Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Sram 1x12 eTap for gravel

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Old 02-09-19, 12:21 PM
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Sram 1x12 eTap for gravel

Personally, I don't recommend 1x11 (or 1x12) setups for gravel. Most friends who started with this combination either need to change the chainring several times a year (depending on the events planned) or have gone back to doubles. It's difficult to improve on a 46 & 33 combination with a 11-36 cassette. (yes, I mean 33, they are available for a 110 BCD crank)

But if a 1x12 with drop bars is the combination you seek, ​​​​​​and you want want the the latest eTap technology: see...

https://launch.sram.com/en/axs/the-mullet-bike

(Sram) "recommend(s) combining a pair of AXS drop bar levers with an Eagle AXS rear derailleur, Eagle chain, 10-50t Eagle cassette, and your choice of either an Eagle or road AXS 1x crankset to build the raddest drop bar bike on the block".









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Old 02-09-19, 12:34 PM
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(Sram) "recommend(s) combining a pair of AXS drop bar levers with an Eagle AXS rear derailleur, Eagle chain, 10-50t Eagle cassette, and your choice of either an Eagle or road AXS 1x crankset to build the raddest drop bar bike on the block".
A $200-$450 cassette (remember MAP=MSRP so no sales)....and a $700 crankset for a bike that is going to get abused and beaten to hell. I have to laugh a little bit.


At least the chains are still reasonably priced.
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Old 02-09-19, 12:54 PM
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The only thing I like about that whole deal is that chain. I'm a sucker for oil-slick.

Also thankful for almost-always dry SoCal conditions. I get 10k+ out of a chainring... and mine don't have fancy PMs built into them, so a replacement is like 70 bucks.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:41 PM
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High end bike owner's peer pressure when they gather in groups on these Rides, is A push, or a pull.?.
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Old 02-09-19, 02:49 PM
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Not sure where you got your info but the new 12 speed road axs does both 1x and 2x. And if the 33 rear cog is not big enough my understanding is the brifters will work with the mtb rear derailleur.


https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25...ch-gearingSRAM has focused on providing a wider range of gears and smaller jumps, with more flexibility to build a groupset to meet a widening band of requirements.Those three cassette options are:
  • 10-26
  • 10-28
  • 10-33
And the three chainset options are:
  • 50/37
  • 48/35
  • 46/33
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Old 02-09-19, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
Personally, I don't recommend 1x11 (or 1x12) setups for gravel. Most friends who started with this combination either need to change the chainring several times a year (depending on the events planned) or have gone back to doubles. It's difficult to improve on a 46 & 33 combination with a 11-36 cassette. (yes, I mean 33, they are available for a 110 BCD crank)
SRAM AXS definitely looks like a great thing, whether 1x or 2x. The fact that communication is universal between MTB and Road components will make for a versatile system.

But, I gotta ask, as a fellow 2x fan, why drop the big ring to 46 if the small ring is 33? Why not 48/33 or even see if the FD can handle 50/33. I've always preferred to keep the chainring tooth count as far apart as practical for the best range.
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Old 02-09-19, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper View Post
But, I gotta ask, as a fellow 2x fan, why drop the big ring to 46 if the small ring is 33? Why not 48/33 or even see if the FD can handle 50/33. I've always preferred to keep the chainring tooth count as far apart as practical for the best range.
I like the Sram Eagle cranksets more than I like any of the 12 speed cassettes currently available. I use a 46/33, it provides speed range that tops out in the 30-35 mph range. I generally coast when the bike gets above 30 mph on gravel. I've hit 45 mph on gravel, but I was descending, no pedaling needed.

With a 33 & 46 crankset, a 11-36 Sram eleven speed cassette and 700x40 tires a 100 rpm cadence is good for about 34 mph. A steep 4.5 mph climb can be done with a 60 rpm cadence. That's a good range for me.

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Old 02-09-19, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wsteve464 View Post
Not sure where you got your info but the new 12 speed road axs does both 1x and 2x. And if the 33 rear cog is not big enough my understanding is the brifters will work with the mtb rear derailleur.


https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25...ch-gearingSRAM has focused on providing a wider range of gears and smaller jumps, with more flexibility to build a groupset to meet a widening band of requirements.Those three cassette options are:
  • 10-26
  • 10-28
  • 10-33
And the three chainset options are:
  • 50/37
  • 48/35
  • 46/33
I never said or implied that a 2x12 combination wasn't available. However, 12 cog cassette choices are less than ideal for gravel. A 10-33 cassette with the 46/33 crankset might not be low enough for some steep hills on gravel. Even with the Eagle AXS rear derailleur, a 10-50t Eagle cassette is not going to work with a double crankset due to chain wrap capacity.
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Old 02-10-19, 06:08 PM
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I'm waiting for a 12s 10-42 cassette to mate to a 42t chainring for the 1X holy grail of: Wireless, hydro, higher than 46X11, lower than 34X32, and less gaps in between gears. Sign me freaking up already!
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Old 02-10-19, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I never said or implied that a 2x12 combination wasn't available. However, 12 cog cassette choices are less than ideal for gravel. A 10-33 cassette with the 46/33 crankset might not be low enough for some steep hills on gravel. Even with the Eagle AXS rear derailleur, a 10-50t Eagle cassette is not going to work with a double crankset due to chain wrap capacity.

I'm wondering with the electronic integration, you probably could have the Eagle RD and a 10-50 work for 2x as long as the electronics prevented excessive cross-chaining. Not sure why you'd run 2x with that wide range of a cassette though. Thing is, I found that the Eagle uses a different 12sp chain than Red, so you'd need a special mullet-bike crankset also.


I disagree about the gearing on the 2x for gravel though. Look at Red etap, it offers 50/34 and 11-32 as the lowest gearset combo. But being as Red is the top-line race groupset, that's really more than enough gearing for most gravel racing. When I look at the at the gear on bikes winning Dirty Kanza and Barry Roubaix, the top racers don't always even seem to get down to a 1:1 gear. So, Red AXS offers a lower low gear than Red etap at 33/33 and 46/10 is slightly faster than 50/11 thus there's more range than before (even though I would like the chainrings to have a 16T difference rather than 13T). I know, that doesn't cover us mortals out there, but that's what Force is for and where the 11-36 and 11-42 cassettes currently live.


Hey, I can't afford a $4k groupset, so I'm in the "stay tuned" camp anyways.
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Old 02-10-19, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I'm waiting for a 12s 10-42 cassette to mate to a 42t chainring for the 1X holy grail of: Wireless, hydro, higher than 46X11, lower than 34X32, and less gaps in between gears. Sign me freaking up already!
​​​​​​...and a 10-42 could be paired to a 46/33 double crankset and a long arm Eagle rear derailleur for a incredible range.

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Old 02-10-19, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
​​​​​​...and a 10-42 could be paired to a 46/33 double crankset and a long arm rear derailleur for a incredible range.
Yes, but, I don't want incredible range. I want exactly what I typed and I hope it comes soon!
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Old 02-10-19, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Yes, but, I don't want incredible range. I want exactly what I typed and I hope it comes soon!
OK then!
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Old 02-10-19, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliper View Post
I'm wondering with the electronic integration, you probably could have the Eagle RD and a 10-50 work for 2x as long as the electronics prevented excessive cross-chaining. Not sure why you'd run 2x with that wide range of a cassette though. Thing is, I found that the Eagle uses a different 12sp chain than Red, so you'd need a special mullet-bike crankset also.


I disagree about the gearing on the 2x for gravel though. Look at Red etap, it offers 50/34 and 11-32 as the lowest gearset combo. But being as Red is the top-line race groupset, that's really more than enough gearing for most gravel racing. When I look at the at the gear on bikes winning Dirty Kanza and Barry Roubaix, the top racers don't always even seem to get down to a 1:1 gear. So, Red AXS offers a lower low gear than Red etap at 33/33 and 46/10 is slightly faster than 50/11 thus there's more range than before (even though I would like the chainrings to have a 16T difference rather than 13T). I know, that doesn't cover us mortals out there, but that's what Force is for and where the 11-36 and 11-42 cassettes currently live.


Hey, I can't afford a $4k groupset, so I'm in the "stay tuned" camp anyways.
Yes, I'm contented with a 46/33 compact crankset and 11-36 with 105 derailleurs on my gravel bike. Part of the preference for a 11-36 with a double is that the larger diameter 700x40 tires increases the rollout, making an 11-32 insufficient on steeper climbs. I don't like the wider spacing and smaller range that's inevitable with a 1x11 set-up. My only negative observation about using a 46/33 double is the redundant gear combinations. However, I can use either the 33 or 46 chaining from 10-20 mph and only end up shifting the front when going up or down steeper sections.

I also couldn't subject a $1500 derailleur and shifter group to gravel, so no eTap on a gravel bike until the price is below $1000 for the hydro shifters and the matching derailleurs.

I am running Red eTap on my Ridley Helium SLX road bike, It's a significant upgrade over mechanical systems.

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Old 02-10-19, 09:26 PM
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Bike by wire? Like the modern Airbus and Boeing passenger jets? I guess I’m still stuck in 2016
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Old 02-11-19, 12:21 AM
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I'm wondering why, with a 1x system, etap is so desirable. How hard can the shifting be? Like the 1x though.
I think for once I agree with Bob.

Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
High end bike owner's peer pressure when they gather in groups on these Rides, is A push, or a pull.?.
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Old 02-11-19, 12:26 PM
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The fact that etap never came to rival/force and di2 is yet to be here for 105 means that these companies are never going to bring electronic shifting to an affordable level. Shimano will go wireless di2 before it ever comes to 105.

Ohh and sram has lost their damn minds with the pricing of axs etap. $2k for a mountain shifter, rd, cassette, crank, and chain is absolutely insane.
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Old 02-11-19, 01:21 PM
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I don't know. The majority of people I ride with have electronic. Lots of people seem to be able to afford it. Just have to get creative, that's all.

A friend just picked up a new Tarmac with Dura Ace Di2, last year's leftover which he got super cheap.

Another has eTap which he got on a new bike at 30% discount through his cycling club which the LBS sponsors.

BF member @seattle forest purchased a Di2 Cervelo for $250 more than the mechanical version.


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Old 02-11-19, 01:28 PM
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Looks all wrong to me... put the cassette on the crank and put the small chainring on the rear wheel.......
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Old 02-11-19, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I don't know. The majority of people I ride with have electronic. Lots of people seem to be able to afford it. Just have to get creative, that's all.

A friend just picked up a new Tarmac with Dura Ace Di2, last year's leftover which he got super cheap.

Another has eTap which he got on a new bike at 30% discount through his cycling club which the LBS sponsors.

BF member @seattle forest purchased a Di2 Cervelo for $250 more than the mechanical version.


-Tim-
I assume these are all rim brake bikes? Rim electronic bikes are cheap everywhere as no one's buying them. Disc electronic on the other hand... Try finding an mtb with electonic shifting on deep closeout. Not happening. My LBS has a ton of rim brake di2 bikes on deep deep closeout but none with disc.
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Old 02-11-19, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
My LBS has a ton of rim brake di2 bikes on deep deep closeout but none with disc.
Oh yeah? URL?
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Old 02-11-19, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by softreset View Post
Oh yeah? URL?
Cannondale so local sale only unless you coming down to San Diego?
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Old 02-11-19, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
I assume these are all rim brake bikes? Rim electronic bikes are cheap everywhere as no one's buying them. Disc electronic on the other hand... Try finding an mtb with electonic shifting on deep closeout. Not happening. My LBS has a ton of rim brake di2 bikes on deep deep closeout but none with disc.
You might have a point here about rim vs disk. I hadn't thought about it.

Now that you mention it, no, there is a mix of disk and rim brakes on my usual group.

There is a Trek with eTap and direct mount rim brakes on Bontrager carbon wheels with the familiar brake pad whine.

Going from memory, all of the disk brakes in my usual group are Specialized. I don't think there is one disk bike which isn't Specialized.

I would not mind rim brakes, aluminum wheels and electronic shifting at all.

But yeah, your point is worthy of consideration.


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Old 02-11-19, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
​​​​​​...and a 10-42 could be paired to a 46/33 double crankset and a long arm Eagle rear derailleur for a incredible range.
Personally, if I were to take a super-wide-range cassette like that to 2x, I'd probably opt for half-step chainrings. Something like 44/41 or 48/45. Properly selected, it would give you 24 truly distinct gear ratios by splitting the gearing jumps in the cassette with the chainrings so you can make your big jumps in the back and then fine tune cadence on sustained efforts if need be.
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Old 02-12-19, 07:43 AM
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I just went through the whole Di2 vs. mechanical, and 1x vs. 2x decision. I had a few options including upgrading a lower end model with the Di2. I opted for a better spec'd bike without electronic shifting. I wound up with a Sram Force mechanical 1x set up.

The bike comes with a 40t chainring with a 10-42 cassette. I have ordered a 38t chainring and an e-thirteen 9-46 cassette. 511% range in the cassette with no big jumps. Everything is still on order as of right now but I will have a good climbing gear 38x46, and a fairly decent top end with the 9t cog. I rarely spin out while riding or descending so it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not a racer either.

My current plan is to upgrade to electronic shifting at some point. Sram 12spd or maybe Ultegra Di2 controls with the new XTR 12 spd derailer once the price comes down a bit. That will give me some flexibility if I decide the 1x set up isn't for me down the road.

I do think the price on the Sram is pretty crazy right now. The integrated power meter doesn't excite me either. The somewhat non-standard gearing on the road version has me scratching my head as well. Maybe they're onto something, but time will tell if it works for the masses.
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