Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Cantilever brake pad length

Old 09-17-21, 07:40 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 171

Bikes: Peugeot PR-10, Peugeot UO-8, Boeris racing bike, AMF Roadmaster Renegade, Gitane Gypsy Sport, various Schwinn muscle bikes, Schwinn Super Sport, Panasonic DX-4000, Palo Alto Campy equipped bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Cantilever brake pad length

I replaced the cantilevers on an old cross bike I'm re-building with some Radius brand ones. They came with very long 70mm brake pads which look like they would have to ride partly inside the fork blades and seat stays since they are too long to clear them. This means when the brakes are released to remove a wheel the cantilevers would be caught by the inside of the blades/stays rather than being able to flop all the way open like the original ones on the bike did which had shorter 50mm pads. Is this the ideal set-up for this type of bike or is it better to have the shorter 50mm pads so the cantilevers can open all the way up when they are released? The concern I have running longer pads inside the fork blades and seat stays is that when released to remove a wheel the tires wouldn't clear them since they are so wide (38mm). Also installing the pads would be a major pain since they would have to be installed after the brakes were already set to an approximate position which seem like a lot of trial and error.

Thanks for any insight into this.
taguy4 is offline  
Old 09-17-21, 08:19 PM
  #2  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,749 Times in 2,552 Posts
You are better off with shorter pads.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-17-21, 08:46 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 171

Bikes: Peugeot PR-10, Peugeot UO-8, Boeris racing bike, AMF Roadmaster Renegade, Gitane Gypsy Sport, various Schwinn muscle bikes, Schwinn Super Sport, Panasonic DX-4000, Palo Alto Campy equipped bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
You are better off with shorter pads.
Okay. Thanks.
taguy4 is offline  
Old 09-17-21, 10:26 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
dwmckee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,468

Bikes: Co-Motion Cappuccino Tandem,'88 Bob Jackson Touring, Co-Motion Cascadia Touring, Open U.P., Ritchie Titanium Breakaway, Frances Cycles SmallHaul cargo bike. Those are the permanent ones; others wander in and out of the stable occasionally as well.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 340 Times in 230 Posts
You can deflate the tire to get the wheel off and on, then reinflate. I'd go with shorter pads though.
dwmckee is offline  
Old 09-17-21, 11:02 PM
  #5  
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times in 1,439 Posts
Mine are like that, and yes, it's a PITA to remove the front wheel. But the pad installation/adjustment isn't any more difficult than with shorter pads; I use a "fourth hand" tool to help.

Last edited by Rolla; 09-17-21 at 11:06 PM.
Rolla is offline  
Old 09-18-21, 01:05 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 171

Bikes: Peugeot PR-10, Peugeot UO-8, Boeris racing bike, AMF Roadmaster Renegade, Gitane Gypsy Sport, various Schwinn muscle bikes, Schwinn Super Sport, Panasonic DX-4000, Palo Alto Campy equipped bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Rolla
Mine are like that, and yes, it's a PITA to remove the front wheel. But the pad installation/adjustment isn't any more difficult than with shorter pads; I use a "fourth hand" tool to help.
A fourth hand tool, or a 3rd hand tool? A 4th hand tool just pulls the cable tight whereas a 3rd hand tool holds the brake calipers (or cantilevers) up against the rim. If you would use a 3rd hand tool to hold the cantilevers while you slid the long brake pads under the fork blades/set stays to install them, you would have to find a tool with just the right amount of tension to hold the cantilevers far enough away from the rims to allow the brake pads to be installed, unless I'm missing something.

The only "cantilever" brakes I've done up until now are the Mafac centerpulls on my two Peugeot road bikes and they both have standard length road brake pads on them.. I use a 3rd hand brake tool to hold the pads close to the rim and adjust the straddle and brake cables by hand, trial and error style until I get them how I like them.

The Radius cantilever brakes take brake pads with threaded studs and nuts like a road bike but I believe need spacers to hold them proud of the rim side mounting surface I believe which most shorter road brake pads don't have.
taguy4 is offline  
Old 09-18-21, 01:34 PM
  #7  
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times in 1,439 Posts
Originally Posted by taguy4
A fourth hand tool, or a 3rd hand tool? A 4th hand tool just pulls the cable tight whereas a 3rd hand tool holds the brake calipers (or cantilevers) up against the rim. If you would use a 3rd hand tool to hold the cantilevers while you slid the long brake pads under the fork blades/set stays to install them, you would have to find a tool with just the right amount of tension to hold the cantilevers far enough away from the rims to allow the brake pads to be installed, unless I'm missing something.
With the wheel off, I put the pads on the arms and finger-tighten the bolts. Then I put the wheel on and use a fourth hand tool to tension the cable enough to hold the pads against the rim while aligning and tightening them. See video at 0:56 below:


Last edited by Rolla; 09-18-21 at 01:43 PM.
Rolla is offline  
Old 09-18-21, 04:05 PM
  #8  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,490

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3200 Post(s)
Liked 1,739 Times in 1,049 Posts
Haha! **** cantis!
chaadster is offline  
Old 09-18-21, 04:14 PM
  #9  
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times in 1,439 Posts
Someone needs a nap. Again.
Rolla is offline  
Old 09-18-21, 07:06 PM
  #10  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,699

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11044 Post(s)
Liked 7,595 Times in 4,235 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
Haha! **** cantis!
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 09-19-21, 07:00 AM
  #11  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,490

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3200 Post(s)
Liked 1,739 Times in 1,049 Posts
It’s pitiful to see people struggling to solve bike issues were solved literally 30 years ago…then solved again about 18 years ago. Super sad.

Seriously, slap some V-brakes on that thing at least and start enjoying the fruits of progress.
chaadster is offline  
Old 09-19-21, 07:32 AM
  #12  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,749 Times in 2,552 Posts
If anything, I hate v brakes more than I hate cantis. OP, there are brake shoes that aren't as long on the frame side. I think they must be koolstop, but I'm not sure what they are called.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-19-21, 07:44 AM
  #13  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,490

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3200 Post(s)
Liked 1,739 Times in 1,049 Posts
Lemme guess, “and you know what’s worse than Vs? Discs.”
chaadster is offline  
Old 09-19-21, 08:00 PM
  #14  
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,270 Times in 1,439 Posts
This forum is so hashtag blessed to have Chodester and all of his infantile infinite wisdom. What an asset.
Rolla is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 07:09 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,893
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,489 Times in 873 Posts
As long as we're trolling about brake types, I tried mini-v's for a while on my canti cross bike, and the brake feel was super mushy, and the pads had to be run super close to the rims which means any hint of mud or dirt messes them up. I switched back to traditional cantilevers.

My other bike has hydro disc, which is substantially better.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 11:25 AM
  #16  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,749 Times in 2,552 Posts
The op isn't going to be throwing away his canti equipped bike any time soon, so I'm confused why we're having a discussion of the relative merits of brake types in here. Except maybe between cantis and vee brakes. If they were buying a new bike, it would be different.
Mushy vee brakes sounds like a lever/brake mismatch, maybe.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 12:46 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,893
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,489 Times in 873 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
Mushy vee brakes sounds like a lever/brake mismatch, maybe.
Standard road levers don't pull enough cable to properly set up a regular V brake. There are a few options to work around this problem:

1. Several manufacturers make "mini-V" brakes on the market that have a shorter arms and therefore shorter cable pull than a standard V-brake. These brakes are specifically marketed for use with road levers and offer more power than a cantilever setup, but require the pads to be run really close to the rims and the brakes require all of the available lever pull to engage, so the brake feel is mushy in comparison to a traditional cantilever. This setup also leaves little room for mud/dirt clearance.
https://trpcycling.com/product/cx-8-4/

2. Standard V-brakes can be used with road levers and an adapter that pulls more cable. There is a product called "Travel Agent" that can be used for this. Because it's pulling more cable, you have to apply a lot more force on the lever to get the same amount of brake power. In my experience you end up with roughly the same brake power as a traditional canti, but this setup works if you can't run the center cantilever hanger for some reason (like suspension, or an incompatible stem/steer tube).
https://problemsolversbike.com/index...ch-your-brakes

None of this answers the OP's question though. They should use the shorter pads, which will be easier to set up... and deflate the front tire to get it off.
msu2001la is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.