Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Gravel bike on the road

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Old 05-07-18, 05:48 AM
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Iím restoring a recently rescued 1990 Trek 750, which has turned out to be a rather interesting in that it shares a frame with that years 520 touring bike. More interestingly, though, is that it has geo identical with your average modern gravel bike. It rides spectacularly well on the road with a triple, 35c tires and a flat bar.

A round about answer to the op; todayís gravel bike rides on the road like a 90ís touring bike or a hybrid if you swap bars.



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Old 05-07-18, 06:49 AM
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Even if geometry were similar, a 1990 Trek 750 is going to feel completely different than a modern gravel bike.

A Niner RLT 9 RDO fits 42 mm tires, has mounts and room for fenders and mounts on the fork for bottle cages or panniers. I don't understand why anyone who has ridden one would say that the RDO is not comfortable enough to ride all day.
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Old 05-07-18, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post

A Niner RLT 9 RDO fits 42 mm tires, has mounts and room for fenders and mounts on the fork for bottle cages or panniers. I don't understand why anyone who has ridden one would say that the RDO is not comfortable enough to ride all day.
multiple days.... However in my opinion the 853 steel is more comfortable over the RDO. The 853 RLT with 40mm front suspension was mindblowing smooth.
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Old 05-07-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
The 853 RLT with 40mm front suspension
Niner doesn't offer a suspension fork on any RLT that I am aware of.

That is likely not a factory build but something put together by an individual or shop.

What kind of fork was it? A Louf?

-Tim-
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Old 05-07-18, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Niner doesn't offer a suspension fork on any RLT that I am aware of.

That is likely not a factory build but something put together by an individual or shop.

What kind of fork was it? A Louf?

-Tim-
for sure not factory. It was an MRP, sorry I don't have the specifics.
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Old 05-07-18, 10:08 AM
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Location/roads is everything and plays a huge part in selection, but If I could only have 1 bike the RDO would be a heavy contender.
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Old 05-07-18, 11:51 AM
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Fox has the AX fork for gravel bikes that has 40mm of travel. They're extremely expensive and I've never seen one or talked to anyone who has ridden one.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/firs-ride...-fork-float-32
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Old 05-07-18, 12:17 PM
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You guys see the niner RLT reviews by Clint on youtube?
pretty detailed, but very infomational.

He started with his CX bike,
Then got the Steel RLT. He never bonded with it. Sounds like it wasn'r really fast enough for the group rides he did. sold it and kept riding the CX bike.
Then he got the carbon RLT RDO. He totally fell in love with that. The cush of the Steel, Speed of the CX bike (actually faster in a lot of circumstances).

If he could only have one of the 3, clearly the carbon RLT RDO is his solution. I guess for the money, it should be.
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Old 05-07-18, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
Fox has the AX fork for gravel bikes that has 40mm of travel. They're extremely expensive and I've never seen one or talked to anyone who has ridden one.

https://www.cxmagazine.com/firs-ride...-fork-float-32
This was really interesting to read. Thanks for posting it.

I had seen something about that fork but had forgotten it. That would be really nice for bikepacking along the Pinhotti and similar.


-Tim-

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Old 05-07-18, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
You guys see the niner RLT reviews by Clint on youtube?
pretty detailed, but very infomational.

He started with his CX bike,
Then got the Steel RLT. He never bonded with it. Sounds like it wasn'r really fast enough for the group rides he did. sold it and kept riding the CX bike.
Then he got the carbon RLT RDO. He totally fell in love with that. The cush of the Steel, Speed of the CX bike (actually faster in a lot of circumstances).

If he could only have one of the 3, clearly the carbon RLT RDO is his solution. I guess for the money, it should be.
based on his reviews I almost didn't ride the steel RLT, after riding the RDO.
First impressions of the RDO, was omg this bike is way better than a large majority of the road bikes on the market. I was riding Rival on stans grails G'one tubeless. Don't take this next statement lightly because the RDO is damn smooth. I think Clint is wrong when he says the RDO has the cush of the steel.
I can see why he opted for the carbon RDO though. I'd make the same choice in his position.

I am torn, but given my average speed for this bike will be around 16 mph, I'll take the steel. Of course I was already in the market for more cush and 650b, but not now. I think the 853 steel RLT, on extralight Barlow Pass, or 700x38 Gravelking slicks is my answer.

biggest question will be on the build, Sram 1x, or the new clutched Shimano with Absoluteblack compact gravel 46/30 ovals.
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Old 05-08-18, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
biggest question will be on the build, Sram 1x, or the new clutched Shimano with Absoluteblack compact gravel 46/30 ovals.
I know, tough decision right?
I chose 2x because I needed the high speed and tight gear spacing required for a fast group ride on the road. But if my speeds were under 30mph and I wasn't trying to hang on to a paceline (i.e. if I could pick my own speed), I think 1x would be fine. I don't shift the front rings much - generally 36t on my own, and 46t with a paceline.
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Old 05-08-18, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I know, tough decision right?
I chose 2x because I needed the high speed and tight gear spacing required for a fast group ride on the road. But if my speeds were under 30mph and I wasn't trying to hang on to a paceline (i.e. if I could pick my own speed), I think 1x would be fine. I don't shift the front rings much - generally 36t on my own, and 46t with a paceline.
a lot less tough now, thank you. for those reason plus the reason I'd go steel over carbon = 1x. a carbon RDO would be 2x.

I am actually curious now on this topic. I found the G'ones tubeless to roll well but still have some draggy feeling to them on tarmac. I wonder just how fast a Niner RDO can be with a 35/38 Compass tire on pavement. the RDO is lively! the only things holding it back, were motor, and tires.
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Old 05-08-18, 12:04 PM
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I felt like 35 mm Schwalbe G-One tires set up tubeless roll as well as the older generation 25 mm Vittoria Rubino Slicks. The G-One's, or any high end tire for that matter, perform best when paired with a light wheel.

The Absolute Black rings are really interesting and I'd love to hear from someone who tried them in the real world.
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Old 05-08-18, 12:14 PM
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Personally, I find that G-Ones roll fast – they probably have between 15-20 watts rolling resistance, which is pretty darn good.

I do find that they are slightly heavy – when doing a fast road ride I am on slick tires that are about 300g lighter (pair), even if they have similar rolling resistance (about 17watts each). That and about 300gr savings in wheel weight makes for a fast bike.
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Old 05-08-18, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I felt like 35 mm Schwalbe G-One tires set up tubeless roll as well as the older generation 25 mm Vittoria Rubino Slicks. The G-One's, or any high end tire for that matter, perform best when paired with a light wheel.

The Absolute Black rings are really interesting and I'd love to hear from someone who tried them in the real world.
I had the ovals on my synapse. I loved them, but hated how picky they were at shifting. (105 10 speed) As in rpm and load played a huge part in if they shifted well or not well. For some this may not be bothersome, for me it was the most annoying thing ever. I liked them enough to never take them off until I sold the bike. New road bike is hollowgram spiders and di2. I have since put the 50t oval on my single speed and the benefit is huge!

Oval choice, also plays a part in a my new geared bike 1x/2x choice. 1x allows for the running of an oval without the shifting headache.

at the same time.... DI2 is awesome. would I give up di2 for a 1x... no! would di2 make a difference in the oval shifting, yes. you'll get the exact same torque / movement time and again. do I want di2 on a bike that would see over nights? weekend trips? all winter riding? probably not....

the other quirk I do not like about them is higher rpm gets weird like at 100+ its harder to spin. I often hit 120-130 on SS with the 48t round. I can't spin that fast with the 50t oval. but the 50T oval climbs and tractors into headwind advantages far outweigh the disadvantage of me not being able to spin the oval as fast.

I also have a 32t oval on my 29er hardtail that is XT 10 speed 11-36. the advantages of the oval on climbing, is enough for me to not bother with sunrace or a one up conversion. (west/central Ohio, and Scioto trails Great Seal state park Scioto trails Chillicothe Ohio area.)
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Old 05-08-18, 12:37 PM
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speaking of tires and roll resistance...... I did not check the psi difference between the steel RLT and the RDO. Even though both were set up on grail wheels same G'one tire tubeless. I do recall the rep telling me when I took off on the RDO that the pressure was good for the road. not checking the pressure difference was probably a hindsight on my part as for comparing the 2 bikes. In my opinion, a lb or 2 can change everything on comfort.
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Old 05-08-18, 02:04 PM
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When you say oval, do you mean Absolute Black or a different brand?

As an aside, I'd still like to ride a Jamis Renegade Elite. I tried to buy one sight unseen and would have purchased without so much as test ride but could not find one anywhere, not even one of the dumbed down "Performance Exclusive" models at Performance Bike. This bike looks like a great value. I say this as a happy owner of a Di2 Niner RLT 9 RDO. I'd still really like to ride the Jamis.


-Tim-

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Old 05-08-18, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
When you say oval, do you mean Absolute Black or a different brand?

As an aside, I'd still like to ride a Jamis Renegade Elite. I tried to buy one sight unseen and would have purchased without so much as test ride but could not find one anywhere, not even one of the dumbed down "Performance Exclusive" models at Performance Bike. This bike looks like a great value. I say this as a happy owner of a Di2 Niner RLT 9 RDO. I'd still really like to ride also own and ride the Jamis.


-Tim-
yes absoluteblack oval brand.

I fixed your quote for you. and you are welcome.
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Old 05-08-18, 04:20 PM
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My SuperX is every bit as fast as Bianchi 928 endurance bike on the road with the same tires FWIW, with the right geometry and frame construction cross/gravel bikes can be excellent at certain things but not excel at them all. Its stiffer and twitchier than most would like for long gravel rides and not as stable at speeds. Feels like a fat tired crit bike
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Old 05-08-18, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
As an aside, I'd still like to ride a Jamis Renegade Elite. I tried to buy one sight unseen and would have purchased without so much as test ride but could not find one anywhere, not even one of the dumbed down "Performance Exclusive" models at Performance Bike. This bike looks like a great value. I say this as a happy owner of a Di2 Niner RLT 9 RDO. I'd still really like to ride the Jamis.
I only own the Renegade Expert, which is a lower end heavier carbon frame with Shimano 105, but I absolutely love it and ride the snot out of it. Right now it's 22lbs with pedals, but I'm using WTB KOM i23 rims as warranty replacements for the STs i23 rims, so I dropped some weight there. Your RLT 9 RDO frameset and build is top notch, and the Renegade isn't going to offer you anything other than quicker steering. Enjoy your sweet Niner!

Back on the topic at hand, my Renegade has never worn thin, light road tires. I briefly had the stock tires, then Schwalbe G-One Allround 38c, then WTB Riddler 37c, and I just put on some Donnelly Strada USH 40c tires. I have some friends of similar ability and when we ride gravel and they have their CX/gravel bikes there's generally parity. On my better days I can drop them and vice-versa. When we're riding hard (not race-level hard) on pavement I can keep up, but it's work, and they can gap me on the steepest climbs on their road bikes. They've told me on numerous occasions they'd love to see what I could do with a road wheelset or a "proper" road bike. I myself am very curious to see how my Renegade would ride with some light carbon wheels and 28c tires.
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Old 05-09-18, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by birru View Post
I myself am very curious to see how my Renegade would ride with some light carbon wheels and 28c tires.
I do that (two wheelsets). My road wheelset saves about 600g off the gravel tire/wheelset (brings my bike down to the 16lb range). In my case, the cruising speed is probably similar as would a long gravel ride. But for out of the saddle acceleration and for climbing its a nice change. It increases my range a little too.

28mm tires reduces the trail slightly making the bike more agile, and of course the steering is much more precise with 28mm tires.
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Old 10-07-18, 08:16 AM
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IS it all the tires

It seems to me 90% of the responses end up being all about the tires. I also find it funny how so many people bash on hybrids. Funny because a gravel bike is much like a hybrid bike. It is a compromise largely built on tire type and handle bar type along with slightly tweaked geometry. Your hybrids range from cruisers to essentially flat bar road bikes with tires anywhere between 28 and 45 mm. Your gravel bikes range from stuff like the specialized diverge which I am see being sold with what amount to 30 mm slicks to toughroad gx with 38mm plus nobby wheels. Yet many who love gravel bikes as a go anywhere option will tell you even a performance hybrid is crap because it doesn't do anything well but is a compromise. Isn't that what a gravel bike is? A compromise it won't be as fast on the road as a dedicated road bike nor will it come anywhere close to handling anything but the tamest xc trails. Hey I love them all but I find the difference in opinions on hybrids and gravel bikes to be funny. About tires I put 35 mm clements on my 29er vs my maxxis ikons (2.25) and gained no speed at all but it sure made the ride rougher. Tempted by gravel bikes but I think that would be scary down some rocky rooted downhills in the northeast. Oh well N+1
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Old 10-07-18, 03:03 PM
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My ďgravelĒ bike is a Soma Fog Cutter, which has a fairly road-like geo (compared to other gravel bikes) but can take 42mm tires.

Running 35-38mm Compass tires, I never miss my old skinny-tired road bike, even on long rides with no dirt roads.

IMO gravel bikes are just road bikes that donít suck on gravel.
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Old 10-07-18, 04:11 PM
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Gravel bikes come with a huge variety of frame designs. Some are 29ers in disguise, some are just hybrids with drop bars, and some are just road bikes with enough extra room for bigger tires. My personal 'gravel' bike is about 1 mph slower for the same effort as my current road bike. The road bike is 5 pounds lighter and has 25mm vs 36mm tires. I recently switched back to the Clement 36 mm MSO's my Jamis Renegade came with since I found no advantage with a 32 mm road tire other than cornering feel, and it sucked on our gravel. I ride to our gravel; so I ride 12-16 miles of road before hitting gravel usually.
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Old 10-11-18, 12:15 PM
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I would personally not opt for 25s or 28s on a gravel bike, even if I was only using it for road. A pair of 32c Panaracer Gravel Kings, with their high thread count and nearly slick tread pattern, will make your ride SO much more comfortable, and whatever perceived friction drawback is negligible at best. Since you've got the clearance, take advantage of it!
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