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Going Tubeless or hope so

Old 09-23-21, 05:02 AM
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Going Tubeless or hope so

Hi All,

I just bought a second hand Merida Cyclocross 300 bike and would like to go tubeless but no idea if this is possible on the rims that came with the bike.
can you go tubeless on a rim that is not made for tubeless or is this a no go area? (doing our local cyclocross races)
Peter
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Old 09-23-21, 07:27 AM
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In principle it is possible if you remove the old rim lining and put on tubeless rim tape. But it could be a lot harder to seat the tire on the rim due to the rim clearance being off. I would suggest just taping it first, putting in a stem, and seeing if you can get it to seal. You may need several extra layers of rim tape. If that works you can commit, if not you are not out a lot of $$ for trying.

It is also worth typing the rim model plus "tubeless" into Google to see if there are any reports for that particular model.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:45 AM
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"Ghetto Tubeless" is a thing. When the MTB world started moving towards tubeless, there were lots of people converting non-tubeless rims with tape/sealant to run tubeless tires. This setup is a lot more likely to have failures, burps, tires coming off the rim, etc. and the problems are amplified in narrower tire sizes that are used for CX racing (compared to MTB).

I love tubeless for CX racing - it allows me to run ~25psi and get a nice supple feeling from the tires with good puncture resistance (and no fear of pinch flatting), but I think I'd rather be on 35-40psi clinchers than rolling the dice on a ghetto tubeless setup failing on me as I'm chucking it into an off-camber corner.
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Old 09-23-21, 10:13 AM
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Um, no. Its gonna burp at low psi, and then bad things will happen.

Full disclosure - I have done something like this with "skinny stripper" latex rim strips to prevent burping, but I'm not gonna say it is safe to do without.
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Old 09-23-21, 07:28 PM
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I wouldn't do it for a race. Just pre-ride the course, choose the right tread, and then set your pressure carefully. If this is your first race, you will suffer equally with or without tubeless tires!
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Old 09-24-21, 02:41 AM
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Thanks all for your replies,

I did order some folding tyres and a sealing kit, fingers crossed it will work. yes Rolla it is going to be my first race ( this Sunday) the main thing to change is that every time (all 3 times ) I ended up with flat tyres!
My Idea is to try to convert the front wheel and see if it stays inflated and in place (suggestions on how to test this best are most welcome). if it doesn't stay in place I can convert it back to the old tyre and (new) innertube without to much loss.

Peter
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Old 09-24-21, 09:05 AM
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I'll anxiously await your race report -- best of luck!
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Old 09-24-21, 03:02 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't (and don't) go getto tubless without these:
FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solution and SkinnyStripper Tubeless CX & DH Solution <link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_Logo_320.jpg" / ><link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_L

Its going to prevent your tire from burping (and make easy to seat, and make sure you don't have any rim leaks). Very very inexpensive insurance.

Not your first race ever, if you have already done 3?

FYI, I'd do the back tire if only doing one. 90% of my flats are on the back tire, and if it burps I can go down gracefully. A sudden front tire flat is gonna cause me to hit the deck.
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Old 09-24-21, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
My Idea is to try to convert the front wheel
The risk here is of an unpredictable blowout. What you're doing is something that I'd recommend against in general, but at any rate, using the front tire as your test run seems backwards.
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Old 09-24-21, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
Hi All,

I just bought a second hand Merida Cyclocross 300 bike and would like to go tubeless but no idea if this is possible on the rims that came with the bike.
can you go tubeless on a rim that is not made for tubeless or is this a no go area? (doing our local cyclocross races)
Peter
While I did experiment with and got away with a tubeless conversion with a non-tubeless rim on a mountain bike, I would NOT do it for a smaller gravel tire. The tire pressure is much higher.
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Old 09-29-21, 03:49 AM
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first race done

Hi All,

Again thank you all for answering my question, in the end I did changed both tyres and made the tubeless,
the tape who came with the kit was actually too wide for my rim but realised it when it didn't gave me a proper seal on the rim, and had to redo the rim.
The race was great really enjoyed it, happy I didn't come last even I was not far off, lost a lot of time getting off the bike because it felt so alien to be clipped in and trying to get my leg over to the other side and had to come to a stop before dismounting.
The steeps I struggled with because I had not traction on the top bit (lose soil and gravel) maybe this was because I was riding at 30psi? the downhill scared me and I am still surprised that I didn't go over the handlebars! but instead hit the deck on the technical bit on a bend with lose soil and stones .
All in all I absolutely loved it and can't wait for the next race in a couple of weeks

Peter
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Old 09-29-21, 09:19 AM
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Cool and congrats on finishing your first race.

Tire pressure is a much debated topic in CX. I am around 165lbs and ran my last race at 26psi front, 28psi rear on 33mm tubeless tires. On my other bike with tubulars, I would be more like 22-23psi.

Typically you want the tires as soft as they can be without bottoming out and striking the rim on the ground. For most people, it's lower than they are used to, so practicing riding around in a park at lower PSI can be helpful to get used to the feeling.
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Old 09-29-21, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
lost a lot of time getting off the bike because it felt so alien to be clipped in and trying to get my leg over to the other side and had to come to a stop before dismounting.
Glad you survived and enjoyed your race, Peter!

Before the next race, set up some simple barricades (or just lay some sticks on the ground) in a park somewhere and practice your rolling dismounts and re-mounts. It's definitely a skill you can master.

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Old 09-29-21, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chas58
Personally, I wouldn't (and don't) go getto tubless without these:
FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solution and SkinnyStripper Tubeless CX & DH Solution <link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_Logo_320.jpg" / ><link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_L

Its going to prevent your tire from burping (and make easy to seat, and make sure you don't have any rim leaks). Very very inexpensive insurance.

Not your first race ever, if you have already done 3?

FYI, I'd do the back tire if only doing one. 90% of my flats are on the back tire, and if it burps I can go down gracefully. A sudden front tire flat is gonna cause me to hit the deck.
+1 on the Skinny Stripper. I've used these on a couple conversions and never had a burp. Totally recommended.
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Old 09-30-21, 02:00 AM
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Not worth the effort.
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Old 09-30-21, 10:53 AM
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Peter, that is cool. thanks for sharing and congrats.
Yep, every fall I practice jumping on and off the bike at speed.

I'm amazed at the stuff I can climb on my bike (I blame the bike), but you need a very smooth cadence and your weight over the rear wheel to climb really steep stuff. But then again, most courses are designed so you can't ride up certain portions of it.

If the downhills are too steep, you can try putting your butt back behind the saddle - that is what MTBs did before dropper posts.
of course if something goes wrong, that seat is going to give your ribs a hard hit (don't ask me how i know).


Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
Hi All,=
Again thank you all for answering my question, in the end I did changed both tyres and made the tubeless,
the tape who came with the kit was actually too wide for my rim but realised it when it didn't gave me a proper seal on the rim, and had to redo the rim.
The race was great really enjoyed it, happy I didn't come last even I was not far off, lost a lot of time getting off the bike because it felt so alien to be clipped in and trying to get my leg over to the other side and had to come to a stop before dismounting.
The steeps I struggled with because I had not traction on the top bit (lose soil and gravel) maybe this was because I was riding at 30psi? the downhill scared me and I am still surprised that I didn't go over the handlebars! but instead hit the deck on the technical bit on a bend with lose soil and stones .
All in all I absolutely loved it and can't wait for the next race in a couple of weeks

Peter

Last edited by chas58; 10-01-21 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 10-27-21, 02:13 AM
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Hi here is an another update and more questions

Last Sunday I did my second race what left me with a couple of questions.

First of all I became a cropper going down a steep bank it wasn't a straight down decent but on an angle more along the bank with an unlevel surface not sure how I became a cropper but when I picked up the bike my front tire must have come of the rim (and back in its place but with a lot off dirt/ grass in between the tire and the rim ) now my question is could this just be a fluke and the fall forced the tire to come of because of low pressure holding it in its place or could it be that the angle of the bank forced the tire inwards what weould make me fall?



The second question is in the last twenty minutes of the race it started raining and had no grip going uphill was this (because of the fall I put a bit more pressure in the tire) to much pressure or is there a trick to go uphill on muddy banks?

looking forward to what comes back on this

cheers peter
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Old 10-27-21, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
Hi here is an another update and more questions

Last Sunday I did my second race what left me with a couple of questions.

First of all I became a cropper going down a steep bank it wasn't a straight down decent but on an angle more along the bank with an unlevel surface not sure how I became a cropper but when I picked up the bike my front tire must have come of the rim (and back in its place but with a lot off dirt/ grass in between the tire and the rim ) now my question is could this just be a fluke and the fall forced the tire to come of because of low pressure holding it in its place or could it be that the angle of the bank forced the tire inwards what weould make me fall?
Not sure what a cropper is, but my suspicion here is that the tire came off first, and caused the crash? Of course lots of crazy stuff happens in crashes that could also pull the tire off the rim.
(EDIT: Re-reading this your tire did not come off the rim if you kept racing - it would've been flat. So maybe you over cooked it on the off-camber and slid out? That can cause some grass/dirt to get stuck in weird places. Also possible your pressure was too low and you were bottoming out on the rim here?)

Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
The second question is in the last twenty minutes of the race it started raining and had no grip going uphill was this (because of the fall I put a bit more pressure in the tire) to much pressure or is there a trick to go uphill on muddy banks?

looking forward to what comes back on this

cheers peter
Mud/wet conditions often require running up stuff that would otherwise be ridable in dry weather. Get some toe spikes for your shoes and learn to shoulder the bike. Welcome to CX!

Last edited by msu2001la; 10-27-21 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 10-28-21, 06:03 AM
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Hi msu2001la

with the saying I became a cropper" meaning that I had an unexpected and embarrassing failure or fall in my case .



The tire did came off but went back to the rim but because it got all grass and dirt in between it went down so stopped cleared it as good as I could and pumped it back up it still went down but slow enough to finish the race.

This Sunday is my 3rd race what is going to be very hilly and rain in the forecast so that will be a new experience!!



Originally Posted by msu2001la
Not sure what a cropper is, but my suspicion here is that the tire came off first, and caused the crash? Of course lots of crazy stuff happens in crashes that could also pull the tire off the rim.
(EDIT: Re-reading this your tire did not come off the rim if you kept racing - it would've been flat. So maybe you over cooked it on the off-camber and slid out? That can cause some grass/dirt to get stuck in weird places. Also possible your pressure was too low and you were bottoming out on the rim here?)



Mud/wet conditions often require running up stuff that would otherwise be ridable in dry weather. Get some toe spikes for your shoes and learn to shoulder the bike. Welcome to CX!
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Old 10-28-21, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
Hi msu2001la

with the saying I became a cropper" meaning that I had an unexpected and embarrassing failure or fall in my case .



The tire did came off but went back to the rim but because it got all grass and dirt in between it went down so stopped cleared it as good as I could and pumped it back up it still went down but slow enough to finish the race.

This Sunday is my 3rd race what is going to be very hilly and rain in the forecast so that will be a new experience!!

What I love about this video is that siting and sliding is clearly the fastest approach, yet a bunch of guys (Masters 55+) still refuse, even after getting repeatedly passed by guys willing to just embrace their inner 7 year old.


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Old 10-28-21, 08:32 AM
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msu2001la

haha going to have to remember that, I always feel I have to bike everything
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Old 10-28-21, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
Hi here is an another update and more questions

Last Sunday I did my second race what left me with a couple of questions.

First of all I became a cropper going down a steep bank it wasn't a straight down decent but on an angle more along the bank with an unlevel surface not sure how I became a cropper but when I picked up the bike my front tire must have come of the rim (and back in its place but with a lot off dirt/ grass in between the tire and the rim ) now my question is could this just be a fluke and the fall forced the tire to come of because of low pressure holding it in its place or could it be that the angle of the bank forced the tire inwards what weould make me fall?



The second question is in the last twenty minutes of the race it started raining and had no grip going uphill was this (because of the fall I put a bit more pressure in the tire) to much pressure or is there a trick to go uphill on muddy banks?

looking forward to what comes back on this

cheers peter
1). That is how CX is designed (wierd off camber stuff).
Not a fluke. If you are going to run low pressure tubless on non tubless rims, this is gonna happen (its called burping). Really, you need some skinny strippers to prevent this (they are cheap)
FattyStripper Tubeless Fat Bike Solution and SkinnyStripper Tubeless CX & DH Solution <link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_Logo_320.jpg" / ><link rel="image_src" href="https://fattystripper.com/media/FattyStripper_L
Naturally, the better solution is to get both tubeless tires and rims, but that costs a bit more! But with a good tube/rim compatible combo, this won't happen
Caveat: there are no real tubless standards, so compatibility is hit or miss. Theoretically I guess they just certified tubless standards, but who the heck knows if wheels/tires before now meet those standards? Its typically not published anywhere. Conti, for instance, just developed a new version of the GP5000 that meets the standards, last year's model does not. But how does a consumer know this stuff???

2)
there is a trick to going up hill.
Realistically, most CX courses have a hill that is supposed to be unrideable and should be run up. What were others doing??
My technique - all of my weight should be on the rear wheel. your traction is directly proportional to the weight and friction. you control the weight on the wheel. Ideally your front wheel would be close to doing a wheelie. That and a super smooth cadence (fairly fast). I can climb some crazy stuff doing that (actually, I wrote this above).


Originally Posted by cyclocrossnewbe
msu2001la

haha going to have to remember that, I always feel I have to bike everything
Not in Cyclocrosss!
But to be honest, I typically bike up/through stuff 80% of the people are walking on in CX.
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Old 10-28-21, 12:04 PM
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Re riding v. running. My son and I did a clinic with Cody Kaiser, who's famous for riding unrideable sections (go on youtube and put in "Cody rode it"), but he said you have to remember the purpose is to get around the course as quickly as possible. You don't win a prize for riding when you could have run.

This weekend, the course had a bit where the normal remount was in a section that turned to peanut butter. First time through I tried to remount there and came to a dead stop. Second time through I just kept running another 20m to get to decent packed gravel to remount there.
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Old 10-28-21, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
Re riding v. running. My son and I did a clinic with Cody Kaiser, who's famous for riding unrideable sections (go on youtube and put in "Cody rode it"), but he said you have to remember the purpose is to get around the course as quickly as possible. You don't win a prize for riding when you could have run.

This weekend, the course had a bit where the normal remount was in a section that turned to peanut butter. First time through I tried to remount there and came to a dead stop. Second time through I just kept running another 20m to get to decent packed gravel to remount there.
I'm always amazed at the number of riders who try to remount when still going uphill. If you do this and your bike is in the wrong gear, or you miss the clip in on the first try you end up losing all your momentum and coming to a complete stop. It's sooooo much easier and faster to just run a few more feet and remount once the grade is level or going back down. The downhill will help with acceleration and if you miss on clipping in or find yourself in the wrong gear, it's no big deal.
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