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Alternatives to Cyclocross gearing

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Alternatives to Cyclocross gearing

Old 11-28-16, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sullalto
Aren't chainrings speed agnostic for the most part?

Chainrings are not agnostic :-)


The bolt hole diameter limits the minimum number of teeth.


130 BCD crankshaft can accept a 38t but a 39 teeth chainring is the usual minimum.


110 BCD "Compact" crankshaft can accept a 33t but a 34 teeth chainring is the usual minimum.
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Old 11-29-16, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Chainrings are not agnostic :-)


The bolt hole diameter limits the minimum number of teeth.


130 BCD crankshaft can accept a 38t but a 39 teeth chainring is the usual minimum.


110 BCD "Compact" crankshaft can accept a 33t but a 34 teeth chainring is the usual minimum.
I'm not referring to BCD or gearing. I'm referring to chains. I've seen cranksets advertised as 9/10 or 10/11 or 7/8/9 speed at various times. Meaning matching the crankset isn't a huge priority.
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Old 11-30-16, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sullalto
I'm not referring to BCD or gearing. I'm referring to chains. I've seen cranksets advertised as 9/10 or 10/11 or 7/8/9 speed at various times. Meaning matching the crankset isn't a huge priority.
FWIW, I swapped a 36t chainring on 10 speed drivetrain for a 34t from an 8 speed drivetrain...no issues.
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Old 11-30-16, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sullalto
I'm not referring to BCD or gearing. I'm referring to chains. I've seen cranksets advertised as 9/10 or 10/11 or 7/8/9 speed at various times. Meaning matching the crankset isn't a huge priority.
Ive used 7sp rings and crankset for a 9sp drivetrain.
Ive used 10sp rings and crankset for an 11sp drivetrain.

From what I can gather, it does matter a bit. 10/11 sp cranks have the rings a little closer together than 7sp drivetrains.
An 11sp chain has a higher chance of skating across the rings if they are too far apart.
Rings are ramped and pinned to accept speed specific chains.


Those are 3 things I have read multiple times from Zinn and other sites like that(so not just random internet opinions). No idea if they are accurate or more of just a recommended guideline. No idea if how I described them is good.
Both my drivetrains that use lower speed cranks are friction shifting, for what thats worth.
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Old 11-30-16, 02:29 PM
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Yeah, chainring "speeds" are somewhat flexible, in my experience. My rule of thumb is 2 "speeds" is OK (like using a 8 spd crankset with 10 spd chain), but no more. Like [MENTION=385973]mstateglfr[/MENTION], my experience is mostly friction shifting with bar-ends.

If you use indexed STI front shifting, then the chainrings may be more picky. STI indexed shifting seems to rely more upon the ramps and pins on the chainrings, which are designed specifically for that "speed" of chain.
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Old 11-30-16, 09:14 PM
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Timely thread.

I've thought long & hard on my next drivetrain. Having a custom 650b all-road built up.

I was greatly impressed by a friend on a bike in his low gear, 22x36 17gi~, seated and smoothly spinning up a 15% dirt rocky grade, while I was in my low gear, 30x28 29gi~, and having to deliver more torque to make the climb...

...and although I had the power to do it, just because of the nature of the effort and the torque involved, I was fishtailing a bit and having to be real careful about my weight distribution and such in order to make sure I wasn't losing traction.

Friend's bike had no high end though...basically mountain bike gears.

Keeping the rear wheel planted on the steep & loose is critical, and if you can spin it, you're going to be smooth and not slipping.

Soooooo...

I'm thinking of using the next Dura Ace di2 hydro/disc levers and brakes with XTR Di2... and putting a 46/32 in the front with 11-42 in the rear for 21gi~ - 116gi~.

If I go mechanical I'll be using the TanPan by Wolftooth.

I won't go the Roadlink route, you need that chain clutched or you're going to throw it.
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Old 12-01-16, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UnfilteredDregs
Timely thread.

I've thought long & hard on my next drivetrain. Having a custom 650b all-road built up.

I was greatly impressed by a friend on a bike in his low gear, 22x36 17gi~, seated and smoothly spinning up a 15% dirt rocky grade, while I was in my low gear, 30x28 29gi~, and having to deliver more torque to make the climb...

...and although I had the power to do it, just because of the nature of the effort and the torque involved, I was fishtailing a bit and having to be real careful about my weight distribution and such in order to make sure I wasn't losing traction.

Friend's bike had no high end though...basically mountain bike gears.

Keeping the rear wheel planted on the steep & loose is critical, and if you can spin it, you're going to be smooth and not slipping.

Soooooo...

I'm thinking of using the next Dura Ace di2 hydro/disc levers and brakes with XTR Di2... and putting a 46/32 in the front with 11-42 in the rear for 21gi~ - 116gi~.

If I go mechanical I'll be using the TanPan by Wolftooth.

I won't go the Roadlink route, you need that chain clutched or you're going to throw it.
That would be a great drivetrain using the most advanced components.

An old-school solution that provides a huge 22 to 109 gear-range can be achieved by using a Deore 48, 36 & 26 "Trekking" triple and replacing the 26 granny gear with a 22t. I can use a 12-36 nine speed cassette, but actually use a 12-27 with a tight 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-27 progression. I'm on the middle chainring from 8 to 24mph and only use the small chainring on climbs steeper than 6 percent. I can stay seated and smoothly spin as I climb up the 20% ascents, using the 22 chainring. The 48 chainring is ideal for prolonged sections of a route that are flat or downhill, but unless I expect to exceed 23 mph, I don't use the big chainring.


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Last edited by Barrettscv; 12-01-16 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 12-01-16, 06:55 AM
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I'll throw in my pet 2x9, 23 inches to 95 inches in about 7-inch steps. Custom Miche cassette - on the 1x it has 5 narrow cruising gears and 4 wider climbing gears. Going to the granny ring will get you a 50" approach gear, then narrow steps to climb any grade with any load. Gears below 25" will get most people up an 18% grade.


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Old 12-01-16, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bulldog1935
I'll throw in my pet 2x9, 23 inches to 95 inches in about 7-inch steps. Custom Miche cassette - on the 1x it has 5 narrow cruising gears and 4 wider climbing gears. Going to the granny ring will get you a 50" approach gear, then narrow steps to climb any grade with any load. Gears below 25" will get most people up an 18% grade.




Very clever use of gear spacing to achieve tight cadence across the range. What Sugino Crank is that? It looks like a triple with a bash guard installed.




.
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Old 12-01-16, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Very clever use of gear spacing to achieve tight cadence across the range. What Sugino Crank is that? It looks like a triple with a bash guard installed.
.
You're exactly right, the Sugino XD2 triple with bash guard, middle ring and granny.

Thanks, I'm running a cyclotouriste triple on my Raleigh, and designed the compact double to percolate the essential gears from that.

Here's the cyclotouriste triple on my Raleigh - ran this for 6 years on my 40-y-o Grand Prix from college and recently moved the whole thing over to an International

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Old 12-01-16, 08:32 AM
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ps - cassette designers don't think. They give you a linear gradient in tooth count.
This gives you cliffs in the cruising range and useless narrow steps in the climbing range.
Spacing should be even on the semi-log plot.
Instead of linear tooth count, cassettes should be exponential.

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Old 12-01-16, 09:50 PM
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Triple. 30-39-52. I just keep it on the 39 ring for cross. Use the inner two rings for gravel and trails. Use the outer two like a standard double on the road. 12-25 10sp cassette.
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Old 12-02-16, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
That would be a great drivetrain using the most advanced components.

An old-school solution that provides a huge 22 to 109 gear-range can be achieved by using a Deore 48, 36 & 26 "Trekking" triple and replacing the 26 granny gear with a 22t. I can use a 12-36 nine speed cassette, but actually use a 12-27 with a tight 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-27 progression. I'm on the middle chainring from 8 to 24mph and only use the small chainring on climbs steeper than 6 percent. I can stay seated and smoothly spin as I climb up the 20% ascents, using the 22 chainring. The 48 chainring is ideal for prolonged sections of a route that are flat or downhill, but unless I expect to exceed 23 mph, I don't use the big chainring.
Very cool.

I settled on the final spec'.

Dura Ace Di2 hydro levers...

Will have a 42/32 in the front (White Industries R30 crank) that gives me a 10 tooth jump there which is within the XTR Di2 spec, unlike a 46/32. I'll be going SRAM 10-42 XX1 in the rear to make up for the high end. SGS derailleur capacity is 45, I'll be sitting at 42. 21gi~ - 119gi~.

Basically a mountain bike 1x and a cyclocross 1x...all on one bike.
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Old 12-07-16, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim_Iowa
She changed her mind and decided that 10-speed is OK, which will be simpler and save some money in the build.

So, I'm going to use 10-speed Shimano STI brifters and a 9-speed XT M772 RD to run an 11-36 cassette. 26 inch low gear should be good.
This is what I did for a long time, 46-34 crank with 11-36 cassette, and 9 speed rd. Works like a champ. On the Wolverine, I am about to go 46-36 with 11-42 cassette, using 11speed xt rd and bar end shifters, to give me a little extra gear for when I am carrying a bunch of stuff. I might order the 34t for my crank, if I feel like I need that little extra, but I probably won't need it.
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Old 02-04-17, 05:28 PM
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Well.... Since I wanted something for dirt roads and modest trails, to and from which I'd ride on the road, I got a 1x that came with a big ol' 11-42 cassette. The bike comes stock with a 40t chainring, but since I like to pedal on the descents, I got a 46t, for 29.9-114.2 gi. My road bike with compact crank gets 31.4-121.6 gi, so I figure this should be reasonably comparable in terms of total range. If I do decide to do something more like cyclocross with the steep bits and all, I could put the stock 40t back on, so I'd get down to 26 gi, but that 99gi top end just wouldn't do for descents on the road.
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Old 02-04-17, 09:49 PM
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My new Giramondo's GI range is about 19.6 to about 106 with 700/40c's. I can pedal on descents, and remain seated on steep stuff. It's a Deore 24/32/44 triple up front and an 11-36t cog in the back. This is 10 inches lower than my Lemond Tourmalet triple at both ends, on which I struggle to use the 52x12 combo except on long descents. I'm not sure what I would encounter that this range wouldn't provide me with good gearing options.
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Old 02-05-17, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11
This is highly location-specific and ride-specific. I've found 50-34 and 11-32 with a mid cage RD can handle any gravel situation I've encountered here in the Midwest. I've honestly never used the 34x32, that's a very, very low gear for this area. I spend the entire time in any race in the 50. I spend the vast majority of most of my training in the 50. YMMV obviously.
That's my "model" here in Michigan, too, except I run a 12-27. My 50t ring gets a lot of use. I wish my preferred wheelset was Campagnolo hubbed rather than Shimano so I could run a Chorus 11-29; I think that'd be ideal for me, especially being as overweight as I am now. Usually I can power up anything around here on the 34/27, but a little more spin would be handy for the steepest stuff these days!
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Old 02-25-17, 08:52 AM
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Shimano 105 5800 2x11 speed drivetrain with R785 Hydraulic STI brifters on a Raleigh Roker Comp. The crankset is a Shimano CX50, the 36 inner chainring has been replaced with a TA 33t. The 11-32 cassette has been replaced with a Sram PG-1130 11-36. I was able to change the chainring and cassette without any other modifications.


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