b0rderline

Geometry wise this is a very interesting frameset but when you compare it's price with for example fairlight secan frameset you start to wonder if almost half of the price means also half of the quality? Do we have here a long term users of cotic escapade who can tell how well it is holding up over time?

mstateglfr 

That’s a really cool frameset that I hadn’t seen before. The purple is nice! And a fastback seatstay design is rare these days.
Owning a Secan, here are some differences between the two that I see. Perhaps they matter to you, or maybe they don’t. I don’t think any of the differences are ‘better’ either way.

- The Secan lists the tubing they use along with the butting and diameters. I geek on this stuff, so I appreciate the details. I also view it as they arent hiding anything. The Secan frame uses a high quality tubing for the main triangle, but they also list the butting and are upfront with frameset weights, so I wasn’t surprised when the frame wasn’t super-lightweight.
Compare that to the Cotic which just lists that its an oval top tube cromoly frame. I would want to know general butting details because for example- 1/7/1 tubing is much different in weight AND ride feel than 8/5/8.
Tubing could be where some of the difference in cost can be explained, but more details would need to be known on the Cotic.

- The Secan is a thru axle rear wheel and the Cotic is QR in the rear. That is a place where some of the difference in cost can be explained.

- The Secan can handle 47mm tires and the Cotic can handle 42mm tires. This may or may not matter, but its worth mentioning.

- The Secan is made in Europe(somewhere, not sure where) and the Cotic is made in Taiwan. I mention this only because it could be a place where some of the difference in costs can be explained. It is not a comment on quality at all. Based on pictures, the Cotic frames look well built and finished.

- The Secan comes with a full carbon fork, which is also available on the Cotic for 200pounds more. When comparing framesets with full carbon, the Secan is 999pounds and the Cotic is 799pounds.
My Secan frameset cost $1222 delivered. The Cotic with carbon steerer would cost $993 delivered. That is a $229 difference. But if I bought the Secan right now, it would cost about $1280 due to current exchange rate. So really, the current difference in cost is about $290.

- The Cotic website is not user friendly. And the order sheet is all wonky as it claims a steel fork is the default, then it doenst adjust the price when you select a carbon steerer fork, even though that is mentioned as costing more. The default option- a carbon fork with aluminum steerer isn’t even listed as an option.
This is something in common with Fairlight as that website is all sorts of difficult to navigate mainly due to the Secan default page being a pre-order(vs the other frames offered being pages about the frame), and the ‘lookbook’ which is a slow way to look up details due to slow loading and so many pages. They improved it a bit with a quick access pic to geometry, but it isn’t impressive still.



I dont think half the cost means half the price, but I also dont think the Cotic is almost half the price. Its a really neat option to consider, regardless.

b0rderline

Thank you very much for this! Very helpful. What would you choose now if you had not already bought secan?

mstateglfr 

My plan had been to spend this winter building a frame. It would have been a lugged steel with a 7 degree sloping top tube. 72degree head and seat tube angles. 65cm of stack, 415mm of reach, 70mm of bottom bracket drop. So had I not purchased the Secan, that would still be the plan.

But this is because I wanted something pretty specific in a size that just isnt offered by many brands. I heavily considered a Gunnar Hyper X too.

If I needed a smaller frame, one thats in commonly available geometry, I would have heavily considered the Black Mountain MCD(and buy an aftermarket Whiskey fork), Otso Warrakin, Fairdale Rocketship, Jamis Renegade, Kona Rove LTD and All City Cosmic Stallion frames. The Cotic frame would for sure be considered too as i like the purple and its priced alongside the Jamis Renegade as the lowest of the group- I would just email some questions to the company first.
For what its worth, I would ultimately email each of the brands with some questions to see what they are willing to reveal beyond whats listed on their websites(butting details and frame weight for my size). I am curious and pushy like that though. Thru past experience, Mike Varley at Black Mountain is really receptive to questions, Otso responded with details(I emailed them last winter), and Fairdale wouldnt even acknowledge a couple questions I asked them. Frames arent magic and there is nothing actually proprietary with any of the bikes- so hiding details makes me question why. If a brand doesnt known the details, thats concerning to me because I think that should be standard info to know. If a brand isnt willing to discuss their 'unique' steel and the details that make it unique, then its all just marketing and I become hesitant to believe much of anything I read from them.

Again though, I am jaded and curious- it isnt a great combination to be as a consumer!

b0rderline

tough sell for all of those companies you have mentioned above.
But I am curious what do you think about stayer chigzag frameset?

gus6464

Cotic should be releasing a new Escapade at the end of the year with thru-axle. The current version of it has too many compromises with the main being the rear QR axle while the fork is TA.

Cotic as a whole makes some of the best steel MTB frames. The solaris is a fantastic frame with a killer price for a Reynolds 853 frame. There are lots of steel frame makers in the UK with high quality stuff. Steel frames as a whole are super popular in EU.