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Santa Cruz Stigmata Questions/Opinions

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Santa Cruz Stigmata Questions/Opinions

Old 03-30-21, 12:24 PM
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speedyspaghetti
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Santa Cruz Stigmata Questions/Opinions

Hey everyone -

So I'm contemplating the purchase of a new Santa Cruz Stigmata in 54c with the SRAM Rival 1x build. My LBS has a shipment coming in in a month so I put a refundable deposit down but they unfortunately don't have one for me to test ride.

One of my main reasons for upgrading, beyond the fact that I love gravel riding and have been doing it way more than road riding since I bought my first gravel bike, is that my current bike (Scott Speedster Gravel) has very road-orientend geometry (72.5 degree head angle, short wheelbase) that makes toe overlap an issue on switchbacks. Does anyone that has a newer model Stigmata have any issues with toe overlap? I have size 9.5 shoes if that matters.

The other bikes I'm considering are a Lauf True Grit and an Ibis Hakka which are somewhat similar in price, so if anyone bought any of these 3 over the others, I'd love to hear about why.

Thanks!
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Old 03-30-21, 12:43 PM
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54cm Stigmata has a 1015mm wheelbase w/ 425mm rear center measurement (chain stay).
54cm Speedster Gravel lists 986.8mm wheelbase w/ 422 rear center (chain stay) measurement.

There's a lot of other variables at play like shoes, crank arm length, cleat position, tire size, etc. but on paper it looks like the Stigmata would give you an extra 25mm of space.
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Old 03-30-21, 02:05 PM
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When you say switchbacks, are you referring to twisty singletrack? If so, maybe an MTB is in order. 2 bikes for different styles of riding.

To be clear, my gravel bike is ridden on our flat river bottom twisty singletrack too as its plenty of tire and handling is quicker which I like. Im not knocking how you use the bike.
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Old 03-30-21, 02:31 PM
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My 54cm Cannondale CX bike has some toe overlap as well. I've never really found it to be a problem, but I'm also not usually trying to pedal while going slowly around a tight corner. I can see how if you're climbing something really steep and going slow, trying to continue pedaling while navigating a very tight turn, it might become a problem.

The solution to toe overlap is just to ride faster.
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Old 04-06-21, 05:31 PM
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I have an Ibis Hakka in a 55cm size. I wear a 9.5 shoe as well and have NO toe overlap with the 650b wheels and 2.1 inch tires... Hope that helps. I would definitely avoid toe overlap on a gravel bike...
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Old 04-07-21, 06:45 AM
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It is possible to calculate the front center (bb to axle) measurement from a geometry chart using some trig. You need the chainstay measurement, the BB drop and the wheelbase.
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Old 04-07-21, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
I have an Ibis Hakka in a 55cm size. I wear a 9.5 shoe as well and have NO toe overlap with the 650b wheels and 2.1 inch tires... Hope that helps. I would definitely avoid toe overlap on a gravel bike...
Did you buy the Ibis in the 650b configuration? Or did you buy a separate wheelset?
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Old 04-12-21, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
Did you buy the Ibis in the 650b configuration? Or did you buy a separate wheelset?
I bought the 650b configuration. Cared more about stability and control over all-out speed...
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Old 04-22-21, 03:34 PM
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I have 2 wheelsets for my Niner RLT9 and I get toe overlap with 40s on the 700c wheels and no overlap on 47s on the 650b wheels. Maybe go for the smaller diameter wheels on the Stigmata if you can order it that way.
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Old 04-22-21, 04:01 PM
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FWIW my gravel 650x47s and road 700x28s are extremely close to the same rolling diameter, close enough never to think about geometry changes or toe overlap etc

If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
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Old 04-23-21, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fourfa View Post
FWIW my gravel 650x47s and road 700x28s are extremely close to the same rolling diameter, close enough never to think about geometry changes or toe overlap etc

If I was checking a box for factory wheels either 650 or 700, I'd check 650. Light wheels are always nice, but with relatively heavy 650 tires the difference between factory and very good light aftermarket wheels will be less noticeable than with light road tires. Especially so if you want a deeper section road wheelset for aero, where spending real money for light carbon rims will really pay off
Yeah unfortunately the only Stigmata build kit you can purchase with 650s is the $6000 one, which is more than I want to pay. Mine comes with 700s, but I figure I'll buy a used set of 650s and just have two sets - one for road/light gravel and one for singletrack and stuff. I'm little concerned that I'll be too lazy to swap wheels though, since I don't really want to purchase two cassettes since the Eagle ones are expensive as hell.
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Old 04-23-21, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jp911 View Post
I have 2 wheelsets for my Niner RLT9 and I get toe overlap with 40s on the 700c wheels and no overlap on 47s on the 650b wheels. Maybe go for the smaller diameter wheels on the Stigmata if you can order it that way.
Is it a significant amount of overlap? Or can you deal with it on tight switchbacks? Unfortunately only the super expensive builds of the Stigmata come with a 650 option, so I'll have to buy separate.
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Old 04-23-21, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
I don't really want to purchase two cassettes since the Eagle ones are expensive as hell.
Ah but you're in luck - the build sheet I'm looking at says it has DT Swiss 350 or 370 hubs. These feature a tool-free freehub removal - keep your one cassette, and just pop it from one wheelset to the other in seconds. No chain whip, no lockring removal, no tools at all, just pull outward on the cogs and the whole hub shell + cassette pop right off.

You do need to be careful not to lose the star ratchets or the small springs, so it's not completely trivial the first couple times. And the star ratchets have a special grease that needs to stay on them, so less handling is better (also it's pretty gunky and hard to remove from fingers and clothes). Obviously cassette cogs get greasy too (unless you hot-wax the chain...)

I have four wheelsets with DT Swiss in my garage, and I move the cassettes around all the time. It's a really sweet feature

EDIT - 350 has the star ratchets that can come loose. 370 has traditional pawls, which is even easier to swap as I don't think these can come loose as easily when swapping. Though I've seen that recently you can get a kit to swap the pawls to a star-ratchet system on the 370, which most people consider an upgrade.

You do need the hubs on both rear wheels to be the same, I don't think you can swap 370 to 350 or vice-versa (even with the ratchet upgrade kit). Corrections welcome though

Last edited by fourfa; 04-23-21 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-24-21, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fourfa View Post
Ah but you're in luck - the build sheet I'm looking at says it has DT Swiss 350 or 370 hubs. These feature a tool-free freehub removal - keep your one cassette, and just pop it from one wheelset to the other in seconds. No chain whip, no lockring removal, no tools at all, just pull outward on the cogs and the whole hub shell + cassette pop right off.

You do need to be careful not to lose the star ratchets or the small springs, so it's not completely trivial the first couple times. And the star ratchets have a special grease that needs to stay on them, so less handling is better (also it's pretty gunky and hard to remove from fingers and clothes). Obviously cassette cogs get greasy too (unless you hot-wax the chain...)

I have four wheelsets with DT Swiss in my garage, and I move the cassettes around all the time. It's a really sweet feature

EDIT - 350 has the star ratchets that can come loose. 370 has traditional pawls, which is even easier to swap as I don't think these can come loose as easily when swapping. Though I've seen that recently you can get a kit to swap the pawls to a star-ratchet system on the 370, which most people consider an upgrade.

You do need the hubs on both rear wheels to be the same, I don't think you can swap 370 to 350 or vice-versa (even with the ratchet upgrade kit). Corrections welcome though
Yeah so unfortunately the 700s that come with the bike use 370s, but the 650bs I already bought have 350s on them.
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Old 04-24-21, 06:40 PM
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Ah, that's a shame. I went and found the press release, looks like the conversion freehub bodies are indeed different than the stock 350 bodies. Too bad.
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Old 04-24-21, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fourfa View Post
Ah, that's a shame. I went and found the press release, looks like the conversion freehub bodies are indeed different than the stock 350 bodies. Too bad.
Yeah the 350s would be nice, but unfortunately the next step up in build spec on the Stigmata is a good amount more expensive and not really worth it imo. I imagine I'll only swap the 650s on when I take on much more chunky stuff on the weekends, so keeping the 700s on there during the week and then swapping over isn't the end of the world. Just need to decided if I wanna run a road tire on the 700s or do a lighter gravel tire like a GravelKing or something.
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Old 04-24-21, 06:53 PM
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Well if the cassette cost is the original sticking point, there's Eagle clones on alibaba... I have an SROAD 10-36 11-sp for my 2x and I'm very happy with it. There are a million varieties but so far I haven't seen anything bad about SROAD cassettes. They're a little popular on here because they're very light, one-piece milled steel like XX1 but 1/4 the price. Probably cheaper than the DTSwiss conversion kit TBH
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Old 04-24-21, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fourfa View Post
Well if the cassette cost is the original sticking point, there's Eagle clones on alibaba... I have an SROAD 10-36 11-sp for my 2x and I'm very happy with it. There are a million varieties but so far I haven't seen anything bad about SROAD cassettes. They're a little popular on here because they're very light, one-piece milled steel like XX1 but 1/4 the price. Probably cheaper than the DTSwiss conversion kit TBH
Would something like this work even with AXS?

Ali Cassette
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Old 04-26-21, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
Is it a significant amount of overlap? Or can you deal with it on tight switchbacks? Unfortunately only the super expensive builds of the Stigmata come with a 650 option, so I'll have to buy separate.
I had to test it out this weekend so I could give something better than "a little bit". LOL

With the 700c wheels with 40mm Maxxis Refuse tires, I have approximately a half-inch of overlap on a tight turn. It could be an issue on a really tight uphill switchback, but my local rides don't really have any situations where it's an issue. I've only experienced it while riding when I've had to quickly turn at low speed while pedaling.
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Old 04-28-21, 02:15 PM
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It is a nice and fast bike for sure. It replaced my CruX. I'm on a 58 with size 46/12 shoes and no toe overlap. On a 56, I may get that. My bike was the GRX one and it came with 350s. I like 350s. They can be easily upgraded to ratchets with more teeth and are easy to service. I don't like pawl hubs and always replace those wheel sets with DTs or Chris Kings, so I figured I'd spend a few hundred more for the GRX setup.

For me, it was the Diverge or the Stigmata. I prefer the Future Shock over nothing but being impulsive, I grabbed a Moonstone Blue Stigmata when I found one. It just looked so nice.
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Old 04-29-21, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chandne View Post
I grabbed a Moonstone Blue Stigmata when I found one. It just looked so nice.
I love that one…
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Old 04-29-21, 11:49 PM
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with Stigmata you are gaining about 20mm of front center, is that enough to avoid toe overlap? with Lauf you are gaining over 40mm, very unlikely to get any toe overlap even with huge 700c tires
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