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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Gravel bike

Old 11-12-17, 03:53 AM
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Gravel bike build questions

So I'm starting to get into biking and since I visit my home town (Emporia KS) a few times a year I want to build a bike to use for the Dirty Kanza. At the moment Im looking at building a bike from either an old MTB or Cross frame. Ive looked at bikes like a Miyata Alumicross, Specialized Rockhopper, Bianchi Grizzly, Raleigh Technium, ect. Im mostly looking at Crmo, aluminum, and a few older carbon frames because of cost mostly, (also the cool 80s/90s paint schemes).

I guess my main question Im asking is what would your requirements be for building a bike to compete for such an event. Would you keep the frame you chose under a certain weight? Stay away from certain materials or frame constructions? Would you build a mountain bike over a cross bike? Could I use a road bike frame and what would it take to do so; and would the pros outweigh the effort?

Sorry for such random questions. Just trying to get an idea of how other people go into building their bike for these events.
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Old 11-12-17, 06:43 AM
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Biggest requirement is about the rider and not the bike. This might mean the bike will be built to accomodate the rider's abilities and physical capabilities.

One example may be the Tour de France and how each general classification rider would pick the type of bike within the sponsors line-up and also the type of gearing and even the front chain ring type.

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Old 11-12-17, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Y0SH

I guess my main question Im asking is what would your requirements be for building a bike to compete for such an event.
My two main requirements would be tire clearance and hand positions.

I'd want a frameset that could take at least 40-42mm tires. If you're looking for an old frame, that would rule out road bike frames and probably most older cyclocross frames.

I'd hate to lose the drop handlebar, but I'd ride a mountain bike if that's all I could find that would fit the width tires I would want to use. Preferably a rigid mountain bike frameset, but a hardtail with a suspension fork with a lockout would be okay, too. I'd definitely use a handlebar with lots of hand positions--something like a Surly Moloko bar or a Jones Loop H Bar.
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Old 11-12-17, 01:29 PM
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Are you doing a frame-up build? How are you planning to get the parts?

Just trying to get an idea of how other people go into building their bike for these events.
Mostly people aren't building on a tight budget. The vast majority just buy something complete. The ones doing custom builds are usually ending with a total cost above, and often significantly so, $2000. I have all the gravel bikes I need but if I had to do it again I'd just go to Performance and buy the bike I liked riding the best for around $1300. If I was on a tight budget I'd get something for around $500 from Diamondback/Raleigh or Bikesdirect. I'd be loath to ride 50-100-200 miles of gravel on a rim brake bike anyway.


Just going off personal experience I'm almost 100% sure a custom one-of build is going to be more expensive and lower quality than just buying a modern off the shelf bike - especially in the off-season. It takes a lot more time and effort as well.

This might be helpful to know as well:
https://dirtykanza.com/registration/

Uh...that said if I were to build a c&v bike for DK I'd start with a rigid mountain bike with the cheapest lightest frame and try to get 9-speed components. That way I could keep everything but change the handlebars to drops and add integrated shifters, get the best tires I could afford and off to the races. I had a '89 GT Tequesta I mocked up for this style build before I knew any better. I was able to luck into parts to keep my total cost under $300 but it was just not that great of an idea. Heavy, didn't fit well and old geometry was odd.

Cross bikes from that time period are a non-starter as they're harder to find and often beat to hell with limited tire clearance. Road bikes as well - 90s/00s tire clearance is very small and the frames are optimized for European style road racing and not gravel riding. Maybe a touring frame would be something to consider but those are also fairly hard to find.
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Old 11-12-17, 03:11 PM
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All the models that I listed a still for sale locally and I've contacted the sellers the confirm good condition; and all are less than $150 asking price. All the bikes are also complete and in working order, but every part will be upgraded/changed to try and get the most I can out of the bike while trying to spend less than $1000 on upgrades. I live in a city with a huge market for every type of biking, so used or unused parts are available and cheap.

After I see how I place I'll know what I want out of the bike I build for the next year, and will also give me time to save for a modern frame set. Plus, building the bike and finding the parts is part of the fun for me. Also I feel I could ride a lot more confidently on a frame that's more replaceable. If I bought a new bike I would be worried about every little bump, and damaging my new bike.
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Old 11-12-17, 03:23 PM
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No offense but that sounds like a waste of time. For $1150 just buy something new. I mean, a Haanjo Comp is $1040.

https://www.diamondback.com/road-bik...el/haanjo-comp

Raleigh CX and Gravel bikes are being blown out on eBay, there are a few models around $1150 and under that are amazingly good deals.

https://stores.ebay.com/adrenalinewor...2&_nkw=raleigh

Sorry be a downer on your idea, good luck!
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Old 11-12-17, 03:36 PM
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It's not problem, that's what I asked for. And I'm considering the idea. There are also a lot of use new bikes to chose from that I have been looking at like the Bianchi Axis, San Jose, or Zurigo for example, and building those to suit me.
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Old 11-12-17, 04:24 PM
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It's also petty of me but my home town is where the Dirty Kanza is, so after the first one, every one in town went out and just bought a bike because "OH MY GOD, DIRTIY KANZA!!!", so going out and buying a bike as is does't really appeal to me. Plus Ive always liked building what I have and not buying something off the shelf, wither it be bikes or cars.
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Old 11-12-17, 06:23 PM
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Glad your getting into gravel. I can't give you any advice on a gravel bike.

The 2018 Dirty Kanza will be based on a lottery and registration opens December 1 - December 16 with drawing for entrants happening around January 13th.

The transfer process has also changed (Dirty Kanza will be the middleman) and the person transferring their slot will be required to pay a $30 transfer fee.
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Old 11-12-17, 06:51 PM
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Cross bike.
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Old 11-12-17, 11:05 PM
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Early 90s hybrid.

Schwinn crisscross
Schwinn crosscut
Bianchi project 5
Bianchi project 7
Trek multitrack 750
Univega via activa

Etc etc etc

All are butted cromo frames that can handle 40mm(or wider) tires.

1990-95 had sime really cool 700c framed that were effectively ahead of their time and can be easily modernized.

Early hybrids are great because they use 700c wheels, all parts can be updated if needed, and switching to drop bars isnt a wild change in geometery.
Ive done drop bar conversions on 4 of the bikes mentioned above and the geometry worked great.

As for the bikes you mention, i would be most interested in the miyata alumicross.
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Old 11-13-17, 12:59 AM
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Im actually going to look at the Alumicross tomorrow evening. Im hoping the frame looks as good in person as it does in the photos. Im also thinking Ill pick up the Technium as also. The guy is selling it cheap and the frame happens to be in my size. I might clean it up and keep it as is since it looks to have all the factory components. Its the lugged model that looks like this one, same color and all. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...g?v=1393969861
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Old 11-14-17, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Y0SH
Im actually going to look at the Alumicross tomorrow evening. Im hoping the frame looks as good in person as it does in the photos. Im also thinking Ill pick up the Technium as also. The guy is selling it cheap and the frame happens to be in my size. I might clean it up and keep it as is since it looks to have all the factory components. Its the lugged model that looks like this one, same color and all. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...g?v=1393969861
I built up an Alumicross last winter in preparation for D2R2, a formidable gravel ride that goes through Western Mass and parts of Vermont. I love it, and it performed admirably on the big ride. I found it to be a supremely comfortable bike over long distances. I kinda feel like it rides like a nice steel bike, maybe itís the chro-mo fork and stays.

A few things to note. Itís not a very light bike. Not heavy, but not light at least in respect to modern aluminum. Itís a bit flexy, too. Nothing crazy, but itís not rock solid. And I suppose that rim width has a bit to do with it, but the biggest tire with an aggressive tread I can fit in there (Ritchey Speedmax) is a 700x32. And even that rubs a bit on the chainstays when Iím out of the saddle. I think Iím going to downsize to a 700x30 at some point, I think that would be perfect. Original spec was 700x35 so go figure.

My criticisms arenít meant to turn you away; I love my Alumicross and I ride it often; it competes for time with my modern Fuji Sportif, and Iíve taken it on trails better suited for MTBs. Itís a blast. Iím 5í11Ē and 1/2, and itís a 56, my road bike is a 58, just for reference.
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Old 11-14-17, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Early 90s hybrid.

All are butted cromo frames that can handle 40mm(or wider) tires.

1990-95 had sime really cool 700c framed that were effectively ahead of their time and can be easily modernized.

Early hybrids are great because they use 700c wheels, all parts can be updated if needed, and switching to drop bars isnt a wild change in geometery.
I'm curious to why you say that: "really cool 700c framed that were effectively ahead of their time"

I have a good looking '90s steel Bianchi Advantage hybrid. Think this would work good for that type of conversion?
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Old 11-14-17, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by chas58
I'm curious to why you say that: "really cool 700c framed that were effectively ahead of their time"

I have a good looking '90s steel Bianchi Advantage hybrid. Think this would work good for that type of conversion?
Funny- by brother in law used a purple/blue 90s Advantage as the basis for a drop bar mixed use bike for my sister for limestone and dirt trails that her road bike isnt good on.
I think he fit 41mm Surly Knards on the wheels, used a shorter stem, a short reach and short drop bar, and some spare STIs.
Its a really cool bike that in total cost probably $250 to build.


I said the early 90s 700c hybrids were effectively ahead of their time because they werent very popular back then and short lived, but they are pretty much what Surly, Soma, Black Mountain, etc all have pushed for the last decade.
Back when these bikes were marketed, tire options were extremely limited. Wide quality 700c tires werent nearly as popular or prevelant as they are now. Its in part why Bruce Gordonís Rock n Road tire that was originally made in 1988 was literally shelved and collected dust for years before being reintroduced- the demand just wasnít there for a 700c drop bar dirt and gravel capable bike.

The bikes back then were ahead of their time because its what is copied by many now. Examples being-
- Capable of wide tires
- Mounts for racks to bikepack/overnight explore off the beaten path
- Quality cromo tubing
- Mix of road and mtb components
- Wide range gearing to climb loose hills while still going fast on flat road
- Standard fittings that arent proprietary, are easily serviceable, and will last(external headset, BSA threaded BB, traditional seatpost, etc)

Now yes, the 3x7 gearing back then has been replaced mostly by 2x9t thru 2x11, but the idea of wide range has been kept.

Interesting thing I found out when helping my brother in law build up an early 90s Trek 750 into a drop bar gravel bike for him- the 750 multitrack bikes of the early 90s(90-93 I think?) were the same geometry as Trekís 520 drop bar touring bike. So turning the 750 into a drop bar was pretty simple for geometry- just a different stem length to account for the reach distance difference between a drop bar and flat bar.
That bike has mounting points for fenders and racks, fits 41 Surly Knard tires, and is made with True Temper branded butted cromo tubing. If Surly or Breezer etc had started with a bike for the Crosscheck or Radar, an early 90s 750 would have been perfect.

Best of all is that since standards havent changed, hybrids from the early 90s can be easily updated. All were 130/135mm dropouts in the back and modern cantis or vbrakes fit since fork spacing is the same now as then.
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Old 11-14-17, 05:50 PM
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I like where you are going with the Alumicross and Raleigh. As long as there is enough room for the tire width, I think either will make an awesome, unique gravel setup.

I built up this bike from a hardtail mountain frame and did the D2R2 ride in Massachusetts this past year. Giant aluminum frame, Surly 1x1 front fork, 3x7 gearing with a 24:32 low gear that allowed me to climb anything, Continental semi-slick tires, mechanical disc brakes. While not light be any means, it was 100% bulletproof, very comfortable to ride....and fairly unique. Also, the whole thing cost me less than $400 to build.

Picked up a Miyata Two Ten last month and am going to build it up for another gravel option for next year.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:44 PM
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This was my first gravel bike- a 92 univega viaactiva. Too small for me, but i made it work for a year to confirm i liked riding gravel and would find a proper build worth the money.

Cromo frame, 3x7 drivetrain with a 1to1 granny ratio, and killer retro paint splatter.

This pic is right before i tore it down and sold the fram/fork/headset to another forum member. I dropped the saddle and stem to make it look more appropriatwly proportional.
Had it fit properly, i probably would have kept it and just upgraded the drivetrain and wheelset.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
This was my first gravel bike- a 92 univega viaactiva. Too small for me, but i made it work for a year to confirm i liked riding gravel and would find a proper build worth the money.

Cromo frame, 3x7 drivetrain with a 1to1 granny ratio, and killer retro paint splatter.

This pic is right before i tore it down and sold the fram/fork/headset to another forum member. I dropped the saddle and stem to make it look more appropriatwly proportional.
Had it fit properly, i probably would have kept it and just upgraded the drivetrain and wheelset.
That paint is awesome! and I don't even like green..
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Old 11-15-17, 03:39 AM
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I ran across this article that was posted today at Bike Radar and thought it was interesting. I also included a link to a video that was mentioned in the article that shows how severe Dirty Kanza conditions can be,

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/4-types-of-gravel-2-types-of-fun-51231/

https://youtu.be/av5GTicV1NE
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Old 11-15-17, 04:09 PM
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A little anal on that tire choice for gravel.

I guess I'm just as bad though. I use:
28mm: road and pavement like gravel (hard and dry with smooth surface)
32mm: summer riding (on any road that sees regular traffic)
40mm: roads with little to no traffic, two track and single track. Winter/spring (wet) riding.
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Old 11-15-17, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Funny- by brother in law used a purple/blue 90s Advantage as the basis for a drop bar mixed use bike for my sister for limestone and dirt trails that her road bike isnt good on.
I think he fit 41mm Surly Knards on the wheels, used a shorter stem, a short reach and short drop bar, and some spare STIs.
Its a really cool bike that in total cost probably $250 to build.
Agreed.

I look at modern gravel bikes, and they look a lot like drop bar hybrids.

The best thing about old school hybrids: large triangles (for frame bags), some really good steel options, and quill stems (a: they look cool, b: they are height adjustable in 5 seconds).
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Old 01-04-18, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Early 90s hybrid.

Schwinn crisscross
Schwinn crosscut
Bianchi project 5
Bianchi project 7
Trek multitrack 750
Univega via activa

Etc etc etc

All are butted cromo frames that can handle 40mm(or wider) tires.

1990-95 had sime really cool 700c framed that were effectively ahead of their time and can be easily modernized.

Early hybrids are great because they use 700c wheels, all parts can be updated if needed, and switching to drop bars isnt a wild change in geometery.
Ive done drop bar conversions on 4 of the bikes mentioned above and the geometry worked great.

As for the bikes you mention, i would be most interested in the miyata alumicross.
This! ^^^^^^

and it will be far better than any new off the shelf gravel bike you can buy in to $1,000-1,500 range! quality for $ spent my $1,100 Trek crossrip Elite was the worse investment I've ever made on a bike.

my 1991 Schwinn crosscut with XT 1x I could have left it as cantilever but since I was buying brakes anyways, and the Maguras were $54 I went with them.

IMO the least Expensive awesome build would be the 1x10 XT with a drop bar and bar end shifter. Splurge and go for the higher end in the wheel department. and run your choice of a tubeless Gravelking SK, X'plor MSO, etc type tire.

IMO new gravel Geometries should be what these old geometries were, they just work!
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Old 01-04-18, 02:38 AM
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the only new off the shelf bike I would even consider on the lower end of the cost spectrum is the Raleigh RXM. Not at MSRP, but at the Close out price of $1,300 it isn't bad. there is a whole heap of a lot of value in thru axle and tapered head tubes that the 90's bikes can't give us.

steel frame, thru axle, carbon fork, disc brake, the RXM checks off lots of boxes, but Tire clearance is on tighter side. can run a 40 though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2017-Ra...F34XEEL9S93-cQ
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