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Carbon Topstone

Old 06-24-19, 07:25 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
I like to upgrade and tweak my bikes over time, and do all of my own work. Anything on a bike model that I would need the assistance of a shop for is a nonstarter for me.
Same here, which is why I ended up with the alloy Topstone. I understand that we’re in the minority of cyclists though.
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Old 06-24-19, 07:33 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Same here, which is why I ended up with the alloy Topstone. I understand that we’re in the minority of cyclists though.
Threaded BB!

Im drifting from bike to bike, hoping to purchase in early 2020.

I’m hoping the 2020 Norco Search XR Carbon has some better colors and groupsets. The Ultegra version for 2019 was a fugly cream color, and the only thing lower was 1x Apex. But yes, still BB86 press fit. At least I could swap cranks easily.
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Old 06-24-19, 02:32 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
I like to upgrade and tweak my bikes over time, and do all of my own work. Anything on a bike model that I would need the assistance of a shop for is a nonstarter for me.
If you do your own work you should have a bearing press for headsets that work just fine or you can make one for ~$10. Should also have a truing stand if you do all your own work so dishing a wheel is straighforward
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Old 06-24-19, 02:55 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
If you do your own work you should have a bearing press for headsets that work just fine or you can make one for ~$10. Should also have a truing stand if you do all your own work so dishing a wheel is straighforward
The cranks are non-standard, so you'd have to find a Cannondale shop and hope that they are still available years from now. The BB is an asymmetrical design that pushes the drive side out further. I'd be happier if it were just a BB86, and more confident that I could find parts that will work ten years from now.

Also, do you see the wheel dishing specs posted anywhere for this off-center dish? It's not something you can just Google. I know other bikes have featured a custom dish spec in the past, but it's juts a pain to deal with, especially as a bike ages and wheel sets are harder to come by.

It all juts makes the bike harder to work on long term. Maybe not a big deal for someone who has the shop do most of their work or who replaces a bike often, but I am likely to use a frame until it's not usable any more. I'm still riding bikes that are 32 and 17 years old that have been upgraded multiple times.
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Old 06-24-19, 03:10 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
The cranks are non-standard, so you'd have to find a Cannondale shop and hope that they are still available years from now. The BB is an asymmetrical design that pushes the drive side out further. I'd be happier if it were just a BB86, and more confident that I could find parts that will work ten years from now.

Also, do you see the wheel dishing specs posted anywhere for this off-center dish? It's not something you can just Google. I know other bikes have featured a custom dish spec in the past, but it's juts a pain to deal with, especially as a bike ages and wheel sets are harder to come by.

It all juts makes the bike harder to work on long term. Maybe not a big deal for someone who has the shop do most of their work or who replaces a bike often, but I am likely to use a frame until it's not usable any more. I'm still riding bikes that are 32 and 17 years old that have been upgraded multiple times.
The BB is just two bearings pressed into a shell. Cannondale uses the same crank arms just uses different interchangeable axles and/or spacers to get the right offset. Wheel dish is easy, you don't need to know the spec. You can measure or just use the truing stand with the OEM wheel to figure it out if its actually offset.
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Old 06-24-19, 04:04 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
The BB is just two bearings pressed into a shell. Cannondale uses the same crank arms just uses different interchangeable axles and/or spacers to get the right offset. Wheel dish is easy, you don't need to know the spec. You can measure or just use the truing stand with the OEM wheel to figure it out if its actually offset.
Sounds like you will love working on this bike. Enjoy.

Here's the first place that I saw the discussion of the crankset and wheel dish. It's a somewhat ingenious solution to the tire clearance issue, but over-engineered and more than I personally want to deal with for a long term bike ownership.

https://bikerumor.com/2019/06/20/can...ar-suspension/

"Proprietary Bottom Bracket

It also uses the Cannondale-specific BB30-83 AI which requires a specific crankset and a specific dish for the rear wheel (Cannondale offers three compatible cranksets, SRAM offers an option, and there are replacement spindle options as well). This bottom bracket design has been in use by Cannondale since 2014 and has been used on the Scalpel, F-Si, SuperX, and now the Topstone Carbon as it allows them to build a frame with super short chainstays while maintaining room for big tires and front derailleurs. Essentially, the bottom bracket uses a BB30 bottom bracket that is spaced at 83mm while the drivetrain gets moved out by 6mm. Thanks to the additional clearance provided, the Topstone actually has shorter chainstays than the SuperX by 4mm."
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Old 06-24-19, 04:12 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
Sounds like you will love working on this bike. Enjoy.

Here's the first place that I saw the discussion of the crankset and wheel dish. It's a somewhat ingenious solution to the tire clearance issue, but over-engineered and more than I personally want to deal with for a long term bike ownership.

https://bikerumor.com/2019/06/20/can...ar-suspension/

"Proprietary Bottom Bracket

It also uses the Cannondale-specific BB30-83 AI which requires a specific crankset and a specific dish for the rear wheel (Cannondale offers three compatible cranksets, SRAM offers an option, and there are replacement spindle options as well). This bottom bracket design has been in use by Cannondale since 2014 and has been used on the Scalpel, F-Si, SuperX, and now the Topstone Carbon as it allows them to build a frame with super short chainstays while maintaining room for big tires and front derailleurs. Essentially, the bottom bracket uses a BB30 bottom bracket that is spaced at 83mm while the drivetrain gets moved out by 6mm. Thanks to the additional clearance provided, the Topstone actually has shorter chainstays than the SuperX by 4mm."
No, but I do like working on bikes in general and do my own maintenence on 6+ bikes all with various "standards". Replacing bearings on a BB30, BB30 Ai or PF30 etc are all the same technique. Building wheels, tensioning and truing all involve checking and adjusting dish whether is assymetric or not.
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Old 06-24-19, 04:40 PM
  #58  
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Some people say re-dishing for Ai is as simple as loosening the drive side spokes 2 turns while tightening the non-drive side 2 turns.
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Old 07-01-19, 09:08 PM
  #59  
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Not sure if it has been mentioned yet. Sorry if it has.

RidingGravel.com has a review of the bike which they have ridden for a few weeks. It is an interesting machine.

The fork is different from the aluminum version and the fame has a 30 mm travel "suspension" built in.

The dropped seatstays have a pivot where they intersect with the seat tube, which frees them to flex upward more than without a pivot. When combined with strategic flex zones in the seat tube, top tube and rear triangle, the “Kingpin” suspension system provides up to 30mm of travel. That said, it’s not the same travel as you’d normally associate with a suspension bike.

The frame is basically a series of tuned leaf springs. Cannondale designed it so there’s more travel available at the saddle than at the rear axle. There’s no damper, no lockout, and no moving parts, aside from the pivot, which sees about 6-degrees of rotation at most, according to Cannondale.
http://ridinggravel.com/gravel-bikes...tting-rolling/


-Tim-
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Old 07-18-19, 08:37 AM
  #60  
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First post. Upgraded my 2019 105 Topstone to a carbon ultegra rx yesterday. Noticed today the carbon headset spacers and stem cap look discoloured. Sort of a grey stain. Cannot post images yet. LBS guys said that is the weave but I have not noticed this on other bikes they stock including the new cannondale supersix evo. No other topstones in store to check. Is this normal.

ibb.co/74g4cD9
ibb.co/VSVtPyH

Thanks
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Old 07-18-19, 09:09 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by HankSc0rpi0 View Post
First post. Upgraded my 2019 105 Topstone to a carbon ultegra rx yesterday. Noticed today the carbon headset spacers and stem cap look discoloured. Sort of a grey stain. Cannot post images yet. LBS guys said that is the weave but I have not noticed this on other bikes they stock including the new cannondale supersix evo. No other topstones in store to check. Is this normal.

ibb.co/74g4cD9
ibb.co/VSVtPyH

Thanks
I don't see anything out of the ordinary, looks like a normal carbon weave to me.
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Old 07-18-19, 09:47 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I don't see anything out of the ordinary, looks like a normal carbon weave to me.
Thanks. New to carbon. What threw me was other more expensive bikes seemed to have a chequered pattern on their spacers. Specifically Look and Cervello.

Currently injured so only done a very short ride. Bike “feels” faster then the aluminium one and no issue with my 105KG soon to be 80KG. It is above all comfortable. The clutch I assume is only needed on crap roads. The speed sensor on the wheel feels like it does not add much. It collects data for speed, distance and calories once you enter weight on the cannondale smartphone app. It synchs with garmin connect. The firmware on the sensor fails to update over bluetooth, keeps disconnecting which ironically what fix is for. I will try over garmin ant+ headunit later. Do not expect to ride it until Saturday. Can’t wait.

Thinking of getting a king cage iris as I like how it looks. Worth it over cheap plastic Elite ?
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Old 07-18-19, 09:52 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by HankSc0rpi0 View Post
Thanks. New to carbon. What threw me was other more expensive bikes seemed to have a chequered pattern on their spacers. Specifically Look and Cervello.

Currently injured so only done a very short ride. Bike “feels” faster then the aluminium one and no issue with my 105KG soon to be 80KG. It is above all comfortable. The clutch I assume is only needed on crap roads. The speed sensor on the wheel feels like it does not add much. It collects data for speed, distance and calories once you enter weight on the cannondale smartphone app. It synchs with garmin connect. The firmware on the sensor fails to update over bluetooth, keeps disconnecting which ironically what fix is for. I will try over garmin ant+ headunit later. Do not expect to ride it until Saturday. Can’t wait.

Thinking of getting a king cage iris as I like how it looks. Worth it over cheap plastic Elite ?
Good initial thoughts, thanks. Yes metal cages are worth it for gravel.

As for the carbon - there are different ways of finishing a layup that will change how the finished product looks. That "checkered" layup you mentioned is some version a "K" style layup. Look up 3K, 6K, 12K etc. And there is unidirectional that has no "checker" to it. So, there's nothing wrong with yours, it's just how the carbon was finished, purely aesthetics.
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Old 07-18-19, 12:50 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Good initial thoughts, thanks. Yes metal cages are worth it for gravel.


As for the carbon - there are different ways of finishing a layup that will change how the finished product looks. That "checkered" layup you mentioned is some version a "K" style layup. Look up 3K, 6K, 12K etc. And there is unidirectional that has no "checker" to it. So, there's nothing wrong with yours, it's just how the carbon was finished, purely aesthetics.

Thanks for the info. Had thought about those "K" layup spacers for a neater look but then the headset headcap or whatever it's called would also need to be replaced. Another thought I had was on the speed releases. Only removed front wheel so far but it's 4 and bit turns with the 6mm hex key and you have to pull the axel for wheel to drop out. Would much prefer handles and not have to use a 6mm. Also it's marked 11nm max but snugging up with a multitool as you would out on the road and then a short quarter turn seems to be good enough. It was at about 10nm when I checked later with a torque wrench.


Other thoughts - after collecting from shop, the front disc was rubbing 100% against the calipers. Got rid of 80% by loosening the calipers, squeezing the front brake (right lever in Ireland it seems), and re-tightening. The rest was due to the mechanic over tightening the axle. No rubbing now, though it's the nature of new discs/pads as tolerances are so tight.


Only thing I added to the bike was a pair of ultegra r8000 road pedals. Much prefer road pedals to mtb spd and road is where I will be 60% of the time trying to lose weight. Also got the LBS to double wrap some Fabric knurl tape over the stock Cannondale. I get arm/hand pain so this helps a lot. Hopefully when core gets stronger won't be putting so much weight on the bars. Still have to get lights, cages sorted.


Had considered replacing the stock 105 rt70 centre lock rotors with some nice ultegra rt800's but don't think the 90 euro is worth it for aesthetics and a few grams. LBS say the Shimano chain is pants and will break before it wears out. Happen to have a bling KMC EL gold chain that will go on when it breaks or wears out. LBS say to leave the factory wax on the chain as long as possible as better than anything I will put on but I gave the sides a wipe down with a rag anyway as very very sticky.


One question. I only have 135mm clearance on the save seatpost after my fit and I have read you must have 148mm. Cannondalespares even say the seatpost is not compatible with your bike unless you have at least 148mm free. I assume this isn't really true and just means to get the maximum compliance and flex that 148mm is optimal. I would have thought less seatpost exposed is safer.


Thanks

Last edited by HankSc0rpi0; 07-18-19 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 07-18-19, 12:55 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by HankSc0rpi0 View Post
The rest was due to the mechanic over tightening the axle.

LBS say the Shimano chain is pants and will break before it wears out.
Sounds like you need a new shop because both of those things are ridiculous.
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Old 07-18-19, 02:26 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Sounds like you need a new shop because both of those things are ridiculous.
Nah the mechanic is a bit agricultural, very moody and generally customers hate him. The owner is different, a big KMC fan, swears Shimano hubs have crap seals and their chains are pants, loves Enve everything and is a big Canyon hater (understandably as he loses business to them). They are all big cycling enthusiasts though and they have a nice little leisure club and all of them race.

The fact is though if you tighten the front axle a little tighter than usual the disc will rub very slightly when the pads are new as tolerances are so tight between the pads and discs when new. My last topstone was exactly the same or I just have superhearing and it's the same with this one. Just an observation.

Gravel not really taken off in Ireland yet. We don't have many gravel roads per say, no fireroads even. Just the odd badly maintained b-road with potholes for bonus points and plenty of dirt track roads and if you look for shortcuts you will find back roads that suit gravel bikes. But tarmac (smooth and rough) makes up 80-90% roads here unless you go out of your way.

Thinking about those King Cage Iris cages. Really look nice and I think perhaps Cannondale were promoting them last year on the Topstone. Have read mostly positive reviews but also the odd negative comment about podium bottles not sitting properly in them.

Last edited by HankSc0rpi0; 07-18-19 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 07-18-19, 03:10 PM
  #67  
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Picked up a Carbon Topstone Ultegra RX yesterday, fitted it best I could, and took it for a ride this morning. 35 km across tarmac, loose gravel, graded gravel road, double track, and a short section of single track at over 20% uphill. Since I have never owned a gravel bike, but have ridden my road bike on gravel roads, I have no comparison basis for how this bike handles. Comfortable enough with what I consider big tires at 37mm, and running 40 psi back, 30psi front. The handlebars have very short reach, about 55mm compared to 75 mm on my compact Ritchey road bars. This puts the brifters too close when the tops are at my preferred distance from the seat. I'll try it like that for a while before going to a longer stem, which will put the tops further away. 20 lbs 0 oz. (9.07 kg) ready to ride as shown in size small.

Last edited by ingo; 07-18-19 at 03:41 PM. Reason: That should be 37mm tires!
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Old 07-18-19, 03:24 PM
  #68  
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Nice. So did you swap out the stock 37mm 700c riddlers for 47mm gravel kings ? Presumably 650 wheels too ?

How are you finding the king pin suspension? I have not ridden mine properly to judge so far.
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Old 07-21-19, 10:07 AM
  #69  
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Looking at the build outs I have a hard time seeing the Ultegra being $1,500 better than the 105 and the top of the line being $4k better.

That said I haven't ridden any of them so who am I to judge?

Yes I still want one even if the colors are uninspiring the rest of the kit has me...intrigued.
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Old 07-21-19, 01:14 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by HankSc0rpi0 View Post
Nah the mechanic is a bit agricultural, very moody and generally customers hate him. The owner is different, a big KMC fan, swears Shimano hubs have crap seals and their chains are pants, loves Enve everything and is a big Canyon hater (understandably as he loses business to them). They are all big cycling enthusiasts though and they have a nice little leisure club and all of them race.

The fact is though if you tighten the front axle a little tighter than usual the disc will rub very slightly when the pads are new as tolerances are so tight between the pads and discs when new. My last topstone was exactly the same or I just have superhearing and it's the same with this one. Just an observation.

Gravel not really taken off in Ireland yet. We don't have many gravel roads per say, no fireroads even. Just the odd badly maintained b-road with potholes for bonus points and plenty of dirt track roads and if you look for shortcuts you will find back roads that suit gravel bikes. But tarmac (smooth and rough) makes up 80-90% roads here unless you go out of your way.

Thinking about those King Cage Iris cages. Really look nice and I think perhaps Cannondale were promoting them last year on the Topstone. Have read mostly positive reviews but also the odd negative comment about podium bottles not sitting properly in them.
1. The notion that there is something wrong with Shimano chains, especially that they are prone to breaking, is just nonsense.

2. The torque spec for thru axles is very high – usually 15Nm. Please make sure you didn't UNDERtighten what the mechanic had done properly. I've seen people back off the tightness of a thru axle to fix a rubbing rotor, only to have the axle itself come loose. Get the torque spec correct, and then re-center the caliper on the rotor.

3. I've got half a dozen hydraulic brake bikes, and the "tolerance" for the gap between rotor and pad is no different when the pads are new than when they are worn. The nature of hydraulic calipers is that they auto-adjust to keep the same gap. So if it's rubbing to start, then the caliper is not centered properly on the rotor (see 2).
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Old 07-21-19, 01:26 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
1. The notion that there is something wrong with Shimano chains, especially that they are prone to breaking, is just nonsense.

2. The torque spec for thru axles is very high – usually 15Nm. Please make sure you didn't UNDERtighten what the mechanic had done properly. I've seen people back off the tightness of a thru axle to fix a rubbing rotor, only to have the axle itself come loose. Get the torque spec correct, and then re-center the caliper on the rotor.

3. I've got half a dozen hydraulic brake bikes, and the "tolerance" for the gap between rotor and pad is no different when the pads are new than when they are worn. The nature of hydraulic calipers is that they auto-adjust to keep the same gap. So if it's rubbing to start, then the caliper is not centered properly on the rotor (see 2).
The guy based his opinion on Shimano chains on customer experiences I guess and rates KMC higher. I am just glad I don’t have a crap chain. The torque spec is 11nm max. It is written on the outside. The mechanic had it slightly too tight and easing off slightly and recentering (loosening caliper, retightening etc..) cured the rub. I checked the spec later. Of course the rub was minor but was something my last Topstone would do too until the pads wore in. On the new bike the callipers did not adjust immediately as the left was a little sticky.

Last edited by HankSc0rpi0; 07-21-19 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 07-21-19, 02:14 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by HankSc0rpi0 View Post
The torque spec is 11nm max. It is written on the outside. The mechanic had it slightly too tight and easing off slightly and recentering (loosening caliper, retightening etc..) cured the rub. The callipers did not adjust immediately as the left was a little sticky.
Ah, that's interesting. I've got two different thru-axle bikes, and both have 15Nm specs. I think 11Nm is quite low for a thru axle, which is probably why the mechanic overtightened it. Of course, if it was stamped on the outside, that's still totally his mistake! And yes, once he's centered the caliper on an improperly torqued thru axle, the only answer is to fix it all: tighten the axle to the proper torque, lossen the caliper, then re-tighten. And it sounds like that's just what you've done!

As for the sticky caliper, I find when you are recentering the rotor its worth FIRST going ahead and removing the brake pads and carefully, slowly, and with a plastic tire lever, pushing both the pistons back to their zero position. That way when you recenter the caliper you are more likely to have the pistons balanced.
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Old 07-21-19, 02:48 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
Ah, that's interesting. I've got two different thru-axle bikes, and both have 15Nm specs. I think 11Nm is quite low for a thru axle, which is probably why the mechanic overtightened it. Of course, if it was stamped on the outside, that's still totally his mistake! And yes, once he's centered the caliper on an improperly torqued thru axle, the only answer is to fix it all: tighten the axle to the proper torque, lossen the caliper, then re-tighten. And it sounds like that's just what you've done!

As for the sticky caliper, I find when you are recentering the rotor its worth FIRST going ahead and removing the brake pads and carefully, slowly, and with a plastic tire lever, pushing both the pistons back to their zero position. That way when you recenter the caliper you are more likely to have the pistons balanced.
Cheers. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 08-11-19, 05:58 PM
  #74  
blargman
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I'm 6'4" and I believe about a 86cm inseam. I just started riding this bike and it feels like I just can't get comfortable on it for rides over 10miles. Either my neck starts hurting or my hands. I had it fit, Should I just take it back and get it fit again? Is this a no brainer? I'm asking these questions as I'm curious what others have found on this bike. If there are any other topstone users that use the bike and can relate to the size of this bike. Does it run a bit large?
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Old 08-11-19, 08:23 PM
  #75  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by blargman View Post
I'm 6'4" and I believe about a 86cm inseam. I just started riding this bike and it feels like I just can't get comfortable on it for rides over 10miles. Either my neck starts hurting or my hands. I had it fit, Should I just take it back and get it fit again? Is this a no brainer? I'm asking these questions as I'm curious what others have found on this bike. If there are any other topstone users that use the bike and can relate to the size of this bike. Does it run a bit large?
I assume you have the largest size(based on your height), but if it's a smaller size, that could be part or all of your size issues.
I don't think it runs large in the largest size for your height. I am 6'5 and a local shop had the largest size in stock- it was a good fit, but not quite the stack height or reach I wanted.

I would assume your cycling inseam is more than what you list, if you are 6'4. If that is your cycling inseam, then perhaps the bike is wonky for you as you have short legs and a long torso for that height.
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