Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 06-27-18, 05:00 PM
  #276  
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So I had been considering an adventure bike for a while now. After getting a recommendation from another cyclist, I decided to check out the Renegade. Went into my favorite bike shop to test ride both the 51 and 54cm Expat. Neither felt quite right, I was in between the two. The shop recommended I come back and try out the Escapade to compare since I wasnít sold on the Expat. I rode a 51cm with a longer stem. I was hooked right away. It was snappy and smooth. I ended up purchasing the Escapade that day, though I wonít pick it up until after the 4th (the front rotor was bent and I need to get fitted). Though itís quite a bit more expensive than the Expat, I think the price is justified. The mechanic at the shop said he wished he would have and Escapade instead of his titanium bike. He loves the frame.

Bottom line is Iím super pumped to become a Renegade owner. Now I need to decide on a rear rack, bottle cages, and bell to start. Eventually Iíll get a frame bag. I have loved reading this thread, it has definitely helped me solidify my decision.

Bottom line
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Old 06-27-18, 05:13 PM
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Been riding my new Exploit for the past week or so, including a hilly 40+ miler on Sunday morning. I am definitely planning on building a more road-ish wheel set for it and saving the factory wheels/tires for occasional long towpath rides. That aside, I love the bike so far. All I have changed is the seat. I didn't even bother trying the seat that came on it knowing it would be too narrow for me. I threw a Terry Liberator Y on it and am a happy camper.

Regarding frame bags, I did take this opportunity to sort of reboot how I do bags. On the used Raleigh I had been riding, I had been using a combination of a saddle bag (which holds spare tube, levers, patch kit, etc.) and a top tube bag (Revelate "Gas Can") and just wasn't terribly fond of the combination. I had tried one other cheap Amazon top tube bag before that (one of the ones with the clear phone holder) and hated it almost immediately. This time I impulse-bought a Banjo Brothers Minnehaha Series medium frame bag and consolidated the things from the other two bags into that. I added a bottle mount on the back of my seatpost for a second bottle cage (I use the seat tube mount for my bike lock). I am much happier with this combination and am now in much less of a rush to buy a rack/bag although I am sure I will eventually anyway.
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Old 06-27-18, 11:50 PM
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I've found the Topeak bikepacking bag range was a really nice balance of price and quality. If you do decide to rejig your setup, it sounds like you could probably solve it with your existing saddle bag and running a half-frame bag.

Depending on your frame size, a Wolftooth B-RAD 2 would be handy to re-position the bottle cages lower to give plenty of clearance to keep the bottles usable as well as having a semi-permanent frame bag on there.
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Old 06-28-18, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Been riding my new Exploit for the past week or so, including a hilly 40+ miler on Sunday morning. I am definitely planning on building a more road-ish wheel set for it and saving the factory wheels/tires for occasional long towpath rides. That aside, I love the bike so far. All I have changed is the seat. I didn't even bother trying the seat that came on it knowing it would be too narrow for me. I threw a Terry Liberator Y on it and am a happy camper.

Regarding frame bags, I did take this opportunity to sort of reboot how I do bags. On the used Raleigh I had been riding, I had been using a combination of a saddle bag (which holds spare tube, levers, patch kit, etc.) and a top tube bag (Revelate "Gas Can") and just wasn't terribly fond of the combination. I had tried one other cheap Amazon top tube bag before that (one of the ones with the clear phone holder) and hated it almost immediately. This time I impulse-bought a Banjo Brothers Minnehaha Series medium frame bag and consolidated the things from the other two bags into that. I added a bottle mount on the back of my seatpost for a second bottle cage (I use the seat tube mount for my bike lock). I am much happier with this combination and am now in much less of a rush to buy a rack/bag although I am sure I will eventually anyway.
Originally Posted by lennskii View Post
I've found the Topeak bikepacking bag range was a really nice balance of price and quality. If you do decide to rejig your setup, it sounds like you could probably solve it with your existing saddle bag and running a half-frame bag.

Depending on your frame size, a Wolftooth B-RAD 2 would be handy to re-position the bottle cages lower to give plenty of clearance to keep the bottles usable as well as having a semi-permanent frame bag on there.
Educate someone who doesn't understand frame bags why you need them to ride 40mi?
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Old 07-02-18, 10:00 AM
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Storing Bikes in a Stairway.... Need Ideas

Hey Jamis Renegade owners! I am eagerly waiting on my 58cm Expat to arrive at the LBS. In the interim I need some help. I have a very small house and have to be creative with storage. I have a set of full stairs that go in to my attic. The opening to the attic is flat and covered by two big flat piece of wood on hinges.

So... I'm looking at storing bikes in the stairs up to the attic as we rarely go up there. It's a compact space but I bet if I arrange them properly I can fit four bikes up there.

Now.. ideas for which way to hang the bikes? Should I hang them off the walls or from the roof? Three feet from wall to wall. Roughly 8 feet of usable room just inside the door from stair treads to ceiling. I have a picture but can't send it. Not enough posts yet.

EDIT: Forgot the main point of my post. I need the external dimensions of a Jamis Renegade 58cm so I can figure out where I can fit it.

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Old 07-02-18, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Educate someone who doesn't understand frame bags why you need them to ride 40mi?
I am confused by your question. The bag I have now holds the things that I listed. I also plan on riding a lot further than 40 miles in the coming months. Frame bags come in many sizes. If, in your head, you are picturing one that fills the triangle, that isn't what I am talking about. This is the only bag on my bike right now:

https://banjobrothers.com/collection...vas-frame-pack
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Old 07-02-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I am confused by your question. The bag I have now holds the things that I listed. I also plan on riding a lot further than 40 miles in the coming months. Frame bags come in many sizes. If, in your head, you are picturing one that fills the triangle, that isn't what I am talking about. This is the only bag on my bike right now:

https://banjobrothers.com/collection...vas-frame-pack
I see. I guess I'm just not a bag person. I ride with plenty of people that use them and I just don't understand why anyone would want the expense of buying them, the weight, the rubbing of paint, the difficulty of getting things out. Everything I need goes in my jersey pockets, if I need to be out longer I stop at a gas station and refill. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Carry on
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Old 07-03-18, 07:14 AM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I see. I guess I'm just not a bag person. I ride with plenty of people that use them and I just don't understand why anyone would want the expense of buying them, the weight, the rubbing of paint, the difficulty of getting things out. Everything I need goes in my jersey pockets, if I need to be out longer I stop at a gas station and refill. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Carry on
Some folks aren't interested in riding where there are gas stations nearby; some places just don't have many. Other folks want to bring their camp with them. And yet still more folks don't want to wear a "roadie" jersey. Bike bags have come a long way - paint damage is easily mitigated, thigh rub isn't an issue, and getting things out is a snap.

Plus, beer does not fit in a jersey pocket so well.
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Old 07-03-18, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Plus, beer does not fit in a jersey pocket so well.
Say no more.
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Old 07-03-18, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Some folks aren't interested in riding where there are gas stations nearby; some places just don't have many. Other folks want to bring their camp with them.
I am quite willing to toss a couple of Clif Bars and a ham sandwich into the back of my jersey, perhaps even my wallet, but not a spare tube, bike levers, a patch kit, a bike tool and my car keys. Those things have to go somewhere. And since I have a bag, might as well throw the Clif Bars and the ham sandwich in there also.

Plus, you know, that beer thing.
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Old 07-04-18, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I see. I guess I'm just not a bag person. I ride with plenty of people that use them and I just don't understand why anyone would want the expense of buying them, the weight, the rubbing of paint, the difficulty of getting things out. Everything I need goes in my jersey pockets, if I need to be out longer I stop at a gas station and refill. Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Carry on
Others have already covered your points but thought I'd add.

I generally only run a tool keg under the down-tube for the bulk of my riding / training. This leaves plenty of space on the bike to put on bags when needed.

On the weekend, I ride where I can't during the week. That is, far-away and particularly secluded places. We often load up with a tent, a couple beers and a decent campfire meal. These are not things that you reach for often so you would pack accordingly (frequently used items such as phone and snacks in a top-tube bag or jersey pockets).

If you're riding from gas station or cafe to cafe, then sure no bag needed. But if you're outside the whole day, particularly in cooler weather, a small frame bag to pack a down jacket and a light lunch is pretty ace. It's also pretty handy in that you can distribute weight nicely between stronger and weaker riders (I'll often carry all my partners food and spare water).

Being able to convert a fairly zippy bike unloaded (fun and agile to ride on tarmac and gravel) to a load-capable adventure rig in 5 minutes probably one of the main reasons a lot of us own Renegades.
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Old 07-04-18, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lennskii View Post
Others have already covered your points but thought I'd add.

I generally only run a tool keg under the down-tube for the bulk of my riding / training. This leaves plenty of space on the bike to put on bags when needed.

On the weekend, I ride where I can't during the week. That is, far-away and particularly secluded places. We often load up with a tent, a couple beers and a decent campfire meal. These are not things that you reach for often so you would pack accordingly (frequently used items such as phone and snacks in a top-tube bag or jersey pockets).

If you're riding from gas station or cafe to cafe, then sure no bag needed. But if you're outside the whole day, particularly in cooler weather, a small frame bag to pack a down jacket and a light lunch is pretty ace. It's also pretty handy in that you can distribute weight nicely between stronger and weaker riders (I'll often carry all my partners food and spare water).

Being able to convert a fairly zippy bike unloaded (fun and agile to ride on tarmac and gravel) to a load-capable adventure rig in 5 minutes probably one of the main reasons a lot of us own Renegades.
Well now youíre talking about bike camping, that hardly counts
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Old 07-09-18, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post


Well now youíre talking about bike camping, that hardly counts
Haha - it is an adventure bike .

I agree - for a day ride, a bag is overkill if you pack properly and wear a proper bike jersey.

Though, colder days where you're out for a 5-6hr ride not close to a civilisation that extra room for a down jacket, lunch and an extra bottle - a frame bag is pretty handy.
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Old 07-09-18, 10:41 AM
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I finally got around to remembering to take a picture of my bike someplace more interesting than in front of my garage door. This is my current setup. If you think it is overkill, ok. As I said, this replaces the saddle bag and a small top tube bag, two bags that I see all the time and I doubt too many people would call overkill.

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Old 07-09-18, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I finally got around to remembering to take a picture of my bike someplace more interesting than in front of my garage door. This is my current setup. If you think it is overkill, ok. As I said, this replaces the saddle bag and a small top tube bag, two bags that I see all the time and I doubt too many people would call overkill.

Can't see if you have anything mounted on the seat tube bottle cage bolts, but why not mount your 2nd bottle there rather than on the seat post? Looks like you have plenty of room, especially with that half-half-frame bag.
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Old 07-10-18, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lennskii View Post
Can't see if you have anything mounted on the seat tube bottle cage bolts, but why not mount your 2nd bottle there rather than on the seat post? Looks like you have plenty of room, especially with that half-half-frame bag.
I guess it is hard to see but my bike lock is mounted on the seat tube. It is a TIGR titanium band lock so is very thin when viewed from the side. In theory I could reverse the lock mount and the bottle behind the seat, but the lock mount is a bit sturdier where it is now.
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Old 07-12-18, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I guess it is hard to see but my bike lock is mounted on the seat tube. It is a TIGR titanium band lock so is very thin when viewed from the side. In theory I could reverse the lock mount and the bottle behind the seat, but the lock mount is a bit sturdier where it is now.
Ah! I was zooming in and thought it may have been a part of the bollard. Nice bit of kit those locks are.
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Old 07-13-18, 04:59 AM
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I've been looking at these. All my rides are road oriented. I thought it would be great to have a bike that could handle a little rougher roads. So my question is this. How efficient is this bike vs a full on road bike on the road. I know there are trade offs. If I were to buy another set of roadwheels and slicks just for the road would it then compare to a road bike equally? If so it would be nice because then when the local folks do adventure rides I could put the stock wheels and tires on to do that too. Just wondering, thought I should ask folks that own these bikes instead of the salesperson in the shop. I know they just want to sell a bike.
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Old 07-13-18, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Weakbikr View Post
All my rides are road oriented. I thought it would be great to have a bike that could handle a little rougher roads. So my question is this. How efficient is this bike vs a full on road bike on the road. I know there are trade offs. If I were to buy another set of roadwheels and slicks just for the road would it then compare to a road bike equally? If so it would be nice because then when the local folks do adventure rides I could put the stock wheels and tires on to do that too.
This really depends on *how* you ride on the road. Are you a racer type? A club rider? Because even with a road wheelset this bike will never feel the same as a true road bike, the geo is too different. But with that being said they are really fun bikes. However, I'm pretty sure that what you want is a true CX bike. I LOVE my SuperX precisely because it does feel like a road bike and feels fast.
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Old 07-13-18, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
This really depends on *how* you ride on the road. Are you a racer type? A club rider? Because even with a road wheelset this bike will never feel the same as a true road bike, the geo is too different. But with that being said they are really fun bikes. However, I'm pretty sure that what you want is a true CX bike. I LOVE my SuperX precisely because it does feel like a road bike and feels fast.
I'm not the racer type but I love the way the old bike feels. It does feel fast. Much faster than me... lol. I'd like to have something that felt just as good.
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Old 07-13-18, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Weakbikr View Post
I'm not the racer type but I love the way the old bike feels. It does feel fast. Much faster than me... lol. I'd like to have something that felt just as good.
Then you want a true CX bike.
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Old 07-14-18, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Weakbikr View Post
I've been looking at these. All my rides are road oriented. I thought it would be great to have a bike that could handle a little rougher roads. So my question is this. How efficient is this bike vs a full on road bike on the road. I know there are trade offs. If I were to buy another set of roadwheels and slicks just for the road would it then compare to a road bike equally? If so it would be nice because then when the local folks do adventure rides I could put the stock wheels and tires on to do that too. Just wondering, thought I should ask folks that own these bikes instead of the salesperson in the shop. I know they just want to sell a bike.
The Renegade can make a pretty sweet endurance road bike. It would make a great gran fondo bike. The Elite is even relatively light at about 18lbs. Replace its stock tires with somethings like the Schwalbe Pro One in 28c, and you're dropping a little weight and improving road performance. Perhaps also consider replacing the stock flared handlebars with something 2cm-4cm narrower and slam the stem. The Renegade is really tall in front, so slamming the stem is still quite comfortable.

One thing that's interesting is that modern CX bikes like the current SuperX and Kona Jake have geometry that's getting more relaxed compared to classic CX bikes. If you compare the geo of the Renegade the biggest difference is really the stack. Wheelbase, BB drop, chainstay length, are all fairly close. Steering geometry is actually pretty quick on the Renegade, almost as quick as the SuperX.
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Old 07-14-18, 04:44 PM
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Picked up a Renegade Expat from the LBS last night and put it through its paces over around 20 miles in Griffith Park today. The best word I can use to describe it is "delightful". I almost bought one of these over the holidays, decided to limp along on my other bike for a while and finally got fed up a month or so ago. The bike has been backordered since then and I've been chomping at the bit. I must have read this entire thread ten or fifteen times. I thought long and hard about this bike vs. the Raleigh Tamland but in the end all of the versatile mounting points won me over in spite of the 105 drivetrain on the Tamland. Oh and I already have two other Jamis bikes, so that didn't hurt.It's a very comfortable ride, no doubt thanks to the 36mm stock tires. I'm coming from a 2003 Ventura Comp road bike with 28mm slicks so there's a big difference in feel there. But the Renegade is super responsive, stable and really just handles wonderfully. I have so much more confidence bombing down hills on this thing and it just eats up dirt and rocks.

The other interesting thing is that I am usually a stay-in-the-saddle type when climbing. I just put the bike in the lowest gear, try not to mash, and steadily make my way up the hill. But this bike almost wants you out of the saddle on some of those ascents - it feels good!

Things I will likely change soon:
  • The size 58 Expat comes with 46mm wide bars and they feel really wide compared to my old roadie. Hopefully I'll get used to them after a couple of weeks, but I could see myself going down a size.
  • I'd like some tires that roll a little bit better on flat pavement. Not sure what those will be yet, but something with a slick center strip I think. Compass Bon Jon Pass maybe? Also considering Schwalbe Marathon Almotions as well, but maybe these are too slick on rougher terrain? I'm probably 85/15 pavement/gravel.
  • I don't like the grip tape and will probably upgrade to what's on the nicer Renegade models, I liked it when I demoed them.
Things I would like to change down the line:
  • I wouldn't mind another 10 or so degrees of stem rise.
  • I would love an even easier granny gear which would require a different cassette.
And that's about it! All of these are really easy to change and have more to do with my style than anything glaringly wrong on the bike. It's so nice not to be fighting anything and just pointing it in whatever direction I feel like going.

I tried posting a photo but I guess I need ten posts first.

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Old 07-14-18, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dokterrock View Post
I'd like some tires that roll a little bit better on flat pavement. Not sure what those will be yet, but something with a slick center strip I think. Compass Bon Jon Pass maybe? Also considering Schwalbe Marathon Almotions as well, but maybe these are too slick on rougher terrain? I'm probably 85/15 pavement/gravel.
If you're looking at the Marathon Allmotion then it sounds like weight isn't the biggest concern for you. I've been running the Donnelly Strada USH 40c tubeless lately and it's really nice. Heavy, but nice. It rolls very well on pavement and wears well while offering enough tread and volume to work well on gravel and dirt. I also really liked the Schwalbe G-One Allround 38c tire. The tiny tread wears quickly on the rear, but doesn't really compromise performance when that happens. Allround is an accurate name for that tire.
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Old 07-14-18, 10:23 PM
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BTW, stock tires, Clement X Plor MSO, seem to wear really fast on pavement. Most of my mileage is on pavement and after just about 700 miles there is a very noticeable wear on the rear tire.
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