Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Why 1x?

Old 06-16-21, 10:26 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863

Bikes: too many of all kinds

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times in 335 Posts
I mean, yeah hangin out in 10 wears the chain...maybe those folks need to embrace their power and get a bigger chainring. I did. 46t. Fixed that real quick. Honestly I'd have probably gone to a 48, but it was getting silly at that point.
That is rather my point. At that point, 2x makes more sense than 1x.
I do laugh when MTB switch out their chain rings and I hear them debating what size ring to use that weekend. I haven't heard that in my gravel circles - likely because people in that delima just get 2x - and the one's that are not bothered by it get 1x.


[QUOTE=tyrion;22099256]I don't race (or even ride very fast) but I like to look at what racers use because racing provides a nice test of technology. In this year's Unbound (formerly Dirty Kanza) race the leaders used both 1x and 2x - no clear "winner" on how many chainrings is best.

Yeah, its a bit different in an endurance race, isn't it? If I wasn't doing a bit of sprinting or really pushing it in the 30-40mph range, 1x would be fine (assuming the cadence issue didn't bother me). There is no real downside for 2x though. If I'm doing this type of endurance race, I'm in the small chain ring. If I'm doing a shorter faster ride with a lot of surges and sprinting, I'm in the larger chain ring. Nice to have a choice. But of course, not everyone need that flexibility.

Last edited by chas58; 06-16-21 at 10:31 AM.
chas58 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 10:36 AM
  #52  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,588 Times in 2,452 Posts
I saw a picture of the finish of unbound so I thought there might have been a sprint. There was, if you count 20mph as a sprint.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 10:38 AM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863

Bikes: too many of all kinds

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times in 335 Posts
I have zero inclination to follow any trends such as the ones you mentioned. My own savings from switching from 2x to 1x on a specific bike were closer to 275g and yet I never claimed weight was a primary benefit, only that it is an actual benefit, as you just proved.

The main narrative, which I addressed in previous blatherings, is that it allows for different geometries (which allows for lighter builds!), eliminates issues such as cross chaining and bad chain lines, and in general makes things simpler for rider and mechanic. It's not just a matter of swapping from 2x to 1x on the same bike ... it's about how a newer bike can be designed to exploit the space of a 1x instead of a 2x.

YMMV

I'm a fan of all options and allowing everyone to mix and match as they see fit.
That is a good summary. If you need the the variety of gears and range and cadence, 2x is good.
If you need frame geometry options (i.e. on a full suspension MTB, or want to go above 40mm on a gravel bike) then 1x has some strong benefits.

Weight isn't really an issue (my bike was heavier in its 1x build)
Maintenance wise - you are going to have more cassette, chain ring, and chain maintenance (and need a more expensive clutch derailleur) on 1x, so I'm not sold that it is always less maintenance.

1x is clearly easier for beginners, but ironically entry level bikes are the last to get it.
chas58 is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 10:42 AM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,549

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
I saw a picture of the finish of unbound so I thought there might have been a sprint. There was, if you count 20mph as a sprint.
Men's race ended in a slow sprint that both guys admitted was not a very fast sprint. Women's race ended in a 20-mile breakaway.

The first year I did it in 2015 the men's winner came back from a 17-mile gap and the race ended in a sprint. At the time it was a big deal because the finish was never that close and the idea of sprinting after 200 miles was nuts. But now that the pros are showing up I think it's probably going to be pretty common.

Looking at what the contenders ride is fun but I'm not sure how much it tells you other than fast people are fast no matter what they ride. Ted King won on a Cannondale Slate one year, but he was going to win that year no matter what. I think he won on a Cannondale Topstone the next year IIRC. But the publicity wasn't enough to keep Cannondale from discontinuing the Slate, I guess.
ksryder is offline  
Old 06-16-21, 02:30 PM
  #55  
I like bike
 
scottfsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Merry Land USA
Posts: 662

Bikes: Roubaix Comp 2020

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked 283 Times in 191 Posts
Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel
.. eliminates issues such as cross chaining and bad chain lines..
While it is true that in the worst case the cross-chaining is worse on a 2x, if you have something like Shimano's Synchro Shift (or do similar manual shifting patterns) won't you overall have better chain alignment in 2x? In the big ring you will be on the smaller tooth gears in the back and the reverse for the small front ring. So each of the front rings have a narrower set of cassette gears they need to work well in, which also aligns with the side they sit on up front .. so, better chain alignment on average than trying to reach all the cassette gears from the same front ring.

I don't have any 1x and don't know much about it so maybe there is something I am missing here.
scottfsmith is offline  
Likes For scottfsmith:
Old 06-17-21, 08:06 AM
  #56  
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,175

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2745 Post(s)
Liked 2,508 Times in 1,419 Posts
Originally Posted by chas58
I do laugh when MTB switch out their chain rings and I hear them debating what size ring to use that weekend. I haven't heard that in my gravel circles - likely because people in that delima just get 2x - and the one's that are not bothered by it get 1x.
.
Um, no. That’s not actually a thing. I have never known someone with 1x that bothers to swap rings for a weekend. And I know a LOT of mountain bikers.

It might happen for some particular racing formats, but you see the same thing in pro road races where they are using 2x. Though usually cassettes rather than rings.

Think about it, modern 1x12 mtbs have a ~500% range. That is the same range as a 30/46 crank with an 11-36 cassette

Last edited by Kapusta; 06-17-21 at 08:50 AM.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 06-17-21, 02:00 PM
  #57  
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,863

Bikes: too many of all kinds

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times in 335 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
Um, no. Thatís not actually a thing. I have never known someone with 1x that bothers to swap rings for a weekend. And I know a LOT of mountain bikers.

It might happen for some particular racing formats, but you see the same thing in pro road races where they are using 2x. Though usually cassettes rather than rings.

Think about it, modern 1x12 mtbs have a ~500% range. That is the same range as a 30/46 crank with an 11-36 cassette
Funny guy. I understand that your experience is more limited than mine. That is why we share our varied experiences here. :-)
chas58 is offline  
Old 06-18-21, 02:44 AM
  #58  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,337
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times in 395 Posts
I was always skeptical of 1x in general. Then a year ago I bought a new MTB with an SLX 1x group and an 11-46 XT cassette and I loved it as soon as I started pedaling. I was actually more skeptical of the gear range for a mountain bike than anything else because of all the elevation changes and steep hills I don't get on the road. But it's been no problem. I love that there's no chain slap or dealing with getting a FD tuned so that you never have chain rub. And it's amazing how it's even so much easier to clean the drivetrain.

I have a disc road bike with 105 and I'm considering upgrading to a Force 1. I'd have no problem with it on a gravel bike.
Lazyass is offline  
Old 06-18-21, 04:23 AM
  #59  
Full Member
 
Hmmm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 399

Bikes: TCX & CAAD3 SAECO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 66 Posts
Can we all agree that both are amazing and that we are beyond privileged to even have an opinion on the matter?
Hmmm is offline  
Likes For Hmmm:
Old 06-22-21, 06:50 AM
  #60  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by Hmmm
Can we all agree that both are amazing and that we are beyond privileged to even have an opinion on the matter?
Sure.
Badger6 is offline  
Likes For Badger6:
Old 06-22-21, 06:51 AM
  #61  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyass
I have a disc road bike with 105 and I'm considering upgrading to a Force 1. I'd have no problem with it on a gravel bike.
Strongly recommend against it on a road bike for all the reasons listed above...primary being the spacing of the gears will leave you hunting for the right gear in nearly all instances.
Badger6 is offline  
Old 06-22-21, 07:19 AM
  #62  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
Um, no. Thatís not actually a thing. I have never known someone with 1x that bothers to swap rings for a weekend. And I know a LOT of mountain bikers.
It is....I do it. It takes 15 minutes because I clean everything really well since my chainring is also attaching to a powermeter.
Badger6 is offline  
Likes For Badger6:
Old 06-22-21, 07:23 AM
  #63  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by himespau
Other than that, my interest in Specialized is very limited at best.
That's too bad, because their newer stuff's the business...other than their crazy SCS rear hubs for two years.
Badger6 is offline  
Likes For Badger6:
Old 06-22-21, 08:39 AM
  #64  
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,523
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4161 Post(s)
Liked 2,881 Times in 1,759 Posts
I'm just lazy and ride a triple. When I'm out on the road, I spend most of my time in my middle (42) ring and, when I get to the second smallest cog on the back, switch to my 53 if I want harder. Similarly, when I get to my second largest cog, I switch to my 30 if I want easier. So I only really use 12-14 out of my 30 possible gears most of the time (hills where I've switched to the little ring early because I know I'll need it or segments where I'm sprinting and start out easier in the big ring are exceptions). Electronic shifting isn't in my budget, but I could totally see the value in a system that you just shifted up or down and it would calculate which derailleur to use (or both) depending on how far you'd pushed the lever (I use campagnolo) and skipping overlapping combinations. For someone lazy like me, I could see the appeal of 1x. I like the options of having more combinations (like using the biggest 8-9 on back in my little ring for hills or shifting through the littlest 5 on my big ring when I'm doing intervals or trying to get a PR on a specific kilometer segement), so I wouldn't go that route, but I see the appeal.
himespau is offline  
Old 06-22-21, 08:53 AM
  #65  
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,175

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2745 Post(s)
Liked 2,508 Times in 1,419 Posts
Originally Posted by Badger6
It is....I do it. It takes 15 minutes because I clean everything really well since my chainring is also attaching to a powermeter.
Well Chas58 is having a good laugh at you.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 06-22-21, 10:24 AM
  #66  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,196

Bikes: 2017 Raleigh RX 1.0, 2018 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 630 Times in 335 Posts
My CX bike is 2x11 sram, For the most part I like having a 46/36 crankset and having gearing choices when I'm on the road. In CX race scenarios, though, I don't use the 46 that much and in the 2019 season an apparent bent 46 chainring caused some untimely chain drops in a couple of my races (I have chain catcher but that apparently didn't help!). While I'm not rushing out to get a 1x crankset, I think something in between 46 and 36 would work out well for racing purposes. Removing potential problem points, especially in competition where a wider range of gearing isn't totally needed, definitely has appeal to me
hubcyclist is offline  
Old 06-22-21, 12:01 PM
  #67  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
Well Chas58 is having a good laugh at you.
He might be...but while he was amusing himself, I was all over the Schwarzwald. This weekend, I'll be straddling the border between the Ardennes Forest and the Eiffel Naturpark. I won't be able to hear it.
Badger6 is offline  
Likes For Badger6:
Old 06-23-21, 02:26 AM
  #68  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,337
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times in 395 Posts
Originally Posted by Badger6
Strongly recommend against it on a road bike for all the reasons listed above...primary being the spacing of the gears will leave you hunting for the right gear in nearly all instances.
The reason I'd have no problem with it is I don't have any serious climbs where I live. After I got into single speed bikes a few years ago I started riding my geared bikes in the big ring all the time. Now I've switched from a standard to a compact crank and I ride in the 50T 100% of the time, I don't even go into the small ring when I stop. I still almost never have to shift into the 28.

However, I do drive out to the mountains a few times a year and a 34T is good for those roads. So I doubt I'll actually get a 1x, I'm leaning toward the Force 22.
Lazyass is offline  
Likes For Lazyass:
Old 06-24-21, 01:37 AM
  #69  
Full Member
 
Hmmm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 399

Bikes: TCX & CAAD3 SAECO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 66 Posts
Originally Posted by Badger6
Strongly recommend against it on a road bike for all the reasons listed above...primary being the spacing of the gears will leave you hunting for the right gear in nearly all instances.
I rode 1x for 2 years on my 'cross bike with road tires on it. There was one cog jump in the middle of the cassette that seemed a little big but after a few rides I didn't notice it. Once on a very fast group ride I ran out of gears on a corner descent.

Other than that I was pleasantly surprised with 1x on the road. It was great.
Hmmm is offline  
Likes For Hmmm:
Old 06-24-21, 01:46 AM
  #70  
Obsessed with Eddington
 
Badger6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brussels (BE) 🇧🇪
Posts: 1,330

Bikes: '16 Spesh Diverge, '14 Spesh Fatboy, '18 Spesh Epic, '18 Spesh SL6, '21 Spesh SL7, '21 Spesh Diverge...and maybe n+1?

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked 621 Times in 368 Posts
Originally Posted by Hmmm
I rode 1x for 2 years on my 'cross bike with road tires on it. There was one cog jump in the middle of the cassette that seemed a little big but after a few rides I didn't notice it. Once on a very fast group ride I ran out of gears on a corner descent.

Other than that I was pleasantly surprised with 1x on the road. It was great.
My advise against is not that it won't work, because it definitely will. When I ride road, it is about 50% solo training rides and 50% group. When training, I could care less about my speed, all I care about are power targets. But, in a group, speed matching is critical, and for me, the jumps in the middle make doing that pretty difficult without also continually changing my cadence. Purely my opinion based on personal experience.
Badger6 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.