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Toe Overlap

Old 01-28-20, 08:45 AM
  #1  
NyoGoat
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Toe Overlap

Is toe overlap worth trading the bike out for? I recently bought a Treck Chekpoint and it rides fine. I initially didn't think the small amount of overlap would be an issue. As i've ridden around town a bit more i've almost fallen over waiting at stop lights while trying to balance and then hitting the wheel with my foot. All of a sudden my love for this bike is gone.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:49 AM
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Wheelbase & geometry associated with frame size. Do you have a bike in the same size that does not have overlap? Overlap is not uncommon on smaller frames.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:50 AM
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For me it's something I'm aware of on a couple of my bikes, but it's not a deal-breaker. That's a subjective question for you to answer, if you don't want to ride the bike because of it, then get rid of it.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:58 AM
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I have a road bike that doesn't cause me any issues. I thought it might be an issue with gravel bikes using bigger tires and different geometry. I ride a 54 frame
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Old 01-28-20, 09:00 AM
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The more times you fall, the closer you will get to getting rid of it. I still have a couple more falls to make the decision. Thankfully my toe overlap falls are always at less than walking speed, typically while doing a small radius U-turn.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NyoGoat View Post
I have a road bike that doesn't cause me any issues. I thought it might be an issue with gravel bikes using bigger tires and different geometry. I ride a 54 frame
Depending on the amount, is your cleat position the same? I also have a 54 (road bike) and get some overlap. It's not an issue when you are riding. It's only something to be aware of when starting with your wheel turned.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Thankfully my toe overlap falls are always at less than walking speed, typically while doing a small radius U-turn.
that's because touching the tire with your toe is almost impossible at high speed…
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Old 01-28-20, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tdilf View Post
that's because touching the tire with your toe is almost impossible at high speed…
Yup, I was just pointing out (to those that may not know) that toe overlap is typically an ultra-low-speed incident, and sometimes no-speed. Learning to stall and fall gracefully is part of cycling, and in my case, even more-so on technical uphill mtb. So even if you know your bike has overlap there's no need to get rid of it, since the resulting fall will typically be less severe, because the speeds are low. Just make sure you fall where and how you want to (elbows in, and hands on the bars, IMHO)

Last edited by Riveting; 01-28-20 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 01-28-20, 10:18 AM
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The "cool kids" like to tell you that since toe overlap isn't a problem for them (usually when racing), that you should "get over it." I think that's making excuses for poor bike design. If your riding involves a lot of slow-speed maneuvering and starts/stops in crowds, toe overlap can become a problem.

Moving up a frame size can help a little, but most people don't have a lot of room to go in that direction. Looks like the Checkpoint comes with 700x40C tires, which is a pretty big wheel -- you might consider a bike with a smaller wheelsize. I'm a 650B guy now for the most part.
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Old 01-28-20, 10:42 AM
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I have one bike with toe overlap and when I try to do my lousy trackstands at traffic lights I sometimes hit the front tire with my toe. Haven't gone down yet and have developed a reflex response. There's too much I like about the bike to consider replacing it though. And still can't do a trackstand worth sh*t.

Last edited by john m flores; 01-28-20 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 01-28-20, 04:07 PM
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yup, only bothers me doing track stands. If I'm at speed it just rubs a little on the shoe. You can make sure you have some snug fitting shoes (length wise) and to some degree tires will make a difference. I only have a problem on my gravel bike with 50mm+ tires (it was designed for 33mm, lol).
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Old 01-29-20, 07:42 AM
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Every properly fitting 700c road/gravel bike I have owned has toe overlap.

A total non-issue for me.

Only becomes a potential issue at very low speed, and even then, avoiding it has become completely automatic and unconscious. It is a muscle memory thing for me.
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Old 01-29-20, 09:13 AM
  #13  
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For me it is. I don't have it on my Revolt, got tired of it on my Tarmac, so I'm switching to a Defy for my road bike, feels just as fast/stiff as the Tarmac, but longer wheelbase & front center means no toe overlap (and it feels more stable). I don't race crits, so I don't need/want twitchy handling.
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Old 01-29-20, 09:20 AM
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When I try steep and technical climbs, such as something a mountain bike is suited for. It happens and drives me nuts.

It bothers me enough that I may replace the bike over it. Or if I got a mountain bike, the gravel bike would never be in toe rub situations anymore.
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Old 01-29-20, 11:25 AM
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Since I ride 48-50cm frames every bike I've had even slack tourers have toe overlap and its never been a problem even low speed technical cornering with pedalling and ratcheting. I guess if you had a mix of bikes with or without overlap it might be annoying but overlap in general is not really an issue once the muscle memory is ingrained
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Old 01-29-20, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Since I ride 48-50cm frames every bike I've had even slack tourers have toe overlap and its never been a problem even low speed technical cornering with pedalling and ratcheting. I guess if you had a mix of bikes with or without overlap it might be annoying but overlap in general is not really an issue once the muscle memory is ingrained
Fwiw, toe overlap seems to be less of an issue now than when I got the bike, 2ish years ago. So there is truth in the above comment.
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Old 01-29-20, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NyoGoat View Post
Is toe overlap worth trading the bike out for? I recently bought a Treck Chekpoint and it rides fine. I initially didn't think the small amount of overlap would be an issue. As i've ridden around town a bit more i've almost fallen over waiting at stop lights while trying to balance and then hitting the wheel with my foot. All of a sudden my love for this bike is gone.
Stop track standing at stop lights. Seems like a really simple solution since there is no real need to track stand in the first place. At best, you start riding when the light turns green, just as you would if you had one foot on the ground. At worst you fall over while trying to balance and make a fool of yourself or get hurt.
Seems like a really simple and obvious solution.
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Old 01-29-20, 01:06 PM
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My 54cm CX bike has toe overlap. I've hit my toe against the tire a few times during slow u-turn movements during cross races, but it hasn't caused any problems other than some scuffs on my shoes. I definitely wouldn't want to ride a larger frame size just to avoid it.
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Old 01-29-20, 03:14 PM
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Stop track standing at stop lights. Seems like a really simple solution since there is no real need to track stand in the first place. At best, you start riding when the light turns green, just as you would if you had one foot on the ground. At worst you fall over while trying to balance and make a fool of yourself or get hurt.
Seems like a really simple and obvious solution.
True dat!

I generally only track stand my track bike because it is a lot easier than unclipping on that bike and then starting out with a 90" gear (and I think its silly to drive my bike to the track).

But if I know the light is about to turn green - I'll track stand anything for the duration of a yellow.

But yeah, I'm good at making a fool of myself, and doing a track stand for a couple of minutes only to hit my toe on the tire and fall when the light turns green is a pretty effective way to look foolish. Certainly feels foolish.
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Old 01-29-20, 04:00 PM
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I'm going to disagree with most of the posters here. Bikes are tools. If the tool doesn't do its job well, get a better one. For example, why saddle yourself with an axe that is to heavy and long handled for you to swing effectively when you can simply get a smaller, better fitting one? If your ride is better with toe clearance, go for it! It's your ride, not ours.

Ben
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Old 01-29-20, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I'm going to disagree with most of the posters here. Bikes are tools. If the tool doesn't do its job well, get a better one. For example, why saddle yourself with an axe that is to heavy and long handled for you to swing effectively when you can simply get a smaller, better fitting one? If your ride is better with toe clearance, go for it! It's your ride, not ours.

Ben
I donít follow what it is you are disagreeing with.
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Old 01-30-20, 11:16 AM
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56cm 2019 Niner RDO RLT gravel bike; size 12 feets, zero toe overlap. The frame is sized well for my frame, and I don't see how you could have overlap issues on this bike unless you're riding a really small frame.
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Old 01-30-20, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I'm going to disagree with most of the posters here. Bikes are tools. If the tool doesn't do its job well, get a better one. For example, why saddle yourself with an axe that is to heavy and long handled for you to swing effectively when you can simply get a smaller, better fitting one? If your ride is better with toe clearance, go for it! It's your ride, not ours.

Ben
From what has been said, the tool does its job well and fits properly. Your axe example doesnt really 'fit' here.
The OP is using the tool for something it isnt designed- to track stand at stoplights. I doubt track standing is considered when designing any road or gravel bike.

But sure- it makes sense to buy a bike for how you use it. If the geometry needs to take track standing into account, then perfect. I personally would rather the geometry match what I want for the other 99.83% of my time on the bike, but to each their own.
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Old 01-30-20, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by csrpenfab View Post
56cm 2019 Niner RDO RLT gravel bike; size 12 feets, zero toe overlap. The frame is sized well for my frame, and I don't see how you could have overlap issues on this bike unless you're riding a really small frame.
​​​​​​
Interesting. 53cm Niner RLT RDO also 2019, size 9 1/2 feet. Definite toe overlap. Tires are 38. I'm going to look at the geometry chart and compare the 56 and 53 size frames.
​​​​​​
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Old 01-31-20, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Stop track standing at stop lights. Seems like a really simple solution since there is no real need to track stand in the first place. At best, you start riding when the light turns green, just as you would if you had one foot on the ground. At worst you fall over while trying to balance and make a fool of yourself or get hurt.
Seems like a really simple and obvious solution.
I have been a passenger in cars where we stopped behind someone doing a bit of a wobbly trackstand and their front wheel was moving left and right. The drivers asked me what direction they were going in and what they were doing. I think that people who do trackstands at intersections with lights often cause confusion to nearby drivers.

I have a Bianchi road bike that has toe overlap and at stops I just put a foot down. I then don't have to worry about hitting my foot against the tire/wheel when I start up again. YMMV

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