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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 11-28-17, 01:18 PM   #126
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I don't see the point in carbon wheels unless the bike is a super weight weenie or aero build, of which the Renegade is neither. I say find a good local wheel builder.
Thanks for the advice! I was looking at that Reynolds mainly because it was on sale, but it makes sense to find something local and better suited for the Exploit. The options are the challenge for me, but a wheel builder should be able to guide me. I will now have some options to present.

I just found the specs for the 2018 Exploit (Ano Palladium). Besides the brighter paint, they have added a smaller size and upgraded the front derailleur. I'm glad I didn't wait for the 2018.
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Old 11-28-17, 02:49 PM   #127
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Thanks for the advice! I was looking at that Reynolds mainly because it was on sale, but it makes sense to find something local and better suited for the Exploit. The options are the challenge for me, but a wheel builder should be able to guide me. I will now have some options to present.

I just found the specs for the 2018 Exploit (Ano Palladium). Besides the brighter paint, they have added a smaller size and upgraded the front derailleur. I'm glad I didn't wait for the 2018.
Interesting... That's the first bike I've seen the redesigned 105 derailleur on. I haven't even read rumors of the new 105. Since the model number is still 58xx, maybe they're not updating the whole group?
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Old 11-29-17, 06:32 AM   #128
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FWIW, I saw somebody selling American Classic Hurricane wheelsets for $400 on a Google shopping search yesterday. Those are fine wheels at a killer price, assuming they are available with the right axles.

Last edited by ATPAH; 11-29-17 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Edited for wrongness
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Old 11-29-17, 09:17 AM   #129
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FWIW, I saw somebody selling American Classic Hurricane wheelsets for $400 on a Google shopping search yesterday. Those are the same wheels that come on the Elite at a killer price, assuming they are available with the right axles.
The Elite comes with the Race wheelset, not the Hurricane.
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Old 11-29-17, 09:30 AM   #130
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The Elite comes with the Race wheelset, not the Hurricane.
Yowsa, that's light. No wonder my buddy's bike feels so zippy. Still, the Hurricanes are a fine wheelset. Price seems to have gone-up a little post-cyber Monday, but still it's a sweet price.
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Old 11-29-17, 09:31 AM   #131
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Yowsa, that's light. No wonder my buddy's bike feels so zippy. Still, the Hurricanes are a fine wheelset. Price seems to have gone-up a little post-cyber Monday, but still it's a sweet price.
Agreed. I have the Races and not only are they light but the hubs just spin FOREVER. I would be cool with the Hurricanes too.
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Old 12-04-17, 04:52 PM   #132
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Renegade Expat 650B Conversion

I was hoping to see more pictures of people's setups on this thread so I'll go ahead and post mine. I just recently installed the axle conversion kits on my American Classic Wide Lightning's to transfer them from my MTB to the 12mm/QR configuration on the Jamis. I'm using Terrene Elwood's 650x47 with lightweight casings. The actual measurement for this tire/rim combo is more like 50mm on the 29mm ID AC's. This means the Expat will clear a tire wider than the 48mm that Jamis lists as the maximum, but I personally wouldn't go over 2 inches, or full knobby for that matter. This is my first 650B drop bar conversion and I'm really liking it. I've been on a 27.5 MTB since 2014 so I was hoping it would prove as much fun on the Renegade. The Expat in its stock form has a very stable, comfortable, but boring ride quality, which has a lot to do with the heavy wheelset it comes with. I've also run a set of American Classic 700c Race's with Compass Bon Jon's as well to see how it did as a road bike. I definitely prefer the 650B setup on this bike for my style of riding (quicker handling, tight turns, fast accelerations), plus the extra volume smoothes everything out very nicely. Anyway, enough rambling about wheel size.

Since there seems to be a lot of sizing/fit questions about the bike on this thread I'll go ahead and give a full bike check breakdown for those interested. This pertains only to the Expat model, I don't have experience on any others. Here are my fit numbers for this particular setup:

Height - 5' 9 3/4"
Frame size - 56cm
Cycling Inseam - 89cm
Saddle Height - 78cm
Saddle Setback - 8.5cm
Saddle Nose to Bar (using stock saddle) - 53cm
Saddle to Bar Drop - 4cm

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Old 12-06-17, 05:11 AM   #133
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^
all legs.

Have the same tyres to try out once my ThunderBurts are gone.
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Old 12-06-17, 12:20 PM   #134
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I love that bike color!


I want an 2018 Expat so bad. Great looking set up


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I was hoping to see more pictures of people's setups on this thread so I'll go ahead and post mine. I just recently installed the axle conversion kits on my American Classic Wide Lightning's to transfer them from my MTB to the 12mm/QR configuration on the Jamis. I'm using Terrene Elwood's 650x47 with lightweight casings. The actual measurement for this tire/rim combo is more like 50mm on the 29mm ID AC's. This means the Expat will clear a tire wider than the 48mm that Jamis lists as the maximum, but I personally wouldn't go over 2 inches, or full knobby for that matter. This is my first 650B drop bar conversion and I'm really liking it. I've been on a 27.5 MTB since 2014 so I was hoping it would prove as much fun on the Renegade. The Expat in its stock form has a very stable, comfortable, but boring ride quality, which has a lot to do with the heavy wheelset it comes with. I've also run a set of American Classic 700c Race's with Compass Bon Jon's as well to see how it did as a road bike. I definitely prefer the 650B setup on this bike for my style of riding (quicker handling, tight turns, fast accelerations), plus the extra volume smoothes everything out very nicely. Anyway, enough rambling about wheel size.

Since there seems to be a lot of sizing/fit questions about the bike on this thread I'll go ahead and give a full bike check breakdown for those interested. This pertains only to the Expat model, I don't have experience on any others. Here are my fit numbers for this particular setup:

Height - 5' 9 3/4"
Frame size - 56cm
Cycling Inseam - 89cm
Saddle Height - 78cm
Saddle Setback - 8.5cm
Saddle Nose to Bar (using stock saddle) - 53cm
Saddle to Bar Drop - 4cm

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Old 12-06-17, 01:41 PM   #135
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I love that bike color!

I want an 2018 Expat so bad. Great looking set up
Be on the lookout for deals on 2017 Exploits too. Killer bike.
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Old 12-06-17, 02:41 PM   #136
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I was hoping to see more pictures of people's setups on this thread so I'll go ahead and post mine. I just recently installed the axle conversion kits on my American Classic Wide Lightning's to transfer them from my MTB to the 12mm/QR configuration on the Jamis. I'm using Terrene Elwood's 650x47 with lightweight casings. The actual measurement for this tire/rim combo is more like 50mm on the 29mm ID AC's. This means the Expat will clear a tire wider than the 48mm that Jamis lists as the maximum, but I personally wouldn't go over 2 inches, or full knobby for that matter. This is my first 650B drop bar conversion and I'm really liking it. I've been on a 27.5 MTB since 2014 so I was hoping it would prove as much fun on the Renegade. The Expat in its stock form has a very stable, comfortable, but boring ride quality, which has a lot to do with the heavy wheelset it comes with. I've also run a set of American Classic 700c Race's with Compass Bon Jon's as well to see how it did as a road bike. I definitely prefer the 650B setup on this bike for my style of riding (quicker handling, tight turns, fast accelerations), plus the extra volume smoothes everything out very nicely. Anyway, enough rambling about wheel size.

Since there seems to be a lot of sizing/fit questions about the bike on this thread I'll go ahead and give a full bike check breakdown for those interested. This pertains only to the Expat model, I don't have experience on any others. Here are my fit numbers for this particular setup:

Height - 5' 9 3/4"
Frame size - 56cm
Cycling Inseam - 89cm
Saddle Height - 78cm
Saddle Setback - 8.5cm
Saddle Nose to Bar (using stock saddle) - 53cm
Saddle to Bar Drop - 4cm

Sweet. Thanks for sharing the picture. I love that crank and need one in 46/30 asap. The price is hard to swallow though. How's the front shifting with those chainrings? What size are they?

I agree that swapping out the stock wheels makes a drastic improvement in the lazy handling of this bike. Unless you have the stock American Classics of course.
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Old 12-06-17, 02:46 PM   #137
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Here's my 2016 Expat. It is currently torn down. Most of the parts will go on to my new Escapade.



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Old 12-06-17, 08:00 PM   #138
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Here's my 2016 Expat. It is currently torn down. Most of the parts will go on to my new Escapade.
That should be a nice build once everything comes together, the deep red color on the Cotic looks great (that's the color they should've made the 2018 Exploit except with the matte metallic finish Jamis uses). I really like your component choices too, especially the wheelset.

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How's the front shifting with those chainrings? What size are they?
I've got the 46/30, but if I were doing more paved road riding I'd get the 48/32. The shifting itself is fine. Shifting habits are closer to that of a 1x setup and because of the ring size difference I don't do it nearly as often as with a traditional road or mtb 2x, especially not under load. If you paired one with a wide range cassette like you've got in your Renegade photo, you could pretty much stay in the big ring for most road riding and smaller ring for steep climbs/singletrack.

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Be on the lookout for deals on 2017 Exploits too. Killer bike.
I'd love to see some Exploits on this thread. I really considered getting one, but I could just never get comfortable on the Shimano RS505 levers and the quality of the Tiagra shifting on the Expat really surprised me in a good way.
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Old 12-07-17, 04:59 AM   #139
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If you paired one with a wide range cassette like you've got in your Renegade photo, you could pretty much stay in the big ring for most road riding and smaller ring for steep climbs/singletrack
That's pretty much how I do things with an 11-36t cassette and the stock 50/34t crank - road ring, trail ring. It's not like there are any useful gears hiding in the middle of one ring's range that aren't available on the other ring.
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Old 12-08-17, 01:48 PM   #140
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Here's my 2016 Expat. It is currently torn down. Most of the parts will go on to my new Escapade.


Is that a power meter I spy?
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Old 12-08-17, 03:32 PM   #141
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Is that a power meter I spy?
Yeah. I use the bike in the winter as a roadie. It helps during long climbs on when touring too.
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Old 12-09-17, 04:49 PM   #142
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2018 Escapade

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Old 12-10-17, 12:05 AM   #143
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Wow that's a really nice looking bike. I bet the color looks even better in real life. I see you got one of the new White Industries headsets, and I'm guessing the hubs are WI CLDs. What country are you in? Is the Exploit model sold under the Escapade name in markets outside of the US because that looks like the same frame, but the model name and color appear nowhere on the Jamis website in the US. If it is, then it has a much better colorway than the bright silver Exploit, at least in my opinion. Then again maybe it just hasn't been posted yet. And I thought you were getting the Cotic Escapade since it's a similar style bike
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Old 12-10-17, 12:52 AM   #144
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Wow that's a really nice looking bike. I bet the color looks even better in real life. I see you got one of the new White Industries headsets, and I'm guessing the hubs are WI CLDs. What country are you in? Is the Exploit model sold under the Escapade name in markets outside of the US because that looks like the same frame, but the model name and color appear nowhere on the Jamis website in the US. If it is, then it has a much better colorway than the bright silver Exploit, at least in my opinion. Then again maybe it just hasn't been posted yet. And I thought you were getting the Cotic Escapade since it's a similar style bike
Thanks. I'm in the US. Yes hubs are WI CLD. The Renegade Escapade is a new model to slot in above the Exploit. The frame is exactly the same and the Exploit, but the complete bike comes with Ultegra R8020. Price is the same as the carbon framed 105 Expert. This Escapade was available as a frameset, which is how I purchased it since I already had a Renegade that I could move parts from.

Jamis Japan has the same paint job of this Escapade on an Expat here

Another interesting point is that the steerer tube on my 2016 Expat was alloy and on this Escapade it is carbon. I'm wondering if all of the carbon forks have a carbon steerer now. Jamis' site has nothing stating that the steerer was upgraded to carbon, including the 2017 spec sheets.

Last edited by Danny01; 12-10-17 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 12-10-17, 06:46 PM   #145
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Thanks. I'm in the US. Yes hubs are WI CLD. The Renegade Escapade is a new model to slot in above the Exploit. The frame is exactly the same and the Exploit, but the complete bike comes with Ultegra R8020. Price is the same as the carbon framed 105 Expert. This Escapade was available as a frameset, which is how I purchased it since I already had a Renegade that I could move parts from.
Man that complete bike looks awesome, too bad they didn't offer this in 2017. I'd love to hear a ride report on the new frame after you've gotten in some saddle time on the new bike. I'm no expert on steel bikes but would like to know what your opinions are on the 631 vs 520 and rear quick release vs thru axle, and how much you really notice out there in the real world. So is Jamis selling this model Renegade as a frameset now or did you get it through other channels?
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Old 12-11-17, 12:47 AM   #146
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Man that complete bike looks awesome, too bad they didn't offer this in 2017. I'd love to hear a ride report on the new frame after you've gotten in some saddle time on the new bike. I'm no expert on steel bikes but would like to know what your opinions are on the 631 vs 520 and rear quick release vs thru axle, and how much you really notice out there in the real world. So is Jamis selling this model Renegade as a frameset now or did you get it through other channels?
I ordered it from my LBS, who is an authorized dealer. The LBS said that the Escapade was the only model that is available as a frameset and it is a very limited production, one-time run. They only had 2 framesets in my size. The build isn't completed yet but I'm not expecting much difference between my Expat and Escapade. The geometry is a bit different, so I guess I'll see.

Their website has been updating one model at a time, and they started with the Exile and updated one model at a time moving up the model range. If the pattern continues, the Escapade should be next then the Expert and Elite.

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Old 12-11-17, 08:15 AM   #147
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this is very interesting. I like the color option on the jamis japan website. I could not see a picture of your bike but man I do like the Renegade series.
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Old 12-11-17, 06:18 PM   #148
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Have the same tyres to try out once my ThunderBurts are gone.
What are your thoughts on the Thunder Burt's? They seem to be really popular among 650b bikes. Do you ride mainly gravel or do you like to do some trail/singletrack too? Were you able to clear the 2.1 on a Renegade or did you run them on another bike?

The Terrene's have been great so far. I have the light casing version set up tubeless on a set of American Classic Wide Lightning's. I'm 160lbs and for my weight have found 30 front, 35 rear psi to be good for road and gravel and 25/30 good for trail riding. Much lower than that and they start to squirm during hard cornering. They performed a lot better on the trail than I expected, even with the leaf cover and damp conditions, they didn't really spin out, especially if you remain seated. On pavement they don't roll as well as a slick, but there's no vibration or noise like with a nobby.

Too bad the Renegade doesn't offer a 650b option like Kona does with the Rove, it makes the bike so much more capable off road.

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Old 12-11-17, 07:06 PM   #149
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What are your thoughts on the Thunder Burt's? They seem to be really popular among 650b bikes. Do you ride mainly gravel or do you like to do some trail/singletrack too? Were you able to clear the 2.1 on a Renegade or did you run them on another bike?
I love the 27.1 Thunderburts (Liteskin). 135lbs here. Have them setup tubeless.
Using them in the dry on hardpacked ground with variable-sized loose rocks above.
If I hit some sandy patches then they start to wander out front.

Gravel and quite a bit of trail/singletrack.

Fitted to a non-Renegade bike.

Before I purchased them I did read a few complaints about how light they were i.e. flats/sidewalls, but I've had no problems with them.
At their weight with the low-height centre knobs, they also ride pretty good on the road for what they are.

Have a set of those Ellwood in the Light version also to try out once these wear out.

I like my tyres light! (Ellwood, ThunderBurts, SwitchBackHill).
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Old 12-11-17, 10:08 PM   #150
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The 650b option is interesting. I'm planning on getting a set of 650b's for touring on the Jamis. Another thing to note is that my Expat fork had enough clearance to fit a 700x35 and a fender in between, but my new fork barely clears the same wheel/tire combo without the fender. This is to say that the fork on my 2018 Escapade has much less clearance than the fork on my 2016 Expat. Still trying to figure out a solution for a front fender.
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