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Next new bicycle Steel frame gravel.??

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Next new bicycle Steel frame gravel.??

Old 06-12-18, 08:57 PM
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Next new bicycle Steel frame gravel.??

Hello everyone. I'm really torn apart between 3 different Steel Frame Bicycles with Carbon Forks to purchase for my new bicycle/gravel bike. I also might build one up depending how it comes default. I would really like a Sram 1x system, and I will be rolling on mostly roads as I do live in San Francisco and the bay area. I've done a ton of research on these frames/built bicycles and now asking for the communities help before I drop 2 - 3k on a bicycle. They are 1. Cosmic Stallion or Frame by All City Bikes. 2. Niner RLT9 Steel or Frame. 3. Bombtrack Hook 2 or Bombtrack Hook EXT.

These are the bikes in my price range. I'm not sure if I could save money by doing a full build. Stuff add up quickly and it seems you get a better value buying a complete bicycle. Anyway. I really hope this thread blows up and gives me some new solid information to go off.

I've been riding a steel vintage road bike for years with down-tube shifters and am really excited for the change.

Please feel free to ask any questions. I really would like to get into bike exploration and I really like the comfort of gravel bikes in the city because our roads are absolute ****e.
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Old 06-13-18, 03:20 PM
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I've been riding an (aluminum) RLT9 for 2 years now and I love it. We're neighbors (I live in Oakland) and I've been happy riding this bike on the road and trails, but I do have 2 sets of wheels that allow for easy tire changes depending on what I want to ride that day. I also ride in some of the local gravel races where this bike has been perfect in all respects. Personally, I'm not a fan of 1x on a road bike in a hilly area, but that's more of a strength thing (color me weak...I like the bailout gear on my 46/34 x 11-36 for those long, steep climbs). I would actually have preferred the steel-framed RLT9, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on the aluminum frame. You pay a slight weight penalty with the steel, but you gain the "feel of steel", the additional water bottle bosses under the downtube, and the overall aesthetic of the steel bike. In my opinion, the comments you hear about aluminum being "harsh" don't really apply to a bike where you'll be using high volume tires with low pressures.
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Old 06-13-18, 03:34 PM
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The Bombtracks are the only ones that come stock as a 1x (I think), so if you get one of the others as frames and build it up as 1x yourself it will cost more.

Out of the 2 Bombtracks, the EXT has fatter tires and would be more versatile off road - not sure if that's important to you.
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Old 06-13-18, 06:52 PM
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I just built my RLT steel (last years color scheme, gorgeous blue), set up 1x11 with shimano hydro's. LOVE it! The ride and geo is absolutely fantastic. Running 35's at the moment, plan to get a second wheelset for wider, and throw some 30's on the wheels I have now, and I'll be pretty set. Hit some mild dirt today, and it was awesome. Can't go wrong IMO!
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Old 06-13-18, 07:30 PM
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what size do you need?

47? If so snag this one!!!

Niner RLT 9 Steel 2 Star Apex Bike | Jenson USA
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Old 06-14-18, 08:34 AM
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Cosmic stallion frames aren't being restocked until winter, if your size isn't available.

RLT 9's are all pressfit BB's, if you care.

Norco Search XRs are cool, but also out of stock. Jamis renegades are cool, and available.

None come as a 1x stock, but are available as a frameset.
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Old 06-14-18, 08:39 AM
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Nothing wrong with 2x if that is how the bike comes. It is more versatile
For your type of riding, I greatly prefer CX geometry. It is much more agile, and doesn't have pedal strike issues. Gravel geometry (long, low, slack) is a bit sluggish for urban riding.

I put cross tires on my bike with downtube shifters, and quickly went back to slicks. those knobs hurt if your hand bumps them when shifting!!!
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Old 06-14-18, 08:45 AM
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Generally speaking....your buck goes much further with prebuilt bikes than building yourself....unless you strike some wicked deals, or what you want doesn't exist in consumer space readily as prebuilt.

All 4 of the rids you list would be great for what you propose...Can you testride any and or all of them, to see which you like the handling/ride of? All-City are a QBP brand so are everywhere locally--Niner has lots of LBS across the country. Don't know about Bombtrack.
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Old 06-14-18, 09:17 AM
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Looks like Niner phased out 1x in their latest build options. Maybe less popular?
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Old 06-14-18, 11:00 AM
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Take a ride up north to Point Reyes and check out Black Mountain Cycles. This is near the top on my list...

Home - Black Mountain Cycles
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Old 06-14-18, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RockiesDad
Take a ride up north to Point Reyes and check out Black Mountain Cycles. This is near the top on my list...

Home - Black Mountain Cycles
+1

have my MCD on order, waiting for frames to come in!

Hard to beat the price for frame plus fork: $695.

And the new rear dropouts are pretty sick:
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Old 06-14-18, 01:13 PM
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i don't like hiten, 4130, 653,

725 may be okay

853 is the bomb!

with that said look at this bike

Save Up to 60% Off Disc Brake CycloCross Cross CX Bikes - Motobecane Whipshot 853 Reynolds 853 Steel SRAM FORCE1 Hydraulic Disc Brake CycloCross Cross CX Bikes
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Old 06-14-18, 01:21 PM
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The Salsa Vaya is a good steel all-rounder and I run mine with 38mm tires. Frames are available, but I agree that built up is cheaper. I love the details on the bike and the decent components. Mine is a 2014 and has stood up well to road riding and gravel/crushed limestone

I paid $1599 CDN in 2014.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bicycho415
Please feel free to ask any questions. I really would like to get into bike exploration and I really like the comfort of gravel bikes in the city because our roads are absolute ****e.
ill phrase my suggestion in the form of a question.
have you considered Black Mountain Cycles?

as mentioned, they are local at an hour north of you. The owner, Mike Varley, has been in the business for more than a few decades now, worked on bike design at haro/masi, has forgotten more than most will ever know about the history of local bike design and culture, and all his frames are quality heat treated and butted cromoly steel with ED coating to prevent rust. Nothing is proprietary either. BSA BB, 27.2 round seatpost, 1 1/8 headtube- standard and servicable for years to come.
if you want a carbon fork, just go buy a Whiskey(#9?) one after the fact. Not much need for one in my view, but to each their own. Canti and disc brake options now too.

I bought a frame and built mine up for a lot less than what Mike charges, but he build the wheels and charges accordingly.
anyways, if you buy a frame from him, he will help talk you thru the build if you have questions.

buy local(even if it's made overseas!)



if you are set only on the options you mention, i would go with All City. It's made in the same reliable factory as the Black Mountain, uses the same rust coating, has a Whiskey fork, has the same dropouts as Black Mountain, and is well spec'd overall.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval
hey OP- dont think that 4130 is any worse than 853. It isnt. What's more important is the frame geometry, butting profile of each tube, and thickness of each tube.

these 3 things matter way more than if it's unbranded 4130 or branded 853 tubing. The 3 things mentioned will make a great bike if done properly for the intended rider and activity.

and there is just no reason to dismiss 653. Funny that its 'not liked', as if 2 identical bikes in every way but frame tubing being 653 and 853 were ridden over and again to compare and 653 was deemed 'not liked'? Ha.

if a bike is made of 653 and doesnt ride well or isnt 'fun, it's because the bike is poorly made/has poor geometry. It isnt because 653 isnt good enough.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:37 PM
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I'm sure you'll enjoy any of those bikes. My gravel bike is a 1971 Raleigh Super Course.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
hey OP- dont think that 4130 is any worse than 853. It isnt.
when did "like" get turned into "worse"?

do you need a dictionary?
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Old 06-14-18, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval
when did "like" get turned into "worse"?

do you need a dictionary?
I dont need a dictionary. Since many times in conversation, something that a person doesnt like is then viewed as 'worse', i thought I helpful to mention to the OP that he shouldnt view frame material in that way.
no dictionary needed at all.

I am gushing with curiosity as to why you don't like 653. And what bikes have you ridden that are made of 653? Form what ive read, it's an odd duck mix of other tube models to satisfy Merckx back in the day. Does this also mean you don't like the tube models that makes up 653?
did you mean 631 this whole time? And if so, what bike have you ridden in 631 and 853 to determine you don't like one but think the other is 'the bomb'?

so much curiosity.
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Old 06-14-18, 03:16 PM
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Second the Black Mountain cycle..... really close to bay area.
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Old 06-14-18, 03:25 PM
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OP quote
I will be rolling on mostly roads as I do live in San Francisco and the bay area.
HILLS , lighter will be his friend! if he wants steel the lighter steel will be his friend.

he also wanted 1x, I gave my opinion on steels, I gave him a 1x 853 affordable option.

the OP is the ONLY person I feel like assisting.
My line up of steels that are most desirable most likely line up with the majority of the world, and they will excluding retrogrouches. I don't have to prove diddly to you.

if you want to sell the OP on 4130 > 853 go for it, just don't quote me in the process and Intentionally swap meanings in process.

Last edited by Metieval; 06-14-18 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 06-14-18, 06:43 PM
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I'm sold on steel, and 1x11. My gravel/adventure/urban/you-name it bike is a trusty Cross Check, originally flat bar singlespeed, now a drop bar, 1x11 SLX, with a Gevenalle shifter(kinda like having a bar-end shifter on your hood).
Anyhow, the Surly is 4130, and to me at least, rides super comfy in the rough, FWIW.
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Old 06-14-18, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval
if you want to sell the OP on 4130 > 853 go for it, just don't quote me in the process and Intentionally swap meanings in process.
so...i cut out the parts where you don't justify the reason(s) for not liking 653(or is it 631?) since it didn't seem to have much substance.
I havent intentionally, or even accidentally, swapped meanings.
I also havent tried to sell anyone on 4130 being better than 853.
Heat treated double butted 4130 in a proper butting profile for the intended use is simply not something to dismiss.
do you even know the insignificant weight difference between an 853 frame and an otherwise identically built HT 4130 DB frame? This doesnt even begin to address the fact that there are over 500 tubeset variations for 853(per Reynolds). Which group of tubes of that 500+ grouping is 'the bomb'?


I really don't like posting this sort of stuff because i love reading the opinions of others on this board...when they arent what appears to be baselessly dismissive.
if you had just posted that 853 is the bomb, i would have probably just cocked my head a bit and moved on. But I found it funny and potentially detrimental to the OP's opinion formation that you don't like anything less than 853 and provide no reason(s) why.

OP- apologies for this tangent. I'll try to remove myself or stay on topic which is you and a new bike.
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Old 06-15-18, 06:19 AM
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Check out the Rodeo Labs Flaanimal 4.0. I have a 3.0 I got when they were blowing them out and it's been great. I built it up with Sram 1x and run it with 700c 32mm tires on the road and hardpack 650b x 47 for gravel and dirt. The 4.0 is definitely not the cheapest frame around at $1500 but it's 725 steel, comes with a really nice carbon fork, has a billion mounts, and is super flexible with drive train options.
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Old 06-15-18, 04:27 PM
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Excellent responses everyone. And i haven't even the time to read them all . I'll let you know what I decide on. They have a carbon version of the RLT 9 at big wheel bikes on van ness. But they loaned out the fork for a rider and won't get it back for a week. So i'm going back to test ride it when they get the fork back. We'll see how it fits.

I asked the LBS and they said that the 58cm in All City Stallion might be too big as they size funny. So I'm going to try and find a 55cm, the next size down.

I'm sure I'll be stoked on any of my purchases. And yes I've found that the better deal is buying a complete bike. As you start buying everything individually, you basically start spending hundreds of dollars more for the same thing. So maybe a complete bike would be best.

I agree about the CX geometry. I do like a very lively ride for city riding. Fast, agile. But I do like a more relaxed geometry as well. So maybe a CX frame is in my future too. But there's so much to think about.

I will most certainly check out Black Mountain bikes in Marine.

Super excited to get riding on nice wheels.

The RLT 9 steel is or Cosmic Stallion is still where I"m leaning.

Last edited by Bicycho415; 06-15-18 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 06-15-18, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
so...i cut out the parts where you don't justify the reason(s) for not liking 653(or is it 631?) since it didn't seem to have much substance.
I havent intentionally, or even accidentally, swapped meanings.
I also havent tried to sell anyone on 4130 being better than 853.
Heat treated double butted 4130 in a proper butting profile for the intended use is simply not something to dismiss.
do you even know the insignificant weight difference between an 853 frame and an otherwise identically built HT 4130 DB frame? This doesnt even begin to address the fact that there are over 500 tubeset variations for 853(per Reynolds). Which group of tubes of that 500+ grouping is 'the bomb'?


I really don't like posting this sort of stuff because i love reading the opinions of others on this board...when they arent what appears to be baselessly dismissive.
if you had just posted that 853 is the bomb, i would have probably just cocked my head a bit and moved on. But I found it funny and potentially detrimental to the OP's opinion formation that you don't like anything less than 853 and provide no reason(s) why.

OP- apologies for this tangent. I'll try to remove myself or stay on topic which is you and a new bike.
No worries, everyone has an opinion and yes 853 is the holy grail of steel. But that's not to say other formulas are inferior.
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