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Where have all the canti-lever framesets gone?

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Where have all the canti-lever framesets gone?

Old 09-18-18, 09:02 PM
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raria
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Where have all the canti-lever framesets gone?

I enjoy building up bikes from framesets to get exactly what I want. I wanted a frameset with larger tire clearance but I prefer to take the canti or v-brake route rather than the disc-brake route and was hoping to find some good cantilever framesets out there for under $500.

Only found one decent weighted one (New Albion Privateer) but not much else, not even on e-bay. Perhaps I'm searching in the wrong places?

Last edited by raria; 09-18-18 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 09-18-18, 11:13 PM
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Have you checked out Black mountain Monster Cross?
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Old 09-19-18, 03:28 AM
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Ritchey has one and it actually cost more than disc version
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Old 09-19-18, 08:05 AM
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Because canti is dead. Disc is better in every way.
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Old 09-19-18, 08:11 AM
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Agreed with a condition

Good hydraulic discs beat the pants of the best cantis or vbrakes.

But good cantis and vbrakes beat good mechanical disks particularly for QR hubs

Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Because canti is dead. Disc is better in every way.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:00 AM
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black mountain.
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Old 09-19-18, 09:13 AM
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bikeisland has a decent aluminum canti frame, an unbranded KHS CX200 that might (?) run 40c tires. I think this frameset would make a serviceable road and gravel bike. Little bit on the heavy side but at least it ain't made of plastic ;-) except the front fork. The steel Black Mountain frames are probably worth the extra $300 if you want a really nice long-term bike.

here's a link, I'm referring to the Dawes frame in the middle: http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=List&SubCategory=Parts:%20Framesets-Cyclocross

here's what the KHS CX200 looks like: https://khsbicycles.com/05_cx_200_08.htm

geometry at the bottom of the chart: https://khsbicycles.com/Images/Geome...geo-road-b.jpg

Black Mountain Cycles http://blackmtncycles.com/product-category/frames/

I would build it with mini-V brakes instead of cantilevers.

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 09-19-18 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
bicycleisland has a decent aluminum canti frame, an unbranded KHS CX200 that might (?) run 40c tires.
Got a link? That flipping website gives me a headache.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:40 AM
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Where have all the cantilever framesets gone? I think they're stacked next to the wood-rimmed wheelsets.

(I never had a set of canti's that stopped the bike with authority. Dragging my feet seemed an improvement!)
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Old 09-19-18, 10:42 AM
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There should be plenty of good used frames from about a decade or more ago.

Both V-Brake and Canti-Brake frames should be compatible.

I assume you are looking for a drop bar 700c bike with moderate width tires. Keep an eye out on the Hybrid market.

I have an older Jamis Coda that I built up. Double butted 520 steel. Not the lightest, but not bad, considering. It came out fairly similar to my Tricross (which has cantis).

I actually left the V-Brakes on the Coda, and went with Tektro 520 levers.



I can't say the bike is the prettiest bike, but the base bike was only $50. I put a lot more into the rebuild. And, it should serve it's purpose well.
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Old 09-19-18, 10:47 AM
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I had the same issue. I wanted to build up a CX bike from spare parts including non-disc wheels I already owned. Took months of trawling eBay, but I finally found a NOS Ellsworth Roots frameset.
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Old 09-19-18, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Where have all the cantilever framesets gone? I think they're stacked next to the wood-rimmed wheelsets.

(I never had a set of canti's that stopped the bike with authority. Dragging my feet seemed an improvement!)
You're clearly doing it wrong.
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Old 09-19-18, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Because canti is dead. Disc is better in every way.
Yeah, the old engineer's criteria of which you can have 2 out of three - lighter, stronger, cheaper. Disc brakes are lighter (well,no), stronger (probably) and cheaper (??) Now, one thing disc brakes has done is leveled the playing field weight-wise ... many frames that can be purchased in either format are overbuilt to handle discs whether or not disc mounts are provided to simplify production. So production non-disc bikes are often paying a weight penalty for the discs that aren't there (and allowing disc fans to talk about how small the weight difference is).

I have cantis on my old Peter Mooney. They worked great getting me down Alba Road above Santa Cruz, CA when the bike was new 39 years ago (in pouring rain) and again last summer going down the 18% windy grades on very rough gravel (Trask River Trail). In the meantime I have done virtually no maintenance on them save changing pads and cables. I did upgrade the calipers from Mafac to Shimano but only because I picked up a frame with the Shimanos and they were nicer. (In operation, no different.) Taken them apart, cleaned and lubed them a couple of times. (Very easy.)

So, in 39 years I have spent, oh say $150 in housings, pads and cables and have replaced levers twice (more for cockpit upgrades and comfort than anything having to do with brake performance so that would have happened with discs also. I paid $30 for the canti option when I ordered the frame (which probably added 100 gms to the weight, offset a little by using the very light calipers). Paid probably around $60 for the levers and calipers. So that's $240 spread out over 39 years and (in a few weeks) 50,000 miles. Doubling that amount for today's dollar, you are saying that you can ride your disc bike 50,000 miles and will have spent no more than $480 between purchase and the year 2057?

So discs are lighter? Cheaper? More maintenance free? OK, maybe better stoppers, The brakes on that Mooney has been a joy from day one. Yes, on that 4 mile descent of Alba Road, my index fingers tired from braking continuously (11% grade, tight turns and sheets of water running over the road) and halfway down, I had to go to two fingers.

Cantis are far from dead. They may be out of production, but the cantis out there will go on many more years and miles. (And a prediction - someone will figure out that they work really well and start making them again. Sadly, we will have to pay Paul prices for a brake that worked superbly with 1950s technology.)

Ben
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Old 09-19-18, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
Good hydraulic discs beat the pants of the best cantis or vbrakes.

But good cantis and vbrakes beat good mechanical disks particularly for QR hubs
I don't agree.

Not after using the Paul Klamper which is stupid easy to set up and is a very good brake. I was seriously surprised by this brake.

Hydros just work great and can be had cheap. My Hayes CX expert became a decent brake after I learned how to properly adjust them. Not as good as hydros or the Klamper though. About equal to my XT v brakes on my Rivendell.

Cantis and vbrakes lose because you have to adjust each individual pad during setup, spring tension, and when you do take the tire off and you happen to be using a wide tire you got to either let air out or beat the tire out of the brake.

Not that I hate cantis or v brakes, but after using all of these, I cannot argue that cantis or v brakes beat discs (maybe those bb5 brakes which totally suck as do my cheap sram hydros, but some people like sram brakes. Go figure).
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Old 09-19-18, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
...

Cantis and vbrakes lose because you have to adjust each individual pad during setup, spring tension, and when you do take the tire off and you happen to be using a wide tire you got to either let air out or beat the tire out of the brake.

...
Slipping the bridle out the canti arm is easy. Tektro levers have release buttons also. I find pulling out a 37c tire on an Open Pro rim a piece of cake.

Ben
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Old 09-19-18, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Slipping the bridle out the canti arm is easy. Tektro levers have release buttons also. I find pulling out a 37c tire on an Open Pro rim a piece of cake.

Ben
I got 55mm G-Ones on Velocity Cliffhangers on my Appaloosa using Shimano Xt v-brakes and I have to pound the tire to get the wheel out or release air. Cantis wouldn't do any better either as the pads contact the fork/seatstay and only allow for so much clearance. It's an annoyance, one which I do not have with disc brakes.

It's not the only bike that has done this to me when using cantis or v brakes...my '96 stumpy is the same way in the rear (it's got a disc up front). Getting wire slack to the brake really isn't the issue.

my main point is that cantis and v brakes do a fine job with some drawbacks, but they do not beat discs...which are the future and the reason why canti frames are getting harder to come by.
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Old 09-19-18, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Slipping the bridle out the canti arm is easy. Tektro levers have release buttons also. I find pulling out a 37c tire on an Open Pro rim a piece of cake.

Ben
I find getting the yoke off of Cantis is a major pain if one sets them for reasonably tight clearance.

My Shimano brifters don't have releases.

I suppose there is a release on the Campy brifters on my road bike, but I can never think to use it (using Ultegra brakes with a release that I do use).

There is a Dura Ace inline cable release. Perhaps I should buy a few.
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Old 09-19-18, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Cantis wouldn't do any better either as the pads contact the fork/seatstay and only allow for so much clearance.
This depends on the brake and pad geometry. V-brakes generally come with extremely long shoes that interfere with blades/stays, but many cantis have shorter pads held to swing clear.
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Old 09-19-18, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Where have all the cantilever framesets gone? I think they're stacked next to the wood-rimmed wheelsets.

(I never had a set of canti's that stopped the bike with authority. Dragging my feet seemed an improvement!)
can't say I have ever had to Fred Flintstone my bike to a stop.

fully loaded touring bike stops fine with cantis. Gravel bike stops fine with cantis.
and I am 230#, so not light.

all seriousness, if my brakes were set up like thst I too would want to scrap em. That would not be fun.
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Old 09-19-18, 07:42 PM
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Thanks and found another

Thanks @CliffordK For an old guy you sure are smart!
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Keep an eye out on the Hybrid market.
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
bikeisland has a decent aluminum canti frame, an unbranded KHS CX200 that might (?) run 40c tires. I think this frameset would make a serviceable road and gravel bike. Little bit on the heavy side but at least it ain't made of plastic ;-) except the front fork. The steel Black Mountain frames are probably worth the extra $300 if you want a really nice long-term bike.

here's a link, I'm referring to the Dawes frame in the middle: BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping
Thanks. I found another on bikeisland

BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping

Both appear to have short head tubes and I have no idea how stiff they are or how they ride. Any insight from owners? Both are gravel/cyclo bikes

It's a Fantom Cross but for the life of me I can't find a proper geometry chart with stack/reach and head tube length (see Fantom Cross Frame Geometry)
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Old 09-21-18, 11:10 AM
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specialized Tricross, fits 45mm tires and BB is low enough that it feels right
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Old 09-21-18, 11:34 AM
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under 30?

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I find getting the yoke off of Cantis is a major pain if one sets them for reasonably tight clearance.

My Shimano brifters don't have releases.

I suppose there is a release on the Campy brifters on my road bike, but I can never think to use it (using Ultegra brakes with a release that I do use).

There is a Dura Ace inline cable release. Perhaps I should buy a few.
Clever mechanics for Cyclocross racing, modified the bobbin ends of the transverse cable,
threading it to use an adjuster on the end of the cable with the head on the wire.
some companies like Avid put them on their brakes, (it's on the right end in picture)..


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Old 09-23-18, 07:18 PM
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Here's a good deal on a beautiful steel frame. British Racing Green.

The silver frames also look great. Silver bikes need natural polished aluminum components to maximize their elegance.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=71076&category=119

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=84199&category=119

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 09-23-18 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 09-24-18, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
Here's a good deal on a beautiful steel frame. British Racing Green.

The silver frames also look great. Silver bikes need natural polished aluminum components to maximize their elegance.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...6&category=119

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...9&category=119
Not a single one of those are in stock though.

I'd be tempted by an All City Nature Boy, seems to tick all the boxes.
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Old 09-24-18, 11:12 AM
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https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...meset/p/17030/
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