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Canyon Endurace 7.0 vs Grail 7.0

Old 06-29-19, 05:03 PM
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Junkbeast
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Canyon Endurace 7.0 vs Grail 7.0

After researching more expensive bikes, I'm leaning more towards lower priced models for now and getting a dream bike a little later (like a Flaanimal). Right now my short list is kind of between the Canyon Endurace and Grail (both aluminum).

Right now I ride anywhere from 0-20% dirt/gravel roads on an average daily rides of 20-30 miles total). On my longer routes of 40-60 miles I don't really stray from pavement. If I had a different bike I might seek out more dirt/gravel and start to like it more. Right now with my 35mm Xplor USHs I feel okay when it's fairly dry and I don't get too near the soft shoulder. Gravel roads around here can still have a lot of potholes and washboard so I think I need a bike more stable and suited to that terrain. However, my gut says that even with a bike more suited to gravel I'd still be on the road more than half the time.

This is why I started considering a more endurance based bike for comfort during long road rides but with some capability on gravel. The Endurace feels like a no-brainer based on my needs but they say I can only get 33mm tires in there and I hate to limit myself too much if I want/need more. I'm a heavy rider: 6'-2"/230 lbs. down from 256 on 04/01 and I estimate I could lose another 25-30 by October when I usually quit riding for the year. Alas, I gain a lot back every winter due to inactivity and too much craft beer.

Anyway, I need wider tires for weight and terrain and 33mm seems like it'd be ok but then I'm stuck if I decide I want a wider set. Therefore the Grail seems like the more utilitarian choice. However, the consensus is the Grail is more aggressive and the riding positions aren't as comfortable for long road treks. I suppose some of that can be fixed with headset spacers right?

My gut says to keep exploring the Endurace over the Grail at this time but I'm too on the fence and looking for something to help me sway one way or the other. Also, the green Grail with tan sidewalls looks awesome!

Any thoughts?
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Old 07-02-19, 08:22 AM
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My solution is to get the Grail. It is an endurance bike, but can take 40mm tires. The grail is very relaxed compared to the Canyon Gravel bike I have. Yes, with the aluminum bike you can make it a little more relaxed by changing the stem/spacers (not so much on the Carbon version).

I road around on a bike that could take 33mm tires, and eventually bought a different bike because I wanted 40mm. You can always go down in size, but you can't put bigger than the frame will take. I don't want you to to limit myself too much if I want/need more.

Yep, around here in the summer, our gravel is smoother than our asphalt. Bigger tires are nice, especially for someone your size. Get the Grail.

Or, you could do what I do, wait for the beginning of the billing period on your card, buy both bikes - test them out, and send the one you don't want back to Canyon. Costs you nothing but the time to rebox the thing (which is not unsubstantial).
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Old 07-02-19, 12:48 PM
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Thanks. Yeah, I've been kind of leaning toward the Grail more and more. Even if I don't start riding a lot more gravel right away I want the option available and I want wide enough tires on. With all this extra rain we've had lately a lot of my routes have quite a bit of standing water over the road, forcing me to detour on dirt roads. Being less experienced on those roads I don't push as hard as on pavement but I don't think I'd really even try it with less than the 35mm tires I'm using now so the Grail will support them easily. Also it seems the level of components included for the price is really good on Canyon in general. I just wish the wheels had 28 spokes instead of 24.

As far as their return policy and trying both bikes...can you even ride the thing and still return without penalty, or is like sit on it in your house on a trainer or something? I probably wouldn't order both of them like that but in case one had to...
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Old 07-03-19, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkbeast View Post
As far as their return policy and trying both bikes...can you even ride the thing and still return without penalty, or is like sit on it in your house on a trainer or something? I probably wouldn't order both of them like that but in case one had to...
Sit in your house, lol.

Seriously, it has to be in "saleable as new" condition. So, I treated the bike like I would on a test ride at the LBS. Nothing long, no dirt, but maybe 2-4 miles to feel it out.

They need a "garage sale" like REI does...
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Old 07-11-19, 06:49 PM
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Keep us updated.

Iím kind of looking for a new bike and a Canyon is high on the list. Grail vs Endurance vs Aeroad! I need to decide my main reason for a new bike.
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Old 07-12-19, 07:47 AM
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or 13lb Ultimate CF Evo Disk! lo.
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Old 07-12-19, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspenator View Post
Keep us updated.

Iím kind of looking for a new bike and a Canyon is high on the list. Grail vs Endurance vs Aeroad! I need to decide my main reason for a new bike.
I got myself psyched up and tried to order an aluminum Grail last week but they were out of stock in my size. Supposed to get an email if/when they get more near the end of the month. Will I still pull the trigger after 2 weeks of sleeping on it? Hard to say. I feel like new ones should be out soon and the 2019 should have a little discount. Maybe they'll cheap out on a component for 2020 and charge the same or more...maybe the color will suck...my CDO is acting up.
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Old 07-14-19, 12:47 PM
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Just went to the site and some bikes are on sale and there's free shipping until the end of the month. The Endurace AL 7.0 and CF 7.0 are each $200 off, $1.6K and $2.0K respectively; the Grail AL 7.0 is still $1.8K and no in stock. I'm tempted to order the red carbon Endurace and settle for 33mm max tires.

EDIT: How about the difference between the Mavic Aksium Elite UST wheels versus DT Swiss C 1800 Spline wheels? I know they are designed for a bit different use, and other than the ability for different size tires, which of these wheelsets are better in general? I feel like the DT Swiss are just better wheels from anecdotal experience. I'm unlikely to upgrade wheels anytime soon, tires are more likely.

Last edited by Junkbeast; 07-14-19 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 07-15-19, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkbeast View Post
Just went to the site and some bikes are on sale and there's free shipping until the end of the month. The Endurace AL 7.0 and CF 7.0 are each $200 off, $1.6K and $2.0K respectively; the Grail AL 7.0 is still $1.8K and no in stock. I'm tempted to order the red carbon Endurace and settle for 33mm max tires.
I think thatís a really good call. I can also add that especially for riding in the dry (i.e. anything other than mud), you can easily fit larger tires on the Endurace. Iím currently running tires that measure 33.5mm, and Iíve got lots and lots of clearance. 35mm (measured width) would fit and still leave some clearance.

EDIT: How about the difference between the Mavic Aksium Elite UST wheels versus DT Swiss C 1800 Spline wheels? I know they are designed for a bit different use, and other than the ability for different size tires, which of these wheelsets are better in general? I feel like the DT Swiss are just better wheels from anecdotal experience. I'm unlikely to upgrade wheels anytime soon, tires are more likely.
Personally, I donít think there is much comparison: the DT Swiss is a superior wheel. And itís quite a bit lighter. Also, thereís very little or no difference between the two in terms of the size of tires they can run. (You donít need super wide rims to run wide tires.)
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Old 08-06-19, 03:13 PM
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So I was really torn but decided to wait for the Grail I wanted to get back in stock. First it was July 28, then August 5, then August 12. I checked on the 5th and it said out of stock which is their language for it never coming back for the season. There are a couple silver ones but I wanted the green. If canyon would have not put that lie about them "coming soon" with dates I would have bought one of the Endurace models that were on sale in July. Well I guess they get nothing now and I'll keep searching.
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Old 08-06-19, 03:17 PM
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Canyon USA is horrible when it comes to stock. I would call them and see if they give you the sale price on the endurance since they have been stringing you along with the grail.
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Old 08-06-19, 03:43 PM
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I could try. I did email before the end of the sale (and free shipping for ALL bikes) and asked if I placed the order for the Grail before 07/31 (when free shipping promotion ended) if it would still apply on 08/05 when it was going to be in stock but they said no.
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Old 08-06-19, 08:16 PM
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Wow, it's like they don't want your money.
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Old 08-07-19, 08:41 AM
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I agree, the aluminum Grail looks like a nice bike. Perhaps consider the aluminum Cannondale Topstone for a similar price? I think you can get them at REI if you don't have a LBS nearby that sells Cannondale.

Or get the 2020 Trek Domane SL4 with Tiagra. Takes 38's with room for mud clearance.

Or the SL5 with 105, if you can swing it. Get's you full hydraulic 105.
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Old 11-10-19, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
My solution is to get the Grail. It is an endurance bike, but can take 40mm tires. The grail is very relaxed compared to the Canyon Gravel bike I have. Yes, with the aluminum bike you can make it a little more relaxed by changing the stem/spacers (not so much on the Carbon version).

I road around on a bike that could take 33mm tires, and eventually bought a different bike because I wanted 40mm. You can always go down in size, but you can't put bigger than the frame will take. I don't want you to to limit myself too much if I want/need more.

Yep, around here in the summer, our gravel is smoother than our asphalt. Bigger tires are nice, especially for someone your size. Get the Grail.

Or, you could do what I do, wait for the beginning of the billing period on your card, buy both bikes - test them out, and send the one you don't want back to Canyon. Costs you nothing but the time to rebox the thing (which is not unsubstantial).

How much "measurably" slower would be the grail, especially climbing?? Not due to extra 1 lb or geometry but because of the gravel tires (I know you said we can always swap them out). The Specialized Diverge Comp comes with a gravel tire, which has a smooth line with heavier treads only on the side. That's not the case with Grail, which is heavily treaded, grippy, besides being 5mm wider.
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Old 11-11-19, 03:27 AM
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I got the aluminum Grail and thought I might swap out the tires but never did. I did around 550 miles in the first month I had it and it was a lot better than my Trek FX. I was about 4-5 mph faster through a given section of my normal routes and 2-3 mph faster overall across an entire route. The 40mm Schwalbes are doing fine for me. Maybe it's just the bike is many pounds lighter helps.
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Old 11-11-19, 02:00 PM
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Congrats! If you're spending any appreciable time on gravel, you definitely made the right choice. Tire size is huge when it comes to gravel (see what I did there?), and a gravel bike makes a perfectly good road bike.

Those Schwalbes are good all around tires. Wear those out and then see if those still fit the way you ride.
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Old 11-12-19, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaplin8 View Post
How much "measurably" slower would be the grail, especially climbing?? Not due to extra 1 lb or geometry but because of the gravel tires (I know you said we can always swap them out). The Specialized Diverge Comp comes with a gravel tire, which has a smooth line with heavier treads only on the side. That's not the case with Grail, which is heavily treaded, grippy, besides being 5mm wider.
For me, its about 1-2mph - maybe 10%. Almost trivial if I'm on my own - can be a big deal if I'm on a group ride that doesn't care if they drop someone. Comparing Conti GP5000 32mm to 40mm G-One or similar. I'll say that Conti's 32mm gatorskin or 4-season is about the same as a good Gravel tire.

Climbing - well the difference is mostly rolling resistance which is proportional to speed - so I guess it depends on how fast I am climbing - and a bit for the extra rotational mass.
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Old 11-16-19, 01:00 AM
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@chas58

Thanks. Since Grail has endurance geometry, it could be better alternative to Endurace (28mm tires, max 32mm) - though Endurace Carbon colors are better. Grail colours are very dull. Specialized Diverge Comp E5 at $300 more (not Tubeless) seems close alternative, for maintained dirt/gravel and dominantly tarmac. Comes with 35mm, light treaded tires with smoother middle section. It is 1 lb heavier than Grail Al (I wish Grail carbon did not have the unorthodox uncool hover bar). The Diverge has a Feature Shock at the fork to make it comfortable, and comes in vibrant colors, but Grail might save you $300, and thereby an option to own an extra set of wheels partially paid for (say slick 30mm for tarmac and dirt 1.0). I am not sure how good Trek Domane isospeed shock absorption is (endurace bike but has upto 35mm tire clearance)... both Trek domane and Trek Checkpoint are 1-2 lbs heavier than Canyon, and notch pricier than Specialized.

You may be right that Grail does not feel bogged down because its lighter than its peers - particularly may be Trek FX which @Junkbeast mentioned.

Also, I never thought of rolling resistance to be proportional to speed. But overall, I read somewhere, that rolling resistance is <10% resistance. Wind resistance is dominant factor at slightly higher speeds.


As on 11/15/2019, Trek Grail AL7 has been taken off the US website. Not sure if its out of stock or they are waiting for 2020 models. Hoping for better colours and no hover bar on carbon.

Last edited by Chaplin8; 11-16-19 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Add
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