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2x - 1 Derailleur

Old 04-07-21, 08:17 PM
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2x - 1 Derailleur

We have been thinking about adding this to the options we carry at our shop. It is an IGH wireless rear hub that has the same inernal shift range as a front derailleur. Why we have not seen this before I have no idea, but it looks intriguing. Your thoughts appreciated:

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Old 04-07-21, 10:09 PM
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It looks like a nice implementation of an idea that we definitely have seen before. I didn't think anyone had offered anything like it for a long time but Sturmey has a current product. One of them has disc mounts https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/pr.../cs-rf3-silver

Sachs also used to sell one. People used to obsess about chain line so they didn't like to have a lot of gears. So the combo of IGH with a few external gears made sense to them.
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Old 04-08-21, 02:11 AM
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What existing electronic systems is is compatible with? ETap? Di2 with BT module? Seems like a nifty way to get lots of range with more gradual steps, and without so much exposed mechanicals to get buggered.
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Old 04-08-21, 09:19 AM
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The advantage I see right away is that a lot of bikes sold now are really not intended to work with 2x. So if you want more gears that's a problem.
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Old 04-08-21, 09:55 AM
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This is about the coolest bit of new tech that Ive seen in the last handful of years. Everything else has been 'meh' and quite bluntly most of it seems to just be stuff that is clutter and doesnt really improve a riding experience(at least mine).
I never would figure that I will switch to a 1x for gravel since gravel roads are just unpaved roads and my road bikes are 2x. This though?...I could see this being a possible change.

- The battery lasting 3 months is good and important to highlight.
- The ability to shift under load is neat, though I have never approached a 15% grade in my largest ring so is it super needed?

- $200USD for a different cassette is serious money.
- The cassettes only going up to 34t is limiting. Hopefully a 36t will be added soon.
- $2860 for their wheelsets is bonkers. That will eliminate all but the most willing of early adopters.
- The lack of standalone hub so you can just build your own wheel(or have it built) is a massive drawback.
- Service is a question- how fast will issues be resolved when something breaks or the bluetooth simply doesnt connect? You have a cyclist with a $3000 wheelset that only works in whatever gear ratio it happens to be set on.


It doesnt really do much for me that a 2x doesnt already do though, so if my view is similar to others, the cost may be a big hurdle. If this catches on and comes down to a more accessible price point, I would for sure consider it when I need to change my drivetrain.
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Old 04-08-21, 10:07 AM
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If I ever got this - I would wait to see the long term reviews on how it holds up and the price would have to be lower.
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Old 04-08-21, 10:14 AM
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I figured the money was too much for me. People buy pinions though, and they aren't cheap even before the special frame and they are relatively heavy.

My gravel bike is 2x. 28/42 up front. That's not really supported very well by manufacturers, if at all. I'm resigned to getting the equivalent 1x system, which means I'll go from a 28 32 to a 42 50 or something like that. It will take some getting used to looking at that

I wonder if you moved from Des Moines to Dubuque, you would feel differently about 1x. In Central Pennsylvania, all the roads either go up a mountain or down a mountain. 42-11 is a pretty big gear on gravel unless you somehow find yourself wanting to stay up with a pro peloton. I have won the sprint at the end of the local Wednesday night gravel worlds in my 42-11.

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Old 04-08-21, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I figured the money was too much for me. People buy pinions though, and they aren't cheap even before the special frame and they are relatively heavy.

My gravel bike is 2x. 28/42 up front. That's not really supported very well by manufacturers, if at all. I'm resigned to getting the equivalent 1x system, which means I'll go from a 28 32 to a 42 50 or something like that. It will take some getting used to looking at that

I wonder if you moved from Des Moines to Dubuque, you would feel differently about 1x. In Central Pennsylvania, all the roads either go up a mountain or down a mountain. 42-11 is a pretty big gear on gravel unless you somehow find yourself wanting to stay up with a pro peloton. I have won the sprint at the end of the local Wednesday night gravel worlds in my 42-11.
If I were in DBQ, I would probably adjust, yes. As it is, my drivetrain is different from all my paved road bikes and it would probably change a little more if I were in an area with endless steep short punch hills instead of the more rolling terrain with some short punch hills where I am.
I have 48/32 with an 11-36 right now. Maybe I would change to 46/30 if I were in DBQ? Heck, if Praxis made a 46/30 when I bought my current crank, I would probably have that and an 11-34 cassette.
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Old 04-08-21, 01:33 PM
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Someone translate Des Moines vs Dubuque?
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Old 04-08-21, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fourfa
Someone translate Des Moines vs Dubuque?
Two cities in Iowa. Des Moines is in the center of the state where there are fairly small hills. Dubuque is on the Mississippi river, so there are robust climbs up from the river, fairly decent size hills.
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Old 04-08-21, 02:50 PM
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Love the idea and would definitely buy one on my next bike (if it cost 1/2 of that).
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Old 04-08-21, 05:05 PM
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Yeah cost is an issue as many point out. That is a carbon wheelset though plus the cassette and IGH so maybe that helps somewhat. IGH technologi si pretty well established, but they are not as a manufacturer of it. I do wish there were a hub-only option or an aluminum wheelset. We woild be the first US dealer if we go for it.
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Old 04-08-21, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
This is about the coolest bit of new tech that Ive seen in the last handful of years. Everything else has been 'meh' and quite bluntly most of it seems to just be stuff that is clutter and doesnt really improve a riding experience(at least mine).
I never would figure that I will switch to a 1x for gravel since gravel roads are just unpaved roads and my road bikes are 2x. This though?...I could see this being a possible change.

- The battery lasting 3 months is good and important to highlight.
- The ability to shift under load is neat, though I have never approached a 15% grade in my largest ring so is it super needed?

- $200USD for a different cassette is serious money.
- The cassettes only going up to 34t is limiting. Hopefully a 36t will be added soon.
- $2860 for their wheelsets is bonkers. That will eliminate all but the most willing of early adopters.
- The lack of standalone hub so you can just build your own wheel(or have it built) is a massive drawback.
- Service is a question- how fast will issues be resolved when something breaks or the bluetooth simply doesnt connect? You have a cyclist with a $3000 wheelset that only works in whatever gear ratio it happens to be set on.


It doesnt really do much for me that a 2x doesnt already do though, so if my view is similar to others, the cost may be a big hurdle. If this catches on and comes down to a more accessible price point, I would for sure consider it when I need to change my drivetrain.
I thought so too. Really well thought out implementation of existing technologies. I just wish it used a standard cassette.
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Old 04-09-21, 04:13 PM
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Because dropping chains with 1X over and over again gets old.
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Old 04-10-21, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by shoota
Because dropping chains with 1X over and over again gets old.
I'm not familiar with this issue...can you explain how to make this happen? All jokes aside, a proper 1x shouldn't be dropping chains. Or, am I missing something?
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Old 04-11-21, 08:15 AM
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The concept is brilliant, the execution is seamless, the cost prohibitive for most. I spend a lot of money on bikes but that is two grand I just cannot justify. I still hope they can make a go of it. Innovation is good for the cycling industry.
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Old 04-11-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by blakcloud
The concept is brilliant, the execution is seamless, the cost prohibitive for most. I spend a lot of money on bikes but that is two grand I just cannot justify. I still hope they can make a go of it. Innovation is good for the cycling industry.
If you are building a high-end bike the cost is not that bad as it covers carbon wheel, cassette, front derailleur, allows you to use less expensive 1x shifters, etc. but if you already have all of that it is more of a problem.

Frankly, if this is reliable and they get the cost down enough this could become a common 2x drive system. No wait, Shimano did not patent it so they will crush it out of the market.
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Old 04-11-21, 12:53 PM
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I still have to watch the video, but I skimmed the posts, though itís the title that got me intrigued...is there a way to get two gears instead of a singlespeed so you can have both a high and low gear, though without derailleurs? Would be nice on a winter bike, mainly for roads, with the two gears optimized for average speed/cadence on flat roads, plus a climbing gear.
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Old 04-11-21, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Noonievut
I still have to watch the video, but I skimmed the posts, though itís the title that got me intrigued...is there a way to get two gears instead of a singlespeed so you can have both a high and low gear, though without derailleurs? Would be nice on a winter bike, mainly for roads, with the two gears optimized for average speed/cadence on flat roads, plus a climbing gear.
There are several choices available for 3-speed internal geared hubs, but you wll have to live with the manufacturer;s choice of ratios, and you may have to settle for at least 3 gears. My friend had an IGH 2-speed in the 60s where you briefly tapped the coaster brake to shift between the two ratios, but I have not seen one of those since then. It was probably a Sturmey Archer.
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Old 04-12-21, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger6
I'm not familiar with this issue...can you explain how to make this happen? All jokes aside, a proper 1x shouldn't be dropping chains. Or, am I missing something?
All I have is anecdotal evidence but within my group we have about an even split of 1X and 2X riders. I'd say over the last three years the number of chain drops for the 1X users is close to 4x or 5x as many, at least. Chain stretch, pebbles, mud, washboard.. all contribute to dropped chains. And not only does 1X drop more often but you have to stop to put the chain back on.
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Old 04-12-21, 08:22 AM
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Hmm, fortunately I don't have that problem. Maybe someday I will, but 3 years going, I've dropped a chain exactly once, and it was totally random. Though I run chain rings designed for 1x use and clutched RDs.
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Old 04-12-21, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Badger6
Hmm, fortunately I don't have that problem. Maybe someday I will, but 3 years going, I've dropped a chain exactly once, and it was totally random. Though I run chain rings designed for 1x use and clutched RDs.
So do all of us. It's actually getting to the point that if the group is big enough and the ride long enough, there is almost a 100% chance someone will drop their chain.
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Old 04-12-21, 01:18 PM
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I wonder if there's a difference between 1x11 and 1x12 chain drop rates; do narrower chains bend sideways slightly better?
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Old 04-12-21, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
... My friend had an IGH 2-speed in the 60s where you briefly tapped the coaster brake to shift between the two ratios, but I have not seen one of those since then. It was probably a Sturmey Archer.
The one I had as a kid was Bendix. Two red stripes on the hub. A bunch of bikes of my friends had them back in the 60s.

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Old 04-12-21, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
The one I had as a kid was Bendix. Two red stripes on the hub. A bunch of bikes of my friends had them back in the 60s.
That was it! Must have been a Bendix then. I was too poor to have one back then so I was on a single speed. Who knew I was a cool single speeder before it was so fashionable!
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