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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Salsa Cutthroat

Old 11-09-18, 07:27 AM
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UberIM
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Salsa Cutthroat

I initially posted in mtn biking section but wrong choice.

I like the Salsa Cutthroat
I like carbon (I have a Salsa Mukluk carbon frame fat bike which I love).
For combo single track and gravel thinking about the Cutthroat but was wondering if there was an option for a
Drop Bar Mtn bike framed bike like the Cutthroat but in a 26" rather than 29er.
Someone said 26" is dead. Really? And why?
Anyway, seeing if there is a bike out there for me

Thanks,
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Old 11-09-18, 07:40 AM
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fwiw, lot's of ppl have done conversions
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Old 11-09-18, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
I initially posted in mtn biking section but wrong choice.
For combo single track and gravel thinking about the Cutthroat but was wondering if there was an option for a
Drop Bar Mtn bike framed bike like the Cutthroat but in a 26" rather than 29er.
29' and 27.5" have taken over 26" as the predominant new bike wheel sizes in gravel and MTB. why?- trends and a lack of downside, i guess.
What does a 26" wheel do that a 27.5" wheel cant do?...pretty much nothing as the benefit of a smaller wheel is maneuverability and riders are still agile enough on 27.5" wheels.
Meanwhile, the angle of attack for 27.5 or 29er wheels is not as steep as 26" wheels, so the wheels roll over things easier/better.

no real downside to the larger tires. with that said, i am building a 26" mtb for my oldest daughter. that wheelsize is perfect for her because its a small frame and fits the small frame geometry best. I hope 26" bikes continue in the small sizes for this reason.


I guess the question to you is why do you want a 26er? what benefit(s) is there for the style of riding you want to do?
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Old 11-09-18, 08:47 AM
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If you have the skill/tools/time, build your own. Find a suitable 26" MTB frame, add Woodchippers (or Cowchippers, or your choice of dirt/gravel drops) and the ergo shifters of your choice. Some will claim that your bike will be a hopeless bodge but Woodchippers were designed to do just this sort of thing and plenty of people find that it works great. I used SRAM 10sp on mine since their 10sp road and MTB derailleurs both use the same cable pull ratios.

But, a quick check will find you that 26" tire bikes are diminishing in number. Check 26" tire selection first before you dive into this as the tire options are sure to follow the bike options given time. 27.5 and 29 seem to be where the market has decided we will have our choices at the moment. I doubt 26" tires will vanish completely since I can still get 27" road tires, but you won't have the best choices. Maybe this is a problem for you, maybe not.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:11 AM
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Curious why you want 26"?

I still ride a lot on 26", but the tire selection is now limited to entry or touring tires. All the tires that I want are no longer made in 26".
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Old 11-09-18, 10:17 AM
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26" is deader than disco and has been for years. 26 can be terrific, but just from an availability perspective I would not go with a 26er today.

The Cutthroat is a great bike if that's what you're looking for. It's designed as an endurance adventure bike / bikepacking rig. It's not particularly suited to fast gravel racing but it's very versatile. There are lots of 650B (27.5) adventure bikes out there that may meet your needs some carbon some not, some racy some not: Salsa Warbird, All City Gorilla Monsoon, Ibis Hakka MX, Norco Search XR, Bombtrack Hook EXT-C, Ridley X-Trail etc, etc, etc. Probably literally 100 options out there these days. Tons of tire options as well. There are even more 700C/29er options. The world is your oyster.
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Old 11-09-18, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
26 can be terrific, but just from an availability perspective I would not go with a 26er today.
I agree, although there's been a resurgence of sorts as some manufacturers are going to a "26 plus" wheel that mimics the dimensions of a 27.5 with normal tires. The Surly Lowside, as well as some women-specific mountain bike models from Jamis are using it. Nothing for gravel or 'cross that I've see yet, but who knows what's coming!
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Old 11-09-18, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
fwiw, lot's of ppl have done conversions
so you are suggesting finding a carbon 26er and then converting to drop handlebars?
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Old 11-09-18, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EdwinHeadwind View Post
I agree, although there's been a resurgence of sorts as some manufacturers are going to a "26 plus" wheel that mimics the dimensions of a 27.5 with normal tires. The Surly Lowside, as well as some women-specific mountain bike models from Jamis are using it. Nothing for gravel or 'cross that I've see yet, but who knows what's coming!
Interesting
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Old 11-09-18, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
26" is deader than disco and has been for years. 26 can be terrific, but just from an availability perspective I would not go with a 26er today.

The Cutthroat is a great bike if that's what you're looking for. It's designed as an endurance adventure bike / bikepacking rig. It's not particularly suited to fast gravel racing but it's very versatile. There are lots of 650B (27.5) adventure bikes out there that may meet your needs some carbon some not, some racy some not: Salsa Warbird, All City Gorilla Monsoon, Ibis Hakka MX, Norco Search XR, Bombtrack Hook EXT-C, Ridley X-Trail etc, etc, etc. Probably literally 100 options out there these days. Tons of tire options as well. There are even more 700C/29er options. The world is your oyster.
Interesting. Speed is not what I am aiming for. Versatility. Something that if I put on studded tires can ride year round in northern New England. The Cutthroat is something that could go from road to single track.
I am also very confused. 27.5/650b-that was the Brevit size? Also 27.5 4 " tires is a thinner fat bike. Salsa Beargrease........So totally confused. 27.5 non fat tires out there too?
I do love a carbon frame-light, nimble and comfortable.

Is there a 27.5 carbon frame bike with 2.25 tires?

I am short. I have a Kona SS 29er. rides ok for a commuter but I don't like it off road........17" feels unwieldy to me
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Old 11-09-18, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper View Post
If you have the skill/tools/time, build your own. Find a suitable 26" MTB frame, add Woodchippers (or Cowchippers, or your choice of dirt/gravel drops) and the ergo shifters of your choice. Some will claim that your bike will be a hopeless bodge but Woodchippers were designed to do just this sort of thing and plenty of people find that it works great. I used SRAM 10sp on mine since their 10sp road and MTB derailleurs both use the same cable pull ratios.

But, a quick check will find you that 26" tire bikes are diminishing in number. Check 26" tire selection first before you dive into this as the tire options are sure to follow the bike options given time. 27.5 and 29 seem to be where the market has decided we will have our choices at the moment. I doubt 26" tires will vanish completely since I can still get 27" road tires, but you won't have the best choices. Maybe this is a problem for you, maybe not.
I don't have the skills. though my retirement idea is to volunteer in my LBS and learn how to work on bikes. For now, it is just my dream.
Interesting about the vanishing 26ers
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Old 11-09-18, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
29' and 27.5" have taken over 26" as the predominant new bike wheel sizes in gravel and MTB. why?- trends and a lack of downside, i guess.
What does a 26" wheel do that a 27.5" wheel cant do?...pretty much nothing as the benefit of a smaller wheel is maneuverability and riders are still agile enough on 27.5" wheels.
Meanwhile, the angle of attack for 27.5 or 29er wheels is not as steep as 26" wheels, so the wheels roll over things easier/better.

no real downside to the larger tires. with that said, i am building a 26" mtb for my oldest daughter. that wheelsize is perfect for her because its a small frame and fits the small frame geometry best. I hope 26" bikes continue in the small sizes for this reason.


I guess the question to you is why do you want a 26er? what benefit(s) is there for the style of riding you want to do?
Why I want a 26er? I am short. My 29er is a 17" Kona and I find it kinda unwieldy on single track. I like my 26/5"" Mukluk.

Maybe go for a 650b?/27.5? carbon frame?
Know of any?
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Old 11-09-18, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
Interesting. Speed is not what I am aiming for. Versatility. Something that if I put on studded tires can ride year round in northern New England. The Cutthroat is something that could go from road to single track.
Yeah, the Cutthroat would be great for that type of riding. They're cool bikes, a friend has one.

I am also very confused. 27.5/650b-that was the Brevit size?
Yup. It's very hip right now amongst the gravel/adventure crowd. 27.5/650 also became one of the MTB standards a few years back. My trail bike is 27.5

Also 27.5 4 " tires is a thinner fat bike.
Correct. Most fatbikes are 26ers with 4" or 5" tires. My fatbike is 26x5. Trek and some others use 27.5x4.

So totally confused. 27.5 non fat tires out there too?
Absolutely. Tons of MTB, gravel and road tires in that size.

Is there a 27.5 carbon frame bike with 2.25 tires?
Extremely common in MTB. Most MTB tires are 2.3-2.8 and either 29er or 27.5 these days. Not as common with adventure tires and frames, but certainly available.

I am short. I have a Kona SS 29er. rides ok for a commuter but I don't like it off road........17" feels unwieldy to me
You seem like a prime candidate for 650B.

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Old 11-09-18, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Curious why you want 26"?

I still ride a lot on 26", but the tire selection is now limited to entry or touring tires. All the tires that I want are no longer made in 26".
I'm short and want a nimble bike
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Old 11-09-18, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Yeah, the Cutthroat would be great for that type of riding. They're cool bikes, a friend has one.

Yup. It's very hip right now amongst the gravel/adventure crowd. 27.5/650 also became one of the MTB standards a few years back. My trail bike is 27.5

Correct. Most fatbikes are 26ers with 4" or 5" tires. My fatbike is 26x5.

Absolutely. Tons of MTB, gravel and road tires in that size.

Extremely common in MTB. Most MTB tires are 2.3-2.8 these days.

You seem like a prime candidate for 650B.
Thanks. I am not a frequent contributor but always find peeps here helpful and kind.
Are 27.5 and 650b the same?
Thanks,
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Old 11-09-18, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
Thanks. I am not a frequent contributor but always find peeps here helpful and kind.
Are 27.5 and 650b the same?
Thanks,
Yes they are - just like a 29" and a 700c road wheel is the same. Well, same diameter (Road hubs and widths and axles can be a lot different than mountain - Gravel can sometimes go either way, or be in the middle).

You have a good reason for looking for a 26" wheel (although 27.5 might give you more selection).
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Old 11-09-18, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
Why I want a 26er? I am short.
I know you said you're not a wrench (yet!), and converting an older MTB was already mentioned. That worked for me. If you want to lose the better part of a morning (or evening) start on page one and go forward-- so many cool projects in this, my favorite thread in the C&V forum:

Show Your Vintage MTB Drop Bar Conversions

Whether old-school or you buy a nice new 650B, best of luck and many happy miles!
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Old 11-09-18, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
so you are suggesting finding a carbon 26er and then converting to drop handlebars?
oh whoops, no, my bad, sorry, missed that part
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Old 11-09-18, 03:58 PM
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It's hard for me to find a 27.5 without front suspension
what do you call a mtn bike without any suspension?
I see lots of bikes with front suspension called hardballs.
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Old 11-09-18, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
It's hard for me to find a 27.5 without front suspension
what do you call a mtn bike without any suspension?
I see lots of bikes with front suspension called hardballs.
No suspension = rigid, front suspension = hardtail. Rigid mountain bikes are a bit rare these days, a Surly Karate Monkey or Marin Pine Mountain might be worth a look. Other, go with a vintage 26er. Lots of good ones on Ebay, I just posted a bunch in the thread linked above.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Rigid mountain bikes are a bit rare these days, a Surly Karate Monkey or Marin Pine Mountain might be worth a look. .
I just bought a Kona Unit X. 27.5 plus, rigid and super fun!

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Old 11-10-18, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
I don't have the skills. though my retirement idea is to volunteer in my LBS and learn how to work on bikes. For now, it is just my dream.
Interesting about the vanishing 26ers
Yeah, I have no explanation for WHY they are vanishing, but it's the case currently. Maybe later it'll be cool and retro and come back, who knows! There are very many dead wheel standards out there though. The current situation of 650B/27.5 and 700C/29er makes a lot of sense from a standpoint of common tooling and efficient production.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, bike mechanicing isn't really that difficult. Certainly easier than car work if you work on your own car. A 26" conversion would require some knowledge of parts compatibility between road controls and MTB components though.

But, until you have time to learn the skills, I'd think that the growing number of 650x47 tire gravel bikes would be a good place for you to look if you want a smaller diameter wheel than a 29er. Many have already compared the fatter-tired edge of gravel bikes/adventure bikes to a modern drop bar incarnation of a rigid MTB. This guy: https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/new...el-bike_481072 just won a MTB race on a 650B gravel bike. Sure, it's not a highly technical course, but it's also not your typical gravel race either.
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Old 11-10-18, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper View Post
Yeah, I have no explanation for WHY they are vanishing, but it's the case currently. Maybe later it'll be cool and retro and come back, who knows! There are very many dead wheel standards out there though. The current situation of 650B/27.5 and 700C/29er makes a lot of sense from a standpoint of common tooling and efficient production.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, bike mechanicing isn't really that difficult. Certainly easier than car work if you work on your own car. A 26" conversion would require some knowledge of parts compatibility between road controls and MTB components though.

But, until you have time to learn the skills, I'd think that the growing number of 650x47 tire gravel bikes would be a good place for you to look if you want a smaller diameter wheel than a 29er. Many have already compared the fatter-tired edge of gravel bikes/adventure bikes to a modern drop bar incarnation of a rigid MTB. This guy: https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/new...el-bike_481072 just won a MTB race on a 650B gravel bike. Sure, it's not a highly technical course, but it's also not your typical gravel race either.
Thanks so much. Food for thought! If I weren't approaching the N+1= D (the next addition which leads to a divorce - LOL), I wouldn't obsess so much about it. This could be my last bike.........
On a totally removed POV, it is fascinating to see how the industry-technology and riding techniques keep evolving.......
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Old 11-10-18, 05:38 PM
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So, I think the Carbon Gravel bike with 650b/27.5 tires. Can get I think up to 2-2.1" width knobby tires.
That might be just the ticket

Salsa Warbird Force 1 makes an excessively expensive 650b bike.
Ibis Hakka MX looks intriguing. Bikepacker mag says it is a carbon frame/fork yet the website gives no other info.
Breadwinner bikes?

Any other carbon framed gravel bikes that take 650b tires?

Thanks so much!
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Old 11-14-18, 07:19 PM
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There are some cool Chinese gravel frames including a copy of the 3T Exploro
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