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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbround Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Why doesn't this exist?

Old 11-16-20, 12:06 PM
  #1  
UberIM
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Why doesn't this exist?

I am looking for a carbon framed Gravel or Mtn bike with drops that will take tires up to 2.4-2.6

What I have presently:

Salsa Mukluk 26 x 4 (winter rider and presently my only mtn bike)
Salsa Marrakesh 29 x 2.0 used as a gravel with 1 x11 spacing

What I would like

Carbon frame
29er geometry
drop handle bars
2 x 11 gears
able to take 2.0 to 2.4 tires


Looking to ride road (2.0 slicks for group long distance road rides 60-75 mile days)
2.4 as a mtn bike tire
2.1 as a gravel bike tire

Salsa Cutthroat is carbon but only to 2.0 2.1 range tire
Salsa Fargo is Ti. Never had a Ti bike and not sure I want one now
I guess I could go with the Fargo with steel frame and carbon fork

Does anyone know of a Carbon framed gravel bike/adventure bike (not even sure what the new names even mean anymore) that take 2.5 " tires?

Thanks
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Old 11-16-20, 12:28 PM
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mack_turtle
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2.4" is a LOT to ask of a drop bar bike. I am sure it will come eventually. Your best bet is to buy a XC mountain bike and convert it to a drop bar. Getting the geometry and fit right might be difficult, and it will probably end up looking goofy. No way around that.

Some bikes that fit the bill but with a 2.25" tire limit can be found here: https://bikepacking.com/index/drop-b...in-bikes-29er/
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Old 11-16-20, 12:43 PM
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UberIM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
2.4" is a LOT to ask of a drop bar bike. I am sure it will come eventually. Your best bet is to buy a XC mountain bike and convert it to a drop bar. Getting the geometry and fit right might be difficult, and it will probably end up looking goofy. No way around that.

Some bikes that fit the bill but with a 2.25" tire limit can be found here: https://bikepacking.com/index/drop-b...in-bikes-29er/
Thanks!
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Old 11-16-20, 01:07 PM
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Salsa Cutthroat can fit up to 2.4" tires:
https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-new...and-more-gear/

I've never heard of Framed, but they apparently have a carbon drop bar bike that fits huge tires:
https://fat-bike.com/2019/04/first-l...bar-adventure/

If you're willing to do a custom build, you could probably build up a carbon XC MTB hard tail frameset with drop-bar components and a rigid fork. That's basically what that Framed Marquette is.
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Old 11-16-20, 01:13 PM
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Cutthroat
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Old 11-16-20, 02:46 PM
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Salso Ti Fargo

Originally Posted by UberIM View Post
I am looking for a carbon framed Gravel or Mtn bike with drops that will take tires up to 2.4-2.6

What I have presently:

Salsa Mukluk 26 x 4 (winter rider and presently my only mtn bike)
Salsa Marrakesh 29 x 2.0 used as a gravel with 1 x11 spacing

What I would like

Carbon frame
29er geometry
drop handle bars
2 x 11 gears
able to take 2.0 to 2.4 tires


Looking to ride road (2.0 slicks for group long distance road rides 60-75 mile days)
2.4 as a mtn bike tire
2.1 as a gravel bike tire

Salsa Cutthroat is carbon but only to 2.0 2.1 range tire
Salsa Fargo is Ti. Never had a Ti bike and not sure I want one now
I guess I could go with the Fargo with steel frame and carbon fork

Does anyone know of a Carbon framed gravel bike/adventure bike (not even sure what the new names even mean anymore) that take 2.5 " tires?

Thanks
I don't own one, but I saw one in a recent gravel race. Can stuff up to a 3" tire on them. All of the nice ride of steel, but lighter.
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Old 11-16-20, 03:25 PM
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A friend of mine has a Cutty (original design, 2017 or so), it takes WAY more than 2.1", that's just not correct. Perhaps Salsa quoted a very conservative spec on clearance once long ago? 2.3 should be no problem, maybe even 2.4 in some tires. At that point it comes down to which exact tires, how high of knobs, on which rims, stretched for how long at what pressure, etc

But your post... "will take tires up to 2.4-2.6" then "able to take 2.0 to 2.4 tires" then "that take 2.5" tires?" and then "2 x 11 gears"

First thing to do is decide on your actual max tire requirement. The difference between 2.3" and 2.6" is surprisingly big. Since you have a flat bar fat bike I'd rule out the 2.6" requirement, you will never get there in the present day

2.3 should be achievable with a Cutty and the sliver of what you can do with 2.6 that you can't do with 2.3... seems minimal to me and not worth the compromises you'd have to accept in the design. Especially for someone that already has a midfat bike!

As for the rest... I've done a test ride on a Cutty in my size and I wouldn't prefer to do 60-75 mile group road rides if I had another option. It's very tall, very upright, the wheels/tires are super heavy to accelerate, it's just comparatively slow on road. Unless you're a monster compared to your friends, that would be a very sucky ride. However for long bikepacking/touring days at your own pace, it would be great

Are you looking to ditch the other two bikes and get to N=1?

Last edited by fourfa; 11-16-20 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 11-17-20, 02:51 AM
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As mentioned, a carbon mtb frameset build-up might work.

Had a look at options for this a while back. Obviously requiring a shorter-reach (with decent stack) frame to best suit slapping on a drop bar.
After a bit of searching, flagged one of the Cube women's mtb framesets as the shortest-reach carbon I could find.

Getting the right atc rigid fork would help lower the bb a little, but still have the front end angle manageable.
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Old 11-17-20, 02:57 AM
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it would be a most likely be a hard tail mtb carbon frame with a bar and fork swap !

the giant tcx can run 50mm i think !

also ask yourself why would you want to run 3 inch tires , IMO those kinds of tires are for down hill because you need that bulk to navigate obstacles , but if you are going 50 miles or way more across multiple terrains , wouldn't it just cost you too much energy for very little reward **********
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Old 11-17-20, 05:22 AM
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All very helpful ideas, comments and thoughts (as usual).

It is all very confusing for you and for me. LOL

I ride with my SIL and he has a mtb with 2.8 tires. When we ride single track he likes and I envy the stability of the 2.8 " tires
I either ride my 2" tired (pun intended) Marrakesh which makes rocks, stumps, and roots" interesting" or my fat bike which is super duper slow (I have nothing to do with the slow speed lol). Skiing is my numero uno sport (I live for winter!); mtn biking is off season or when conditions are not good enough to XC ski or skin up and ski down.

I wouldn't jettison any of the bikes.

Marrakesh would still be my commuter
Mukluk would be my winter bike when XC skiing is too icy, dicey, or mixed snow/rocks (here in New England conditions are always interesting).

I am not a very skilled mtn biker and it keeps me in condition for skiing. I am not interested in a bike injury so want a sturdy/steady ride

Framed is out of the Twin Cities IIRC. A well respected boutique bike company.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-17-20, 09:32 AM
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I'm curious why you're only looking at carbon? Frame material will make little difference in terms of ride quality with your preferred range of tire size (29x2.0 - 29x2.6). You may save a little weight, but I don't think the bike as a whole will be significantly lighter compared to other frame materials.
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Old 11-17-20, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
2.4" is a LOT to ask of a drop bar bike. I am sure it will come eventually. Your best bet is to buy a XC mountain bike and convert it to a drop bar. Getting the geometry and fit right might be difficult, and it will probably end up looking goofy. No way around that.

Some bikes that fit the bill but with a 2.25" tire limit can be found here: https://bikepacking.com/index/drop-b...in-bikes-29er/

The Specialized Epic Hardtail is the perfect bike to take drop bars.

https://theradavist.com/2019/06/lael...epic-hardtail/

Another good choice would be the Surly Krampus.

Also, Carbon would be my last choice for a gravel or adventure bike unless I was sponsored and had a team of people to be working on the bike and keeping it in shape. Ride compliance is easiest handled with tire size and pressure. The newest aluminum builds are almost as light as carbon and ride very well.

Last edited by Cpn_Dunsel; 11-17-20 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 11-17-20, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
The Specialized Epic Hardtail is the perfect bike to take drop bars.
Another good choice would be the Surly Krampus.
most hardtails that don't have a super-long "modern" top tube length could work well, but even frames with conservative XC geometry tend to have long top tubes and short head tubes compared to a bike that was designed with a drop bar in mind. this means getting it to fit with a drop bar will probably require a tall spacer stack, a tall-rise stem, and a stem with short reach. it can be done, but it might be harder than you expect. for example, a mountain bike that fits me will have something like a 625mm top tube with a short, modern stem, but a drop-bar gravel bike that fits me as a 550mm top tube and a conventional "long" stem. It can be made to work, but you might make some handling compromises in the process. I would not appreciate the compromised handling of a drop bar bike with a stubby stem on it. YMMV, but there's a good reason why bikes are designed the way they are: they are difficult to make into something they are not meant to be.

Lael Wilcox is a beast and probably rides a bike that fits and handles in ways that would be awkward for most mortals.

Last edited by mack_turtle; 11-17-20 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 11-17-20, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
most hardtails that don't have a super-long "modern" top tube length could work well, but even frames with conservative XC geometry tend to have long top tubes and short head tubes compared to a bike that was designed with a drop bar in mind. this means getting it to fit with a drop bar will probably require a tall spacer stack, a tall-rise stem, and a stem with short reach. it can be done, but it might be harder than you expect. for example, a mountain bike that fits me will have something like a 625mm top tube with a short, modern stem, but a drop-bar gravel bike that fits me as a 550mm top tube and a conventional "long" stem. It can be made to work, but you might make some handling compromises in the process. I would not appreciate the compromised handling of a drop bar bike with a stubby stem on it. YMMV, but there's a good reason why bikes are designed the way they are: they are difficult to make into something they are not meant to be.

Lael Wilcox is a beast and probably rides a bike that fits and handles in ways that would be awkward for most mortals.
mack_turtle: Well said. My Surly Ogre (size small) has an effective top tube length of 575mm, a 50mm stem and is "all day" comfortable. I absolutely love that bike!!! However, if I dared to throw on some drop bars I doubt it would be as comfortable or as fun to ride.

I'm currently building an endurance/gravel, drop bar bike (Basso Palta) with an effective top tube length of 510mm. The stem length will likely be somewhere between 70mm and 90mm (still TBD). If I were to put flat bars on the endurance/gravel bike it would be a horrible fit.

In addition to significant differences in reach, the stack numbers on the Ogre and the new endurance bike are also very different - 592mm for the Ogre vs. 525mm for the Palta.

None of this info should stop you from making whaever mods you want to implement. Sometimes you gotta break the rules to learn why theyt exist. However, you may also find that what doesn't work for most other humans might work really well for you. You don't know until you experiement. Just make sure to have an "exit strategy" if it doesn't work out.

Last edited by Cycletography; 11-17-20 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 11-17-20, 06:42 PM
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All very interesting points of view. I am never disappointed on this forum. Thank you all.
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Old 11-17-20, 10:46 PM
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I haven't read too much of the replies but ...

1- Carbon is IMO unnecessary in this application.
2- The Salsa Cutthroat takes big enough tires (apart from a fat bike) while being carbon and light
3- A Salsa Fargo has geometry designed for drops and can handle 27.5" x 3" tires. That's enough tire for everything and (and to some degree) sand/snow/mud/ice

The tire range will be your biggest contingency:
The OPEN UP or WIDE are ultralight gravel drop bar bikes that can take up to 2.1" tires. This is a high-end, fast rolling, snappy road bike.
On the other side of things, the Fargo has a more relaxed dropbar geometry and the capacity to carry half your house on it.
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Old 11-17-20, 11:29 PM
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You ruled out titanium and yes, it is expensive, but ... if you can afford it, a builder could build you exactly what you want. I have gone to TiCycles for two customs. First was/is a fairly conventional road bike, just geometry to suit me and a few little non-standard features. The second was for a bike, that while again just a road bike was designed as a pure fix gear with what I thought was a unique dropout. (I've since seen or heard of it being done by others.)

In the process of working with TiCycles for those two bikes (plus multiple stems, forks, repairs and mods on other bikes, I've gotten to see much of their incredible range of bikes. Single siders (my words) where you can pull the tire off never removing the wheel - nice for belted bikes. All sorts of mountain bikes. Truss forks that are radically lighter than your usual fork/steerer/stem.

I am sure there are other ti builder who can do just what you want. I haven't looked simply because I've worked with TiCycles now 16 years and they are local.

Edit: And Ticycles has built a few fat MTBs. A road geometry bike to take MTB wheels? For them. that would be easy. They've probably already done a few.

Ben
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Old 11-18-20, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
most hardtails that don't have a super-long "modern" top tube length could work well, but even frames with conservative XC geometry tend to have long top tubes and short head tubes compared to a bike that was designed with a drop bar in mind. this means getting it to fit with a drop bar will probably require a tall spacer stack, a tall-rise stem, and a stem with short reach. it can be done, but it might be harder than you expect. for example, a mountain bike that fits me will have something like a 625mm top tube with a short, modern stem, but a drop-bar gravel bike that fits me as a 550mm top tube and a conventional "long" stem. It can be made to work, but you might make some handling compromises in the process. I would not appreciate the compromised handling of a drop bar bike with a stubby stem on it. YMMV, but there's a good reason why bikes are designed the way they are: they are difficult to make into something they are not meant to be.

Lael Wilcox is a beast and probably rides a bike that fits and handles in ways that would be awkward for most mortals.


I swapped out the flat bar for a drop bar on my Epic and it was not so difficult. It's not rocket science. It was not harder than I expected. It was exactly as I expected. It rides as excellently as I hoped. As far as riding compromises? Under biking has been around forever. I bought the bike with this intent, made sure the geometry would work for me after conversion, and it does. Do I ride it on the same trails as I would when it had flat bars? NO, I do not

I use it as a long haul gravel grinder in the Southern Appalachians where the double track is often as nasty as single.


A lot more things are doable than most people realize. Lael is a human being. Nothing too wacky about her body and she fits onto regular frames like most of us other mortals.

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Old 11-18-20, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel View Post
I swapped out the flat bar for a drop bar on my Epic and it was not so difficult. It's not rocket science. It was not harder than I expected. It was exactly as I expected. It rides as excellently as I hoped. As far as riding compromises? Under biking has been around forever.


A lot more things are doable than most people realize. Lael is a human being. Nothing too wacky about her body and she fits onto regular frames like most of us other mortals.
You're correct. Logistically it's an easy swap, but going from flat bar to drop bar will significantly change the fit of the bike. If that translates into better comfort and a better ride for you then it's "mission accomplished". Enjoy!
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Old 11-18-20, 04:56 PM
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Id be careful about getting a HT MTB with the plan to do a drop bar conversion. Modern MTBs are longer in the top tube than they used to be, and much longer than frames designed for drop bars.
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Old 11-18-20, 06:40 PM
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I just saw that someone was coming out with a drop bar fatbike. Bearclaw bicycle company

Last edited by unterhausen; 11-18-20 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 11-19-20, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I just saw that someone was coming out with a drop bar fatbike. Bearclaw bicycle company
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHskam9l22W/
wow!
Tak
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Old 11-19-20, 08:55 AM
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I assume that is rust on the drivetrain
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Old 11-19-20, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I assume that is rust on the drivetrain
Wow, it sure does look it. Surely it can't be, though?
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Old 11-19-20, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
Wow, it sure does look it. Surely it can't be, though?
If it was my bike, probably
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