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No Quick Release Wheel in Salsa Vaya

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No Quick Release Wheel in Salsa Vaya

Old 10-11-19, 06:39 PM
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Love_Bikes
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No Quick Release Wheel in Salsa Vaya

I just noticed no Quick Release Wheel in front of Salsa Vaya 2019. The back has the Quick release lever. Any idea why this common feature was not provided? Thanks

Last edited by Love_Bikes; 10-11-19 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 10-11-19, 07:48 PM
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Thru axle?
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Old 10-11-19, 08:35 PM
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From the 2019 Vaya build kit


https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya/2019_vaya_105

I think all the carbon forks on the Vaya were thru axle, while the steel forks (no longer offered) were QR.

Last edited by katsup; 10-11-19 at 10:46 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-12-19, 12:18 AM
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Thru axles are supposedly better at handling the braking forces that come with disc brakes, especially in the front. While highly unlikely, it is possible for these forces to cause a quick release wheel to come undone. I don’t know why Salsa didn’t just go with thru axles on both front and rear on the Vaya.
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Old 10-12-19, 01:04 PM
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Ok I now understand and thanks
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Old 10-12-19, 06:12 PM
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You are fortunate they stepped up to at least a front thru axle. QRs and disc brakes are an unhappy match, especially on the front.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
You are fortunate they stepped up to at least a front thru axle. QRs and disc brakes are an unhappy match, especially on the front.
Why do you say that? Iíve never had a problem with mine.
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Old 10-14-19, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Why do you say that? Iíve never had a problem with mine.
Most folks havenít either. But the internet is famous for people repeating what someone else says without fact checking or trying it themselves. Cycling is no exception. 90% of the opinions online are just that, opinions.
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Old 10-14-19, 01:22 PM
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My experience with QR and discs was that the caliper often needed to be realigned when the front wheel was removed/replaced. A small variation that would be acceptable with rim brakes would cause rubbing with the discs. Not a safety issue but an annoyance.
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Old 10-14-19, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
My experience with QR and discs was that the caliper often needed to be realigned when the front wheel was removed/replaced. A small variation that would be acceptable with rim brakes would cause rubbing with the discs. Not a safety issue but an annoyance.
That's literally never happened to me once. I wouldn't group all QR disc setups into the same bunch.
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Old 10-14-19, 05:02 PM
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Good to hear! FWIW, it doesn't seem there will be any question going forward. Seems as if manufacturers are going to T/A when their stock of older frames is exhausted.
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Old 10-14-19, 06:10 PM
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I have a 2014 Vaya with discs and QR F&R, and I speak from personal experience when I say I loathe QR and disc. The steel fork on that bike flexes and causes brake rub in most corners. Also it winds up and judders under hard braking. Would an equivalent thru-axle steel fork rub less - yes. Would a rotationally-stiffer QR carbon fork rub less - yes. Would a stiffer carbon TA fork rub - probably not ever.

Do note that I'm 200+ lbs, and most of my riding on that bike was with 50+ lbs of gear. If I take off the luggage and lose 50 lbs, no problem LOL

Last edited by fourfa; 10-14-19 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 10-14-19, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fourfa View Post
I have a 2014 Vaya with discs and QR F&R, and I speak from personal experience when I say I loathe QR and disc. The steel fork on that bike flexes and causes brake rub in most corners. Also it winds up and judders under hard braking. Would an equivalent thru-axle steel fork rub less - yes. Would a rotationally-stiffer QR carbon fork rub less - yes. Would a stiffer carbon TA fork rub - probably not ever.

Do note that I'm 200+ lbs, and most of my riding on that bike was with 50+ lbs of gear. If I take off the luggage and lose 50 lbs, no problem LOL
No problem with brake rub or "judder" with my steel fork 2017 Vaya (59.5cm). I don't ride with 50lbs of gear, but I am 225lbs. I assume you ruled out the common causes of this.

I've only experienced judder with a cantilever bike, but I didn't have the threaded headset snug enough.
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Old 10-14-19, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
My experience with QR and discs was that the caliper often needed to be realigned when the front wheel was removed/replaced. A small variation that would be acceptable with rim brakes would cause rubbing with the discs. Not a safety issue but an annoyance.
I have not experienced such a problem with QR and disc brakes.
I remove my wheels quite a bit as my 650b gravel bike also folds.
Using TPR Spyre which are dual actuated cable brakes so I'd expect it to be better than one sided actuation of many of the other cable disc brakes.
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Old 10-15-19, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
I have not experienced such a problem with QR and disc brakes.
I remove my wheels quite a bit as my 650b gravel bike also folds.
Using TPR Spyre which are dual actuated cable brakes so I'd expect it to be better than one sided actuation of many of the other cable disc brakes.
I've had the same issue with QR and disc brakes. Made thru-axles a priority on later purchases and haven't had the problem. I don't have a huge sample size though.
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Old 10-16-19, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
My experience with QR and discs was that the caliper often needed to be realigned when the front wheel was removed/replaced. A small variation that would be acceptable with rim brakes would cause rubbing with the discs. Not a safety issue but an annoyance.
I've had the same issue with my 2016 Specialized Crux. A definite huge annoyance.
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Old 10-17-19, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
My experience with QR and discs was that the caliper often needed to be realigned when the front wheel was removed/replaced. A small variation that would be acceptable with rim brakes would cause rubbing with the discs. Not a safety issue but an annoyance.
My Warbird with front thru-axle will occasionally start to rub after reinstalling the front wheel, so thru-axle is no fix either. Both TA and QR rely on you having the bikes weight on the wheel and ensuring the wheel is fully seated before tightening the axle down so I've really seen no benefit from TA and it's slower.

My other disc equipped bike has QR and rarely has any rub. If it does, it's got mech discs so a few clicks fixes things.
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Old 10-17-19, 01:31 PM
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I like TA in theory, but my only bike with TA front and rear has annoying skewers. The Fox skewers are ridiculous, I had to go watch a youtube just to figure out how to take them apart. And the Salsa one on the back is nearly as bad, it combines a QR with a TA and I never seem to be able to get it right. I don't quite see why they aren't all like the DT Swiss style where you just tighten down the skewer and go.
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Old 10-17-19, 03:44 PM
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My first gravel bike, Giant TCX SLR 2, had mech discs and QR skewers. It was a bit fidly to get the wheels like up perfectly to avoid any issues. My new gravel bike, Niner RLT 9 RDO, has thru-axles with 15mm front and 12 mm rear. They are bolt on thru axles, no QR mix levers. They are quite solid and I've had zero alignment issues even with some very heavy off road riding. With a 15mm front, the fork is rock solid.
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Old 10-17-19, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
You are fortunate they stepped up to at least a front thru axle. QRs and disc brakes are an unhappy match, especially on the front.
Yes. This isn't a convenience issue, just simple physics. If you stop hard enough and the QR isn't tight enough, the fork WILL lift off the axle. Not maybe, will. If you have not seen this happen, good for you. You have respected the two "enough"s in the previous sentence.

(I will forever be puzzled why they didn't just mount the caliper in front, similar to the rear. Then the same forces are pushing the fork down harder onto the axle. I know one of the thoughts with mountain bikes was less likelihood of snagging the caliper on brush, etc. but on the road?)

Ben
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Old 10-17-19, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
QR and disc brakes are fine with the right dropout orientation. TA is in the same safety hedge that tapered steerers and full-carbon forks are currently a part of.



There is no mechanism in TA that creates repeat-ability of axle placement and subsequently, rotor/caliper alignment. TA has erroneously been given credence for something more to do with being paired with hydraulic discs than anything else. If you're having an issue with caliper/rotor alignment the answer is to witness mark the hub locknuts and place them in the same orientation each time the wheel is installed - same for both QR and TA.
Iíll have to disagree with you on that. Thru axle perfectly locates the axle and rotor with no variance. The reason you wonít find TA on cheaper bikes is because it requires perfect alignment of the fork and frame dropouts; which is more costly. Done right, TA provides a secure and easily repeatable alignment that is much more secure than a QR.

I have several bikes with QR and a few with TA, and Iíd take TA over QR any day.
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Old 10-18-19, 05:16 AM
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I won't pretend to be qualified to discuss the physics involved in either system, but it seems as if folks who are (manufacturers) have moved to TA for discs. I'm happy with QRs on my rim brake bikes and the TA on my one disc brake bike. This will soon be fodder for C&V discussion
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Old 10-18-19, 07:50 PM
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Agreed. There’s no play in a properly set up TA and good hub. I have both QR and TA, and given the choice I’d always choose TA for security. Also, good luck finding any decent high end disc bike that’s still running QR’s.
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Old 10-19-19, 11:29 AM
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the advantages of having precision steering from a thru axle far out weighed the annoying factor of misaligned brakes of the QR & disc brake marriage.

as in even if QR worked perfectly every time, I'd still want thru axle. Once you have experienced it going back to QR is super hard!! I'd give up disc brakes and go back to rim brakes if I had to have a QR fork.


Physics be damned. I just know what is nice, and what is annoying.
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Old 10-19-19, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Love_Bikes View Post
I just noticed no Quick Release Wheel in front of Salsa Vaya 2019. The back has the Quick release lever. Any idea why this common feature was not provided? Thanks
It cost the manufactures too much money to redo the frames, so many still have QR on the rear.

Only an Issue when it comes to upgrading wheels. and then dealing with end caps etc.....

Or worse. People like TREK selling Boost spacing QR rear hubs. Now try to find an Upgrade boost spacing QR hub.... (a hub is possible out there, but a premade upgraded wheelsset, isn't going to happen)

Personally I won't buy a new bike at new bike prices unless the entire thing is updated.
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