Converting 5800 to 1x
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Converting 5800 to 1x
Hello Everyone,
New here, and relatively new to cycling. I've been cycling for about a year now, and am really enjoying myself. I recently picked up a Diamondback Century 4 Carbon on a great deal, and recently moved, finding myself able to commute to work now, and also explore the area with my bike. I've recently converted to tubeless, and now would be interested in converting to 1x because I find myself needing to change chainrings on the front frequently to prevent cross chaining, and I love the idea of the simplicity of it. My bike has a full 5800 groupset with a 50/34 crankset. I'd like to convert it to 1x, with possibly getting a wider ratio cassette down the road if it's as convenient as I'm hoping it will be. The issue I'm running into is chainline. I hear it's very important, and the reason cross chaining is so frowned upon. I took the crank apart, and Shimano sandwiches the spider between the two chainrings, which is exactly where I need the single chainring to go. I assume someone has ran into this before...is there a special chainring I can buy that has the proper offset to enable it to be perfectly in line with the spider? As there particular chain ring bolts that I'll need to buy, seeing as how the larger chainring has the threads for the bolts on my current setup?
Thanks so much for the help!
New here, and relatively new to cycling. I've been cycling for about a year now, and am really enjoying myself. I recently picked up a Diamondback Century 4 Carbon on a great deal, and recently moved, finding myself able to commute to work now, and also explore the area with my bike. I've recently converted to tubeless, and now would be interested in converting to 1x because I find myself needing to change chainrings on the front frequently to prevent cross chaining, and I love the idea of the simplicity of it. My bike has a full 5800 groupset with a 50/34 crankset. I'd like to convert it to 1x, with possibly getting a wider ratio cassette down the road if it's as convenient as I'm hoping it will be. The issue I'm running into is chainline. I hear it's very important, and the reason cross chaining is so frowned upon. I took the crank apart, and Shimano sandwiches the spider between the two chainrings, which is exactly where I need the single chainring to go. I assume someone has ran into this before...is there a special chainring I can buy that has the proper offset to enable it to be perfectly in line with the spider? As there particular chain ring bolts that I'll need to buy, seeing as how the larger chainring has the threads for the bolts on my current setup?
Thanks so much for the help!
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Like this? Thats a wolftooth ring and blue bolts, and a roadlink and a bigger cassette. Just got the bike built and did a quick ride today, and love it!
#6
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Did the conversion for Ultegra 8000 and my girlfriends bike who has 105 5800.
Regarding the Wolf Tooth Chainring stated above - be aware that there is a minimum size depending on your crank and round vs. elliptical. For the 5800 Crank, you can only go as low as 38T for Elliptical, and 36T for Round (for Ultegra R8000 cranks it was 40T for elliptical and 38t for round due to the crank shape).
Also remember to buy Wolf Tooth 4 Pack chainring bolts as the ones on your cranks won't work.
We also used Shimano XT rear derailleurs + 11-42 cassettes to get the better chain retention with the clutch and range of gears. This meant using the Wolf Tooth Tanpan to change the road shiftier cable pull to MTB cable pull.
Regarding the Wolf Tooth Chainring stated above - be aware that there is a minimum size depending on your crank and round vs. elliptical. For the 5800 Crank, you can only go as low as 38T for Elliptical, and 36T for Round (for Ultegra R8000 cranks it was 40T for elliptical and 38t for round due to the crank shape).
Also remember to buy Wolf Tooth 4 Pack chainring bolts as the ones on your cranks won't work.
We also used Shimano XT rear derailleurs + 11-42 cassettes to get the better chain retention with the clutch and range of gears. This meant using the Wolf Tooth Tanpan to change the road shiftier cable pull to MTB cable pull.
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Did the conversion for Ultegra 8000 and my girlfriends bike who has 105 5800.
Regarding the Wolf Tooth Chainring stated above - be aware that there is a minimum size depending on your crank and round vs. elliptical. For the 5800 Crank, you can only go as low as 38T for Elliptical, and 36T for Round (for Ultegra R8000 cranks it was 40T for elliptical and 38t for round due to the crank shape).
Also remember to buy Wolf Tooth 4 Pack chainring bolts as the ones on your cranks won't work.
We also used Shimano XT rear derailleurs + 11-42 cassettes to get the better chain retention with the clutch and range of gears. This meant using the Wolf Tooth Tanpan to change the road shiftier cable pull to MTB cable pull.
Regarding the Wolf Tooth Chainring stated above - be aware that there is a minimum size depending on your crank and round vs. elliptical. For the 5800 Crank, you can only go as low as 38T for Elliptical, and 36T for Round (for Ultegra R8000 cranks it was 40T for elliptical and 38t for round due to the crank shape).
Also remember to buy Wolf Tooth 4 Pack chainring bolts as the ones on your cranks won't work.
We also used Shimano XT rear derailleurs + 11-42 cassettes to get the better chain retention with the clutch and range of gears. This meant using the Wolf Tooth Tanpan to change the road shiftier cable pull to MTB cable pull.
#8
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Tanpan has been solid for me so far (11s XT RD+5800 mechanical brifters). Shifting is as crisp and precise as with regular 5800 RD.
#9
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Have run it for 4 months now - no issues.
As with anything that forces extra bends / loops as with the Tanpan, shelling out for the best quality cable (XT/XTR or Ultegra/Dura-Ace) pretty much eliminates these potential issues. Have the clutch wound as far back as possible on the XT derailleur - have noticed maybe 5% drop in shifting performance vs. all Ultegra R8000? Beats the hell out of constant slapping I got on singletrack or dropped chains (even 1 dropped chain a month is too much!).
Housing wise, Shimano's basic SP-41 is golden.
As with anything that forces extra bends / loops as with the Tanpan, shelling out for the best quality cable (XT/XTR or Ultegra/Dura-Ace) pretty much eliminates these potential issues. Have the clutch wound as far back as possible on the XT derailleur - have noticed maybe 5% drop in shifting performance vs. all Ultegra R8000? Beats the hell out of constant slapping I got on singletrack or dropped chains (even 1 dropped chain a month is too much!).
Housing wise, Shimano's basic SP-41 is golden.
#10
Member
As with anything that forces extra bends / loops as with the Tanpan, shelling out for the best quality cable (XT/XTR or Ultegra/Dura-Ace) pretty much eliminates these potential issues. Have the clutch wound as far back as possible on the XT derailleur - have noticed maybe 5% drop in shifting performance vs. all Ultegra R8000? Beats the hell out of constant slapping I got on singletrack or dropped chains (even 1 dropped chain a month is too much!).
Housing wise, Shimano's basic SP-41 is golden.
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Hello all, OP back. I went ahead and picked up the WTC 44T chainring, and was able to get it installed yesterday and go for a quick 13 mile adventure around the city I just moved to (Iowa City, IA). Overall, I'm quite pleased with it.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
Last edited by Taylors7558; 06-03-18 at 09:53 PM.
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Hello all, OP back. I went ahead and picked up the WTC 44T chainring, and was able to get it installed yesterday and go for a quick 13 mile adventure around the city I just moved to (Iowa City, IA). Overall, I'm quite pleased with it.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
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You have a 44t 1x ring now when you used to have a 34t small.
and to get the same easy gearing, you will add a massive pieplate cassette?
how often were you crosschaining and shifting the front?
just seems like a lot of money and effort to make it usable.
a 46/30 double with a significantly smaller and lighter 11-32 cassette will give you a bunch of gear range and not make you cross chain as much.
to each their own and all. Hope the new location is fun- the counties around Iowa city have some great gravel.
and to get the same easy gearing, you will add a massive pieplate cassette?
how often were you crosschaining and shifting the front?
just seems like a lot of money and effort to make it usable.
a 46/30 double with a significantly smaller and lighter 11-32 cassette will give you a bunch of gear range and not make you cross chain as much.
to each their own and all. Hope the new location is fun- the counties around Iowa city have some great gravel.
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My thoughts exactly. This was definitely a project born out of wanting somethign to do. I've been intrigued by 1X just like everyone else but when I start pricing out the components it becomes foolish. Buying a bike with 1X already on it seems to be the way to go. Not to mention Sram 1X parts are crazy expensive. Must be a supply and demand thing.
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It isn't so crazy if you're building a bike up from a frame, but it is pretty expensive to convert a bike that's already running a 2x drivetrain, especially if it is a shimano 2x.
#17
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Hello all, OP back. I went ahead and picked up the WTC 44T chainring, and was able to get it installed yesterday and go for a quick 13 mile adventure around the city I just moved to (Iowa City, IA). Overall, I'm quite pleased with it.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
While we are on the topic of swapping cassettes, I have a few more questions...first off, is there a benefit to going to a MTB RD instead of just doing a RoadLink to just drop my 105 RD down some, other than the MTB RD having a clutch? I don't foresee me getting crazy enough to drop a chain, but can always explore the options if I run into that problem. If this is the only reason, why not just do the RoadLink and the Ultregra RX RD as it has a clutch as well?
Secondly, I wanted to ask which cassettes I should be looking for in terms of MTB cassettes. I've read that Shimano Road and MTB 11 speed cassettes share the same chain spacing, as long as you use a 1.8mm spacer when putting a MTB cassette on a road free hub. With that being said, I've seen a 10-45T 11 speed XTR cassette...would that work? I've read somewhere (forget where) that anything less than 11T sprockets are some new, different free hub design...so how can I tell which cassette would work for my bike?
Thanks for all the continued help! I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs to the technical aspect of cycling.
Yes, the new clutched Ultegra derailleur and road-link would work. Though, they are considerably more expensive. Deore XT stuff has been around for years and replacements/spares can be had cheap. If you needed to replace it, any 11sp derailleur would work, but there's only 1 road clutch derailleur from Shimano (that's not properly at present).
MTB 11sp uses the old Shimano 9/10/11 speed freehub. Road 11sp is 11sp specific. To use a 11sp MTB cassette on a road 11sp freehub, you need to add a 1.8mm spacer.
New 12sp XTR Shimano uses a new proprietary freehub design, much like SRAM's XD driver for their upper end 11sp MTB groupsets and all 12sp groupsets as they use a 10t lower sprocket. 11t is the smallest sprocket you can fit on the existing 11sp Shimano splined freehub.
The recommended cassette would be an SLX 11sp or XT 11sp 11-42 cassette for the most range as it would fit within your maximum tooth capacity with that 44t front chainring. Sunrace also make some nice 11sp Shimano freehub body cassettes if you prefer slightly different gaps between your cassette. Anything labelled for use with a "Shimano freehub" will work.
#18
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The majority of gravel bikes come grossly over-geared (with compact 50/34 cranksets and an 11-32 cassette. This is slowly changing with some manufacturers).
Sold off cheap my Ultegra RD, FD and Chainrings and cassette, purchased the Wolf Tooth Chainring, Tanpan and chainring Bolts, XT RD and cassette new - cost me $200 USD in the end.
I needed lower gearing for bike packing (34 x 34 is the lowest with the compact and mid-length RD) and wanted a clutched derailleur to reduce chain-slap on singletrack.
A new sub-compact crankset at Ultegra level quality (and probably BB as Shimano don't make a sub-compact crankset) is 200 USD minimum from FSA, Praxxis or Rotor or Sunigo who do 46/30 crank-sets.
Depends what you use it for. If you live somewhere without solid mountains, ride on pretty buff pavement or road only then it's probably not for you.
If you carry lots of load or ride on rough terrain or live near some big mountains then it's not really an expensive option vs. changing your crankset.
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Not exactly.
The majority of gravel bikes come grossly over-geared (with compact 50/34 cranksets and an 11-32 cassette. This is slowly changing with some manufacturers).
Sold off cheap my Ultegra RD, FD and Chainrings and cassette, purchased the Wolf Tooth Chainring, Tanpan and chainring Bolts, XT RD and cassette new - cost me $200 USD in the end.
I needed lower gearing for bike packing (34 x 34 is the lowest with the compact and mid-length RD) and wanted a clutched derailleur to reduce chain-slap on singletrack.
A new sub-compact crankset at Ultegra level quality (and probably BB as Shimano don't make a sub-compact crankset) is 200 USD minimum from FSA, Praxxis or Rotor or Sunigo who do 46/30 crank-sets.
Depends what you use it for. If you live somewhere without solid mountains, ride on pretty buff pavement or road only then it's probably not for you.
If you carry lots of load or ride on rough terrain or live near some big mountains then it's not really an expensive option vs. changing your crankset.
The majority of gravel bikes come grossly over-geared (with compact 50/34 cranksets and an 11-32 cassette. This is slowly changing with some manufacturers).
Sold off cheap my Ultegra RD, FD and Chainrings and cassette, purchased the Wolf Tooth Chainring, Tanpan and chainring Bolts, XT RD and cassette new - cost me $200 USD in the end.
I needed lower gearing for bike packing (34 x 34 is the lowest with the compact and mid-length RD) and wanted a clutched derailleur to reduce chain-slap on singletrack.
A new sub-compact crankset at Ultegra level quality (and probably BB as Shimano don't make a sub-compact crankset) is 200 USD minimum from FSA, Praxxis or Rotor or Sunigo who do 46/30 crank-sets.
Depends what you use it for. If you live somewhere without solid mountains, ride on pretty buff pavement or road only then it's probably not for you.
If you carry lots of load or ride on rough terrain or live near some big mountains then it's not really an expensive option vs. changing your crankset.
Sram 10s:
- 1X chain ring and bolts
- 10-44 cassette (is this even available in 10s?)
- XD driver freehub
- 1X rear derailluer
Sram 11s:
- all the above plus shifters (ouch $$$)
Shimano 11s:
- not really on my radar as I prefer Sram but does Shimano even make an 11s 10-44 road cassette? Or do you have to go the road/mtb mixed group route to achieve a Shimano 1X setup?
edit: I see you answered some of my questions above, I missed that.
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Last edited by shoota; 06-06-18 at 08:08 AM.
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If you're 100% sure you want your 50x11, throw an 11-36t cassette on your bike and keep the double.
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In my case it's really expensive because in order to equal my gearing range (which I like as is) I would need to buy:
Sram 10s:
- 1X chain ring and bolts
- 10-44 cassette (is this even available in 10s?)
- XD driver freehub
- 1X rear derailluer
Sram 11s:
- all the above plus shifters (ouch $$$)
Shimano 11s:
- not really on my radar as I prefer Sram but does Shimano even make an 11s 10-44 road cassette? Or do you have to go the road/mtb mixed group route to achieve a Shimano 1X setup?
edit: I see you answered some of my questions above, I missed that.
Sram 10s:
- 1X chain ring and bolts
- 10-44 cassette (is this even available in 10s?)
- XD driver freehub
- 1X rear derailluer
Sram 11s:
- all the above plus shifters (ouch $$$)
Shimano 11s:
- not really on my radar as I prefer Sram but does Shimano even make an 11s 10-44 road cassette? Or do you have to go the road/mtb mixed group route to achieve a Shimano 1X setup?
edit: I see you answered some of my questions above, I missed that.
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I'm gonna rehash a comment I made somewhere else on the forums, but here goes. My wife wanted better climbing gear, her FD cage was bent and was bent back enough times that it wasn't staying that way. The RD was already at it's limit with the cassette that was on there, so we were going to have to get a new FD, and 34t was the smallest chainring available. That leaves us getting a new FD, new RD, new cassette, and new chain. She isn't too worried about the paceline cadence, but will be racing cross again next season, so the jumps in the cogs aren't that big of a deal, but the simplicity was important. We went with a sram Gx RD, wolftooth chainring, sunrace cassette, and the usual ol sram 10s chain. No road link needed, and SRAM exact actuation stuff has a 1:1 pull so shifters and RD work with no drama. All said and done... ~300 bucks? The weight was about a wash, nothing exciting one way or the other. The clutch RD is nice, and we have the flexibility to change the cassette to go smaller if needed.
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I'm gonna rehash a comment I made somewhere else on the forums, but here goes. My wife wanted better climbing gear, her FD cage was bent and was bent back enough times that it wasn't staying that way. The RD was already at it's limit with the cassette that was on there, so we were going to have to get a new FD, and 34t was the smallest chainring available. That leaves us getting a new FD, new RD, new cassette, and new chain. She isn't too worried about the paceline cadence, but will be racing cross again next season, so the jumps in the cogs aren't that big of a deal, but the simplicity was important. We went with a sram Gx RD, wolftooth chainring, sunrace cassette, and the usual ol sram 10s chain. No road link needed, and SRAM exact actuation stuff has a 1:1 pull so shifters and RD work with no drama. All said and done... ~300 bucks? The weight was about a wash, nothing exciting one way or the other. The clutch RD is nice, and we have the flexibility to change the cassette to go smaller if needed.
edit: which is why I would want to go 11s, which then mean all new components.
OR I could just keep running my 46-34, 11-32 setup that works just fine :/
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Last edited by shoota; 06-11-18 at 08:59 AM.
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11-42 and it gets pretty wild at the top end. We did a ride through glacier NP, it was 15 miles at 5% or so. The big gear was only used a few times, we may go a size down since she kept having trouble choosing between too high or too low cadences. Learning experience.