Why 1x?
06-11-21, 10:03 AM
#26
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Yep. I'd say a standard gravel rig has a 1x setup, but doesn't mean a bike with a double ISN'T a gravel bike.
We can still have non-standard gravel bikes also, like one with a triple and 30mm tires, or one with 1x12, 3" 650b tires and a dropper.
We can still have non-standard gravel bikes also, like one with a triple and 30mm tires, or one with 1x12, 3" 650b tires and a dropper.
06-11-21, 10:31 AM
#27
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Hmm. Maybe I should explain how words work.
By-and-large is an adverbial phrase that means "when everything about a situation is considered together."
Adopt is a verb that means "to take up, follow, or use."
Standard is an adjective that means "a pattern or model that is generally accepted."
So we can accurately reword the sentence, "Gravel bikes have by-and-large adopted the 1X as standard" as "Gravel bikes, when everything is considered, have taken up the 1X as a model that is generally accepted."
I don't really see how you can argue that this isn't true, much less assert that I said “all gravel bikes are 1X.”
Here's a helpful link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/
By-and-large is an adverbial phrase that means "when everything about a situation is considered together."
Adopt is a verb that means "to take up, follow, or use."
Standard is an adjective that means "a pattern or model that is generally accepted."
So we can accurately reword the sentence, "Gravel bikes have by-and-large adopted the 1X as standard" as "Gravel bikes, when everything is considered, have taken up the 1X as a model that is generally accepted."
I don't really see how you can argue that this isn't true, much less assert that I said “all gravel bikes are 1X.”
Here's a helpful link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/
Right now there are still more 2x being offered by manufacturers than 1x. I do not think 1x is an actual standard ... yet.
I do not think it will become standard. Neither the 650b or 700c wheels. I suspect, due to the wide range of what one may consider to be or not be 'gravel,' standards will not ever be very rigid. I think instead, BOTH will be standard choices and that the options to do either will be the standard.
And to the user claiming weight is a red herring: 1x is significantly less weight. Sure, add the larger cassette weight but then consider no cable, no shifter, and only one chain ring. 1x is absolutely a weight saver.
06-11-21, 10:40 AM
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Hmm. Maybe I should explain how words work.
By-and-large is an adverbial phrase that means "when everything about a situation is considered together."
Adopt is a verb that means "to take up, follow, or use."
Standard is an adjective that means "a pattern or model that is generally accepted."
So we can accurately reword the sentence, "Gravel bikes have by-and-large adopted the 1X as standard" as "Gravel bikes, when everything is considered, have taken up the 1X as a model that is generally accepted."
I don't really see how you can argue that this isn't true, much less assert that I said “all gravel bikes are 1X.”
Here's a helpful link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/
By-and-large is an adverbial phrase that means "when everything about a situation is considered together."
Adopt is a verb that means "to take up, follow, or use."
Standard is an adjective that means "a pattern or model that is generally accepted."
So we can accurately reword the sentence, "Gravel bikes have by-and-large adopted the 1X as standard" as "Gravel bikes, when everything is considered, have taken up the 1X as a model that is generally accepted."
I don't really see how you can argue that this isn't true, much less assert that I said “all gravel bikes are 1X.”
Here's a helpful link: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/
06-11-21, 10:45 AM
#29
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https://www.specialized.com/US/en/sh...er:group:Bikes
06-11-21, 12:33 PM
#30
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Specialized only offers 2x on 1/3 of its gravel range. Not sure if they're running more or less 1x than other big brands
https://www.specialized.com/US/en/sh...er:group:Bikes
https://www.specialized.com/US/en/sh...er:group:Bikes
The majority of gravel bikes being sold are still 2x and it ain't going bye-bye anytime in the near future, especially as the gravel genre is now being flooded with n00bs.
Big fan here of 1x and I find it useful for some events and rides and 2x better for others. N+1 Gravel bikes here.
06-11-21, 01:04 PM
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As this thread shows though, words are fun and what you think is significant may not be significant to me.
GRX 810 series 2x vs 1x
crankset- 40t is 644g and 48/31 is 710g. 1x is 66g lighter
fd weighs 94g.
cassette- m8000 11-42 is 434g and hg800 is 337g. 2x is 97g lighter.
shifters are the same.
rd is the same.
fd cable is 9g.
fd housing is 50g.
So 1x is 122g lighter, which is 4oz.
It continues to confuse me why the weight savings of 1x is pushed as a narrative when it is so insignificant. This is especially true when its considered for gravel where many carry trendy handlebar bags that are heavy, ride relatively heavy tires, ride steel frames(me being one), and spec their bikes with dropper posts.
06-11-21, 01:16 PM
#32
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@ mstatagllfr:
I have zero inclination to follow any trends such as the ones you mentioned. My own savings from switching from 2x to 1x on a specific bike were closer to 275g and yet I never claimed weight was a primary benefit, only that it is an actual benefit, as you just proved.
The main narrative, which I addressed in previous blatherings, is that it allows for different geometries (which allows for lighter builds!), eliminates issues such as cross chaining and bad chain lines, and in general makes things simpler for rider and mechanic. It's not just a matter of swapping from 2x to 1x on the same bike ... it's about how a newer bike can be designed to exploit the space of a 1x instead of a 2x.
YMMV
I'm a fan of all options and allowing everyone to mix and match as they see fit.
I have zero inclination to follow any trends such as the ones you mentioned. My own savings from switching from 2x to 1x on a specific bike were closer to 275g and yet I never claimed weight was a primary benefit, only that it is an actual benefit, as you just proved.
The main narrative, which I addressed in previous blatherings, is that it allows for different geometries (which allows for lighter builds!), eliminates issues such as cross chaining and bad chain lines, and in general makes things simpler for rider and mechanic. It's not just a matter of swapping from 2x to 1x on the same bike ... it's about how a newer bike can be designed to exploit the space of a 1x instead of a 2x.
YMMV
I'm a fan of all options and allowing everyone to mix and match as they see fit.
Last edited by Cpn_Dunsel; 06-11-21 at 01:20 PM.
06-11-21, 02:18 PM
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06-11-21, 02:35 PM
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Like at Trek, if you click on gravel, they show you all the Domanes, which you could ride gravel on but I dont think I'd call em gravel bikes.
Specialized is the easiest site to find gravel bikes, and eliminate eBikes from your search.
06-11-21, 03:33 PM
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I mean, yeah hangin out in 10 wears the chain...maybe those folks need to embrace their power and get a bigger chainring. I did. 46t. Fixed that real quick. Honestly I'd have probably gone to a 48, but it was getting silly at that point.
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06-11-21, 03:38 PM
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But actual weighing of compnents has shown it to not be significantly less weight.
As this thread shows though, words are fun and what you think is significant may not be significant to me.
GRX 810 series 2x vs 1x
crankset- 40t is 644g and 48/31 is 710g. 1x is 66g lighter
fd weighs 94g.
cassette- m8000 11-42 is 434g and hg800 is 337g. 2x is 97g lighter.
shifters are the same.
rd is the same.
fd cable is 9g.
fd housing is 50g.
So 1x is 122g lighter, which is 4oz.
It continues to confuse me why the weight savings of 1x is pushed as a narrative when it is so insignificant. This is especially true when its considered for gravel where many carry trendy handlebar bags that are heavy, ride relatively heavy tires, ride steel frames(me being one), and spec their bikes with dropper posts.
As this thread shows though, words are fun and what you think is significant may not be significant to me.
GRX 810 series 2x vs 1x
crankset- 40t is 644g and 48/31 is 710g. 1x is 66g lighter
fd weighs 94g.
cassette- m8000 11-42 is 434g and hg800 is 337g. 2x is 97g lighter.
shifters are the same.
rd is the same.
fd cable is 9g.
fd housing is 50g.
So 1x is 122g lighter, which is 4oz.
It continues to confuse me why the weight savings of 1x is pushed as a narrative when it is so insignificant. This is especially true when its considered for gravel where many carry trendy handlebar bags that are heavy, ride relatively heavy tires, ride steel frames(me being one), and spec their bikes with dropper posts.
I just use a roadbike for gravel personally. 3x9, 30mm tires, caliper brakes, only 22 lbs. For slightly rougher gravel I have a couple of 24lb XC hardtails to choose from.
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06-11-21, 09:09 PM
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I am all in on 1x on my mtbs, but 1x simply does not have enough gears to give me the range and gear spacing I want for a gravel bike.
Thing about a gravel bike is that anywhere I have lived, most gravel rides include a bit of pavement as well.
Thing about a gravel bike is that anywhere I have lived, most gravel rides include a bit of pavement as well.
06-12-21, 09:25 AM
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One issue that discussion almost every “which is better for a gravel bike” discussion runs into (including 1x) is that “Gravel Bike” can mean everything from road bikes with wide tires to drop bar mtbs.
These two extremes are very different in terms of what kind of gearing is needed, and also the frame design issues that 2x can run into.
For bikes that don’t need massive tire clearance 1x is not really gaining you anything in terms of frame design possibilities. My gravel frame can clear a 43, and has a 425mm chain stays, and there is way more than enough room to accommodate a 50/34 crank.
These two extremes are very different in terms of what kind of gearing is needed, and also the frame design issues that 2x can run into.
For bikes that don’t need massive tire clearance 1x is not really gaining you anything in terms of frame design possibilities. My gravel frame can clear a 43, and has a 425mm chain stays, and there is way more than enough room to accommodate a 50/34 crank.
06-12-21, 09:51 AM
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One issue that discussion almost every “which is better for a gravel bike” discussion runs into (including 1x) is that “Gravel Bike” can mean everything from road bikes with wide tires to drop bar mtbs.
These two extremes are very different in terms of what kind of gearing is needed, and also the frame design issues that 2x can run into.
For bikes that don’t need massive tire clearance 1x is not really gaining you anything in terms of frame design possibilities. My gravel frame can clear a 43, and has a 425mm chain stays, and there is way more than enough room to accommodate a 50/34 crank.
These two extremes are very different in terms of what kind of gearing is needed, and also the frame design issues that 2x can run into.
For bikes that don’t need massive tire clearance 1x is not really gaining you anything in terms of frame design possibilities. My gravel frame can clear a 43, and has a 425mm chain stays, and there is way more than enough room to accommodate a 50/34 crank.
06-12-21, 02:36 PM
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I don't race (or even ride very fast) but I like to look at what racers use because racing provides a nice test of technology. In this year's Unbound (formerly Dirty Kanza) race the leaders used both 1x and 2x - no clear "winner" on how many chainrings is best.
06-12-21, 02:56 PM
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I don't race (or even ride very fast) but I like to look at what racers use because racing provides a nice test of technology. In this year's Unbound (formerly Dirty Kanza) race the leaders used both 1x and 2x - no clear "winner" on how many chainrings is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GQU1gcotA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GQU1gcotA
Here's a bike check from the winner of the Unbound XL (350 mile course). Sorry it's a FB link, I'd hoped they had a youtube up but couldn't find it at Pivot's youtube.
https://fb.watch/64S0hg5kSI/
06-12-21, 04:20 PM
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I like not having to tinker with a front derailleur. Most of my gravel rides are mostly gravel and the limited paved areas I’m happy to have a bit of a breather.
06-12-21, 05:22 PM
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06-12-21, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets;[url=tel:22099448
22099448[/url]]I'd probably be OK in Tampa with an 11-42, maybe even 40
06-13-21, 05:17 AM
#45
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So I can crank up my ear buds and not have to wonder if my chain is rubbing on the front derailleur.
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06-13-21, 05:46 AM
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Gravel bike + MTB - 1x all the way. Sometimes amateur racing on MTB, gravel bike just for fast rides. Few years ago I have tried 1x and never looked back. I'm fan of simplicity of the bike so I don't ever want to see front derailleur again
1x for me = lower weight, less cabeling madness, better maintenance and washing, better looks, less garbage to catch mud on.
1x for me = lower weight, less cabeling madness, better maintenance and washing, better looks, less garbage to catch mud on.
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06-16-21, 07:52 AM
#47
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25 years of being a roadie.
Currently have 2 road bikes, both double. A gravel bike built frame up as a 1x. And a MTB that started with a triple that’s been changed to 1x.
1x seems to fit best where you need big climbing gears and downhill speed just isn’t that fast - due to terrain, obstacles, switchbacks, etc.
Ill go 50+ on the road bike on a good descent. At the same time, a big climb is like 2500’ in 10 miles. On the gravel stuff (or MTB) I’ll climb much steeper stuff (though rarely as long) and it’s pretty rare to push above 35mph down without dying.
Location, style, and even the number of bikes in your garage could change your opinions on what you prefer.
Currently have 2 road bikes, both double. A gravel bike built frame up as a 1x. And a MTB that started with a triple that’s been changed to 1x.
1x seems to fit best where you need big climbing gears and downhill speed just isn’t that fast - due to terrain, obstacles, switchbacks, etc.
Ill go 50+ on the road bike on a good descent. At the same time, a big climb is like 2500’ in 10 miles. On the gravel stuff (or MTB) I’ll climb much steeper stuff (though rarely as long) and it’s pretty rare to push above 35mph down without dying.
Location, style, and even the number of bikes in your garage could change your opinions on what you prefer.
06-16-21, 08:29 AM
#48
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I don't race (or even ride very fast) but I like to look at what racers use because racing provides a nice test of technology. In this year's Unbound (formerly Dirty Kanza) race the leaders used both 1x and 2x - no clear "winner" on how many chainrings is best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GQU1gcotA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GQU1gcotA
06-16-21, 09:26 AM
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It took a 30 year old Rock Combo paint scheme to make me want something Big S.
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06-16-21, 09:48 AM
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I have a 1992 Specialized Sequoia frameset that I keep thinking I should build up. The paint job is a bit boring, but it's essentially a stumpjumper frame where they moved the cantilever posts to fit 700c tires and added a seatpost mount to run a generator light. If they'd made accomodations for wider tires instead of essentially keeping the mtb geometry so that it now only fits ~32's with fenders (due to the bigger wheel diameter in the same sized triangle), I'd have said it was ahead of its time. Instead it was had a 1-2 year run as a flatbar commuter bike that no one bought. If it weren't too small for me, I'd have built it up by now, but I like the idea enough that I have a hard time selling it. I like the looks of some of the old screwed and glued lugged carbon Epic Comps, but I don't know that I'd trust them enough to want to ride them these days. Other than that, my interest in Specialized is very limited at best.
