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Tired of thinking about Tires!!!

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Tired of thinking about Tires!!!

Old 04-30-21, 06:09 AM
  #26  
dvdslw
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Thanks for all the responses, I guess I'm asking a lot for one tire to do it all but I'm still hopeful to find the right one. I've started to zero in on the Schwalbe G-One Allround in a 45mm casing for the budget choice or take a chance on the Oracle Ridge 48mm tires just to see what all the hype is about. Question still remains to go with a Standard or Light and Supple casing? Here in Central Florida we for the most part have smooth Type 1-2 gravel but some routes get pretty rough with tons of pot holes that you can't always avoid especially in a tightly packed group of riders and some off road singletrack sections with wet grass, standing water, sand, roots, etc... so I really need a tire to handle wherever we happen to go that day. After thinking about it some more, it seems two wheelsets would be ideal, one setup with 28-32's and the other with 45-48's.
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Old 04-30-21, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw View Post
After thinking about it some more, it seems two wheelsets would be ideal, one setup with 28-32's and the other with 45-48's.
This is especially helpful if you plan to run tubeless. I say this as I'm about to swap out a set of tubeless tires today on a bike and somewhat dreading the process and the whole "is this tire losing air?" game.
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Old 04-30-21, 07:01 AM
  #28  
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dvdslw I’d be fascinated to try Oracle Ridge were I in need of such a tire, and will say that based on my experience setting up Herse tires tubeless, if that’s the way you intend to go as well, to be aware you’ll need time and patience, especially with the Extralights. Patience on the order of days and at least a couple of bead removals to add sealant (their sealant has too much particulate to pass through typical syringes). Mine wept through mold release pinholes in the sidewall, and the casing seemed to soak up sealant, but after I accepted what was going on and gave the tires time to cure, they’ve been fine and hold pressure over days pretty well.

For the conditions you describe, I’d say to try the Extralight casing since you don’t have much worry for sidewall abrasion and like to go fast.
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Old 04-30-21, 07:15 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
dvdslw I’d be fascinated to try Oracle Ridge were I in need of such a tire, and will say that based on my experience setting up Herse tires tubeless, if that’s the way you intend to go as well, to be aware you’ll need time and patience, especially with the Extralights. Patience on the order of days and at least a couple of bead removals to add sealant (their sealant has too much particulate to pass through typical syringes). Mine wept through mold release pinholes in the sidewall, and the casing seemed to soak up sealant, but after I accepted what was going on and gave the tires time to cure, they’ve been fine and hold pressure over days pretty well.

For the conditions you describe, I’d say to try the Extralight casing since you don’t have much worry for sidewall abrasion and like to go fast.
Not to muddy things further, but I was unable to get extralights to hold sealant even after adding bucketfulls of sealant and letting them sit flat for extended periods, sloshing sealant around, and following all directions, etc. This seems to not be uncommon with the extralights. Ended up being a warranty claim and a huge headache.

If you don’t want to potentially pull your hair out setting up tubeless, the standard casing is probably fine. Heck, I rode endurance casing for a while and loved them. I even let the sealant dry out and never really worried about them.
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Old 04-30-21, 08:10 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by walnutz View Post
Not to muddy things further, but I was unable to get extralights to hold sealant even after adding bucketfulls of sealant and letting them sit flat for extended periods, sloshing sealant around, and following all directions, etc. This seems to not be uncommon with the extralights. Ended up being a warranty claim and a huge headache.

If you don’t want to potentially pull your hair out setting up tubeless, the standard casing is probably fine. Heck, I rode endurance casing for a while and loved them. I even let the sealant dry out and never really worried about them.
Yeah, I just about lost my ****les setting up the Extralights tubeless, too, and also contacted RH to find out if the tires were supposed to have pinholes in the sidewalls. They avoided addressing the question specifically, but did send a replacement pair. By the time I’d gotten them, though, the installed ones had time to settle in and cure, so I decided to give them a go anyway, and they’ve been fine so far, so I perhaps got lucky in that regard.

I totally agree that ELs are a royal PITA to set up tubeless, but with perserverance and the proper alignment of celestial bodies, they can work out pretty good!

When the time comes for replacement, I’m planning to stick with the Bon Jon Extralights, but run them with Aerothan tubes, which I have on hand, ready to go. Aerothan seem to offer the best of latex and tubeless without the hassles of either, so for tires like RH, Aerothan is probably the hot ticket to existential bliss.

EDIT: hahaha! Why did BF censor g o o b l e s ??!! I thought my family made that word up, but it’s some kind of pejorative epithet?!
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Old 04-30-21, 08:57 AM
  #31  
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Specialized Trigger Pro

Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I get Specialized Trigger Pros or Pathfinder Pros and call it a day.
I recently bought a year-old Diverge with new Specialized Trigger Pro 2Bliss tires mounted. It's a tire I had never considered but, in evaluating tires that might be better, after converting them to tubeless, I'm hard-pressed to find good reasons to switch. intheknowcycling.com has some really excellent tubeless tire reviews and they (he?) called the Specialized Trigger Pro a solid, middle-ground, unremarkable option. Maybe not an amazing tire then but there is also nothing bad about them. Many tires excel in one aspect but also have at least one significant drawback. A tire sitting squarely in the middle ground isn't bad in my mind and I'm very happy with their square-shouldered grip and feel. It's odd to me that more gravel tires don't have a square-shouldered cross-section.

The Specialized Trigger Pros are only 700cx38 though and I can see why someone might prefer a 40-45mm tire instead (or just a tanwall option).
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Old 04-30-21, 12:20 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
This is especially helpful if you plan to run tubeless. I say this as I'm about to swap out a set of tubeless tires today on a bike and somewhat dreading the process and the whole "is this tire losing air?" game.
I run tubeless on road, mtb, and gravel. Only way I wouldn't would be if my wheels were not intended to be that way, otherwise it's the only way ro ride in opinion.
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Old 04-30-21, 01:07 PM
  #33  
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RH Bon Jon extralights have been on my shopping list. This thread has me re-thinking that. I didn't realize there was problems getting them to seal up, or that you had to use RH specific sealant that doesn't work with a syringe.

I might just stick with my 32mm GP5000's.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:11 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
RH Bon Jon extralights have been on my shopping list. This thread has me re-thinking that. I didn't realize there was problems getting them to seal up, or that you had to use RH specific sealant that doesn't work with a syringe.

I might just stick with my 32mm GP5000's.
I wish I could use Conti's on my hookless Zipp wheels but they are a no go because their beads are not strong enough to use without a hook.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:50 AM
  #35  
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Hey for those of us thinking too much about tires, the Gravelking SS is now up on bicyclerollingresistance.com. It is in 3rd place, 2 watts more RR than the Conti Terra Speed and Gravelking slicks. It in turn is ~2 watts less than the GK SK. It isn't exactly apples to apples on the Terra Speeds though, they are 33mm vs 36mm for the GK tires.

It is not too hard to predict these numbers from holding the tire in your hands, if it is supple it will be good. Add 2-6W for knobs depending on how big they are.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:58 AM
  #36  
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Are you guys comfortable with 32s over something like a 35+? I'm 80% pavement/20% hard pack FL type stuff but am looking to venture more on non paved trails. I want the GP5000s but am hoping they will be good for rougher duty. I have the GK Slicks 35c in my stash waiting if I don't go with something else.
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Old 05-02-21, 06:29 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
The 700x37 Herse Bon Jon Pass Extralight casing are set up tubeless on my racy gravel rig, the T-Lab XT-Lab
I think I'm going to pull the trigger on those, they're 35mm though right? The barlow pass is 38? They'll go on a separate wheelset but who knows maybe they'll just stay permo mounted. If that's the case I'd sell one of my 700c wheelsets and get a 650b for long gravel treks.
I ride gravel roads— not trails, not tracks— which, around here, are mostly hardpack but can have loose rock and crushed limestone on the surface, too. Grading happens pretty regularly, too, which turns the surface into an inch-deep churn of limestones, sand, loess, and clay, so you can get a variety of conditions, but mostly hardpack, so speed is king and having tire volume to smooth the potholes, washboard, and other rough stuff is paramount to making speed because traction is a given and rarely a concern.
Thicc. It's finally getting worked back smooth here. I've been riding 40mm Maxxis Velocita slick and they do well in that crude except up steeper grades. I start to miss my Gravel king SKs then. Though I probably should just drop my pressure down abit.

OP: I feel your pain. It's the same for shoes and clothing too it seems, you have to fully purchase and commit before you get a good idea of what works. Though at my LBS the tech mentioned if I didn't like the Maxxis tires within about 50 miles he'd buy them from me.

Like I mentioned up top I have two 700c wheelsets, one for road and then one for gravel. However I really should've gone 650b for the second for my gravel riding. On my bike I can clear only 40mm with 700c but 650b I could do 48mm. I never noticed on my mtb with 2.2"x700c but on my gravel bike I don't think I'd want the extra height you'd get by running that size in 700c. Not really thinking of toe overlap but just over all handling and wheel spin up. 2.1" x 700c just seems massive (in the context of a drop bar bike). I'm 6' and riding a 56cm frame though.
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Old 05-02-21, 07:47 AM
  #38  
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GrainBrain Sorry for the confusion; you are correct that the Bon Jon are 35c. I was probably thinking of their actual width as measured on my 24mm internal Spinergy GX wheels.

Speaking of Spinergy, last week I saw they had ‘20 GXX 650b wheelsets on clearance sale for $500 because they’ve intro’d a new hub for MY21. If I wasn’t jobless, I’d grab a pair for my Breezer and lop off over a pound compared to the stock WTB i23 wheels.
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Old 05-08-21, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Speaking of Spinergy, last week I saw they had ‘20 GXX 650b wheelsets on clearance sale for $500 because they’ve intro’d a new hub for MY21. If I wasn’t jobless, I’d grab a pair for my Breezer and lop off over a pound compared to the stock WTB i23 wheels.
Are you sure it was the GXX (carbon) wheels on sale? Spinergy has been discounting NOS 2020 650b GX MAX (28 spoke) wheelsets. But you don’t get free shipping nor a free wheel bag with that discount. Instead, I went with the lighter 2021 GX wheelset in 700c size (includes free shipping and a free, nice-quality double wheel bag plus custom spoke colors if desired).

Last edited by Motorazr; 05-09-21 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 05-08-21, 02:00 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Motorazr View Post
Are you sure it was the GXX (carbon) wheels on sale? Spinergy has been discounting NOS 2020 650b GX Max (28 spoke) wheelsets. But you don’t get free shipping nor a free wheel bag with that discount. Instead, I went with the lighter 2021 GX wheelset in 700c size (includes free shipping and a free, nice-quality double wheel bag plus custom spoke colors if desired).
No, I made a mistake; it was the GX Max. Thanks for the correction.
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Old 05-08-21, 04:48 PM
  #41  
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I recently switched from tube 700x40 Donnelly X'Plor MSO to tubeless Renee Herse Oracle Ridge 700x48 (standard casing) and am very happy with the new tires. I'm not a fast rider so cannot comment on speed, but the wider tires combined with tubeless certainly lends itself to a more comfortable ride on gravel.
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Old 05-08-21, 07:29 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by scottfsmith View Post
Hey for those of us thinking too much about tires, the Gravelking SS is now up on bicyclerollingresistance.com. It is in 3rd place, 2 watts more RR than the Conti Terra Speed and Gravelking slicks. It in turn is ~2 watts less than the GK SK. It isn't exactly apples to apples on the Terra Speeds though, they are 33mm vs 36mm for the GK tires.

It is not too hard to predict these numbers from holding the tire in your hands, if it is supple it will be good. Add 2-6W for knobs depending on how big they are.
That guy kills me with what he calls gravel tire width.
It's obviously a wide range, but there isnalao obviously a narrowed current popular sweetspot of 38-43mm.
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Old 05-09-21, 07:39 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
That guy kills me with what he calls gravel tire width.
It's obviously a wide range, but there isnalao obviously a narrowed current popular sweetspot of 38-43mm.
Some of the test on that site are a few years old, and it was only a few years ago that 35c was considered normal for a gravel tire.
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Old 05-09-21, 08:46 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by zen_ View Post
Some of the test on that site are a few years old, and it was only a few years ago that 35c was considered normal for a gravel tire.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...gravel-reviews
All the tests show as 2020 or 2021.

Regardless of if they are new or old, ​​​40mm +/- a couple mm isn't really some new revolutionary gravel tire size though.
GK SK in 40mm that measured to 43 for many have been around for over 5 years.
Clement XPLOR MSO in 40mm were introduced 10 years ago.
WTB Resolute in 42mm is 4 years old at least, and other larger cased WTB tires are older.

38-40 seems like a sweetspot for intentional builds(vs cobbled together ones) for years now. And 40-45mm have become more popular in the last 4 years.
So 38-43mm is very much a popular size range.

It seems that when comparing rolling resistance, weight, tread, etc- tires in a category will be similar. A 33mm isn't at all similar to a 42mm.

But its his site and his time. Without his site we would have even less into and have to rely on marketing speak even more.
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Old 05-09-21, 01:02 PM
  #45  
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I didn't notice the date column on the main list, but I thought it was only last year that the category was changed to cx + gravel, and that before it was just cx (regulation width obviously).

My comment about a few years ago stems from looking at hundreds of parked bikes at gravel events in 2019 when I was trying to figure out my own equipment, and at that time 32-35c was the most popular. We know now that in most situations that isn't optimal, but things always change slowly in cycling. I thought using a 40c tire at the time was huge, and have also gone up another size this year.
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Old 05-09-21, 06:35 PM
  #46  
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I use both the Herse Extra Lights and the Standard casing. The additional cost of the extra lights is not worth it in my opinion as the standard casing is fantastic. I have used Orange Seal in them for years and have had no problem with then seating or sealing quickly. They do not hold air as long as the Schwalbe G-Ones do, but I do not have a problem topping them up every few days. If you are worried at all, the G-Ones are great tires too and they are a bit more durable and hold air better if that matters to you. You cannot go wrong either way, but the G-Ones are less fiddling if you are new to this.
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Old 05-09-21, 08:14 PM
  #47  
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Tomorrow I am going on my maiden voyage on Rene Herse Bon Jon Pas which measure out to 37 on my rims. These ones are the endurance casing.

I have done this route with the 650 x 42 Rene Herse tires and Grand Bois Hetres and they were fine. I also have a pair of Grand Boise Ecureuil tires that are 650 x 38's that weigh in at 240 grams!

Yes, there are lots of choices out there and that can only be a good thing for the consumer. We all have different needs, different kinds of gravel and different types of bikes that may limit the size of tires we can use and different budgets. We have never had is so good.
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Old 05-16-21, 05:02 PM
  #48  
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I didn't think about tires that much, and I thought I was all set, then I actually road my bikes and started having a tire dilemma again. I have my Giant Toughroad running 650b, my Kona Kahuna in drop bar 29er form, my DB Sync'r trail hardtail, and I bought new tires for all 3 lol.

I bought lighter trail tires for the Sync'r, and I decided to specialize my other two bikes by making the Kahuna the main "gravel bike", and the Toughroad a "Road Plus" bike. Mind you I did all this b/c I did a 28 mi. group ride with the Toughroad running 27.5 x 2.1 Mezcals where I was clearly under-biked compared to everyone else running 700c x 28-38mm tires. Since I couldn't afford to just buy a new 700c wheelset, I took that money and split it between the three bikes to get the most capable tires for their intended use.

So for the Sync'r I got 27.5 x 2.6 Spesh Eliminator GRID tires. They were on sale - and muuuuuch lighter than my black diamond 2.8 Butchers. Since I'm not as heavy as I used to be, and I'm not going to Whistler Bike Park anytime within the next 5 years, I have no need for such a heavy tire like that.

Now the Kahuna - I wanted this to be my drop-bar XC hardtail and I intended on keeping a 29 x 2.25-2.3 tire on this, but the rims being 22mm internal width, I wanted wider rims to support those tires. Again, it would cost me a lot to get the wheels I'd like in this instance, so optimizing the tire to the rim made more sense to me. I think I can get away with running lighter "gravel" tires on this bike instead of full blown XC/Trail tires since I have a trail-oriented bike, so I got 700c x 42mm WTB Resolutes.

Lastly, the Toughroad. Me riding this bike to failure with Vittoria Mezcals on a predominantly road group ride started this whole search for new tires. I was hoping to keep this bike set up to work well on the road but be capable off-road, then I remembered the entire reason I had the Kona built was to replace the Toughroad in that regard. Mainly because I do not like running the Toughroad with 700c wheels due to toe overlap (if I were running the 42's). I bought the lowest rolling resistance gravel tires (as recorded by bicyclerollingresistance.com) - that I could afford. This being the Panaracer GK Slicks but in 650b x 48mm to match my rim. It's still wide and doesn't have the same aero or rollover benefits as a 700c with similar diameter, but hopefully the combined reduction in rolling resistance, and my improved fitness over time, will lead to less likelihood of me getting destroyed running these as a primarily road tire.

(SIDENOTE: So I thought I had the TNT G+ 1.0 version of the Mezcals which was shown to have 21.6 Watts of RR, but I actually have the OLDER ones which have 28.4 Watts of RR.)

I hope I don't have to think about tires ever again for at LEAST another year after all the time I wasted looking up tires in the past 2 days.....
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Old 05-17-21, 05:32 AM
  #49  
dvdslw
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Well I finally pulled the trigger yesterday and went with a set of 700x47mm Teravail Rutlands. These tires seem to get great reviews and on paper are exactly what I'm looking for in a tire. Large volume, decent tread pattern that rolls well, not too heavy, and priced right @ $50ea. I should have them Friday and will chime back in after I get a chance to ride them.
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Old 05-20-21, 07:05 PM
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Okay - I lied. I decided to get some Conti Race King Protection 29 x 2.2 for my XC bike and I plan on comparing how those ride to the WTB Resolutes.

I keep seeing how XC MTB tires can roll faster than gravel tires, but I keep wondering how much aero drag and added rotational weight play a factor. Guess I'll just have to find out for myself...
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