I have a set of low end Tektro Novelas and with the right pads/bed-in they're almost indistinguishable from Deore hydros on road/gravel.

For MTB or competitive cross I could see a big advantage to having hydros but it really depends on if you can use the additional modulation and overall stopping ability. I can't push my cross bike that hard but I can wring out my MTB enough that I want hydros on it.

Being that I kill frames, I've given up being future proof. The only thing I ever upgrade are wheels and when my current bike dies I'll flip the used parts for a pittance and just buy a new complete bike. I've done the full parts transfer to a new frame a couple times and I'd rather just take the loss and buy new to get the new tech and parts.
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Old 11-13-16, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
For non-MTB uses I don't see a lot of difference in hydro/mech brakes. I have both and they both work pretty well, pad & housing choice seem to be the biggest determinants of making the two systems equal.

I have a set of low end Tektro Novelas and with the right pads/bed-in they're almost indistinguishable from Deore hydros on road/gravel.

For MTB or competitive cross I could see a big advantage to having hydros but it really depends on if you can use the additional modulation and overall stopping ability. I can't push my cross bike that hard but I can wring out my MTB enough that I want hydros on it.

Being that I kill frames, I've given up being future proof. The only thing I ever upgrade are wheels and when my current bike dies I'll flip the used parts for a pittance and just buy a new complete bike. I've done the full parts transfer to a new frame a couple times and I'd rather just take the loss and buy new to get the new tech and parts.
pads, i can understand. housing? i struggle to see the variables. you mean good quality cable housing?
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Old 11-13-16, 05:35 PM
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Good quality compressionless housing is essential for mechanical discs. Regular brake housing makes mechanical discs mushy, have much too long pad travel and changes the modulation in a unfavorable way.

There are quite a few types at the OEM level and Jagwire, Yokozuna and Nashbar seem to have the aftermarket locked up. I prefer the Nashbar type as it is extremely stiff and gives a solid feel that is the best I've experienced. Jagwire is next but it has a little bit more flex so braking is slightly less firm but it is easier to work with. Never seen any Yokozuna in the wild. OEM stuff is hit/miss, some of Diamondback's stuff is ok, Specialized is generally "good" as is Trek - not much experience with others.

If your mechanical disc brakes kinda suck or don't perform like you think they should - get some Nashbar compressionless housing, it can be quite transformative

Nashbar MTB Mechanical Disc Brake Cable and Housing Set.
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Old 11-13-16, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
pads, i can understand. housing? i struggle to see the variables. you mean good quality cable housing?
Good quality COMPRESSIONLESS brake housing. It makes a huge difference on any kind of brake, but doubly so with discs since the cable run to the brake is so much longer.
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Old 11-13-16, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
...There are quite a few types at the OEM level and Jagwire, Yokozuna and Nashbar seem to have the aftermarket locked up. I prefer the Nashbar type as it is extremely stiff and gives a solid feel that is the best I've experienced. Jagwire is next but it has a little bit more flex so braking is slightly less firm but it is easier to work with. ...
Nashbar MTB Mechanical Disc Brake Cable and Housing Set.
Multiple review comments on the Nashbar page say the Nashbar housing IS Jagwire housing, so curious about the above-noted stiff/flex difference, unless Nashbar is custom spec'ed. Also note that the Nashbar cable hass mountain-bike end, so a road inner cable will have to be purchased separately.
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Old 11-13-16, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by austex View Post
Multiple review comments on the Nashbar page say the Nashbar housing IS Jagwire housing, so curious about the above-noted stiff/flex difference, unless Nashbar is custom spec'ed. Also note that the Nashbar cable hass mountain-bike end, so a road inner cable will have to be purchased separately.
as long as it has longitudinal strands, and not helical coils; it's "compressionless" and will be better than the normal brake housing. different grades of that are probably indistinguishable among different brands, but all will be better than helical coil brake housing.
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Old 11-13-16, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by austex View Post
Multiple review comments on the Nashbar page say the Nashbar housing IS Jagwire housing, so curious about the above-noted stiff/flex difference, unless Nashbar is custom spec'ed.
I looked into this a few months ago and couldn't come to any conclusion but I'd wager they're/you're right in that it's made by Jagwire. But I think it's a custom spec as it is very different than the Jagwire branded housing sets I've had come through the shop - stiffer and with a smoke translucent outer jacket. As mentioned above I think the extra stiffness makes it the best option for mech brakes but it is harder to route and probably heavier.

Note that it also does not include flex-ends for routing into integrated road shifters. Some shifters work fine without the flex ends but some do not.

Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt View Post
as long as it has longitudinal strands, and not helical coils; it's "compressionless" and will be better than the normal brake housing.
Just to clarify, it's not just the longitudnal strands. It's those strands plus a kevlar jacket that makes this work. I only say this because we still see people come in trying to use derailleur housing for their brakes.
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Old 11-13-16, 10:25 PM
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The Nashbar housing is Jagwire's cheap housing. It says so right on the cable. Jagwire usually sells it in big rolls. Nashbar sells it in smaller packages.

It's nothing special, but it works. I'm using it on two bikes.
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Old 11-14-16, 10:34 PM
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how much does compressionless housing help rim brakes?
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Old 11-14-16, 11:18 PM
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I ride bikes that I put together on a budget. I also race bikes. Well, did race. Blah. Anyhow I had people tell me I needed to go to disc brakes long before I ever did. I liked my rim brakes, and didn't think I needed anything better. Then I wanted a new bike, but instead just upgraded to BB7 brakes. LOVED those buggers to death! Bought a couple sets for other bikes as well. Well after a year I wanted a new bike again, but like last time, just upgraded the brakes. I bought Shimano hydros from amazon, for like $120ish. Didn't think it would be that big of a deal, but OMG, I love the hydros! One finger braking no matter what. I had fallen in love with the BB7's, but for the price and performance of the shimano hydros, it is simply a no-brainer in my opinion to go with the hydralics. Can't explain it, have to ride it. For commuting, it likely doesn't matter. I haven't had a problem with any of my BB7's or the budget Shimano hyrdos I got. Discs > rim brakes. Where you go from there, is a toss up depending on what you're doing.

And to the poster above me about compressionless housing, are you running good pads, have you de-glazed them? Cleaned the brake surface on your wheels? I've ran good housing and cheap housing, the best performance benefit I've noticed is clean wheels and making sure the pads aren't glazed and also line them up properly.
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Old 11-15-16, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post

Note that it also does not include flex-ends for routing into integrated road shifters. Some shifters work fine without the flex ends but some do not.
Not sure what flex-ends are. Could someone explain this to me? I have SRAM Apex brifters. Will this work for me?
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Old 11-15-16, 12:53 PM
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TRP HyRd simplifies Road hydro disc brakes by putting Master and slave pistons both in the caliper..

Their production ramped up , now new bikes are fitting them, like Trek 720.

the Other TRP Spyre mechanical has both pads moving to the disc [BB7 1 is fixed]

Spyke is the TRP V pull Mechanical disc, but I Gather, this is about road bikes..




'/,
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Old 11-15-16, 01:04 PM
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Im using the Magura HS-33 hydro rim brakes for 4 years + .. after doing a hose extension , after I brought my bars Up

all I've done is replace brake shoes* there is a Kool Stop 'Salmon' (Wild Caught.. farmed salmon is not the same color)

The German company just got the Oregon KS company to ship the pads to them, and they redistributed them back ..

now I can get them from domestic channels .. they* literally snap into place. http://www.koolstop.com/english/hs_33.html




...
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Old 11-15-16, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
how much does compressionless housing help rim brakes?
Can help. Not as much as disc brakes, where the mechanical arms and motions are small, and housing squish is a larger fraction of the overall system.

First, examine housing runs - no excess looping or double curve runs. Next, make sure all housing ends are finished square (I use a Dremel cut-off wheel), not just cut with diag cutters, and that ends or feruled ends sit firmly and squarely in housing stops.

If you still want to eliminate flex, use compressionless housing, but be aware that its stiffness can make it challenging to work with, won't make tight bends very well.
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Old 11-17-16, 07:47 AM
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I rode TRP Spyres on a demo road bike in the mountains and they were a joke. Even after fiddling with setup they were nowhere near as good as my Dura Ace 9000 rim calipers. My SRAM force hydraulic discs on my other bike are a lot better than my Dura Ace calipers. Mechanical is a step back in my opinion.
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