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This Is Ridiculous (No Ultra Low Gear Options)

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This Is Ridiculous (No Ultra Low Gear Options)

Old 10-19-21, 07:05 AM
  #51  
pdlamb
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I never quite got the "you might as well walk" mentality. When we are grinding up a hill at 8 MPH, do we bemoan our "running" speed.
My "might as well walk" speed is closer to 3 mph. But then I'm a dinosaur cranking my MTB/touring triple.
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Old 10-19-21, 07:28 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
If I am not happy with the Gevenalle solution, I may try that.
I used Gevenalle shifters for aabout 5 years and really liked them. The hood shape fit my hands well and my hands are large enough that I could shift the rear from the drops so that common downside wasnt an issue. They are simple and dead reliable. The cables out in front was really my only gripe, but clearly I didnt care enough to change.
I even used them on my current gravel frame, even though at the time it would have been an easy switch. I finally sold them after a year on the new frame because I went hydraulic.

My old gravel bike had a wolftooth as well. Again, simple and dead reliable. Its just a piece of machined aluminum, so it doesnt stand out as a hack since most all bikes already have one of those as the replacable hanger.
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Old 10-19-21, 07:58 AM
  #53  
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My grvel bike is running a 46/30 and 11-42 and honestly sometimes I wouldn't mind having a lower gear for more casual riding or long rides where I don't want to empty the tank too much any time the road turns up 10%+. YMMV though, it really does depend on individual fitness. I myself am a mediocre climber with an ftp between 150-160 and weighing between 175-180 lbs. No matter how slow you think riding will be, it will be faster than walking.

However, grades like these on gravel with typical gravel bike tires start to make managing traction and keeping the front down more of a challenge.
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Old 10-19-21, 10:00 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post


There's nothing contradictory in wanting a 19" gear while also simultaneously wanting the bike to be capable of fulfilling a road-bike-esque role.
I'm not saying there's a contradiction, I'm saying that the market for this setup is very small - and expecting manufacturers to offer off-the-shelf builds catering to this type of setup is not realistic.

There are lots of solutions out there. I wouldn't expect Trek to start selling a drop bar bike with MTB range gearing anytime soon though.
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Old 10-19-21, 11:08 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
If you think about the "technology" I am asking for, it's really not much. Just the ability to run an 11-42 cassette with that GRX crank. Shimano's MTB derailleurs can do it, why not build that into the GRX?
Shimano's MTB derailleurs can handle an 11-42 rear cassette, but you can't run them with a GRX crank due to the chainline differences.

Shimano's MTB drivetrains are designed to work with 148mm rear hub spacing, and therefore use a wider chainline at the front. GRX was designed to work with 142mm rear hub spacing (road disc standard), but Shimano wanted a 2x option that could clear wider tires than road FD's would allow, so GRX uses a 2.5 mm wider chainline than road groupsets.

So to reiterate - Shimano's MTB derailleurs (in Di2 form) can be used with GRX Di2 shifters, but you would need to run an MTB crank with them (and you also must match the FD and RD, so you can't run a GRX FD and an XT RD). If you want a 2x setup with an 11-42 cassette, you could run a 2x XT di2 with GRX di2 shifters, but you would need a 2x MTB crank. This would actually give you a 10-45 12sp cassette on a 36-26 crank, that can be used with drop bar shifters. MTB cranks are wider, so your chainline would be more outboard than a GRX setup, but this is a small trade-off if you really want that kind of range.

Your desired gearing (48/31 with 11-42) has ratios ranging from 0.74 - 4.36 (589%)
The XT Di2 2x setup (36/26 with 10-45) has ratios ranging from 0.58 - 3.60 (620%). You might be able to run a larger big ring on that XT crankset to expand this even further, I'm not sure.

I do think the next version of GRX (likely 12sp?) will see even larger gearing range options that work with 2x - but until everything goes Di2 I would expect there to still be compatibility issues between flat bar and drop bar groupset designs, and it seems unlikely that Shimano is going to make a drop-bar 2x version of a mechanical MTB groupset, which is basically what you're asking for.
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Old 10-19-21, 01:16 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I'm not saying there's a contradiction, I'm saying that the market for this setup is very small - and expecting manufacturers to offer off-the-shelf builds catering to this type of setup is not realistic.

There are lots of solutions out there. I wouldn't expect Trek to start selling a drop bar bike with MTB range gearing anytime soon though.
Let's revisit this thread in 5 years. I think they will come to their senses.
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Old 10-19-21, 01:18 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
My grvel bike is running a 46/30 and 11-42 and honestly sometimes I wouldn't mind having a lower gear for more casual riding or long rides where I don't want to empty the tank too much any time the road turns up 10%+. YMMV though, it really does depend on individual fitness. I myself am a mediocre climber with an ftp between 150-160 and weighing between 175-180 lbs. No matter how slow you think riding will be, it will be faster than walking.

However, grades like these on gravel with typical gravel bike tires start to make managing traction and keeping the front down more of a challenge.
Do you mind telling me what frame you run and what the rest of your shifter and drivetrain combo is?
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Old 10-19-21, 02:21 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Chilepines View Post
BTW GRX 2X rear derailleurs can handle a 42t cassette with a road link. There is a great video from Bikepacking.com that shows how the B screw aligns just fine once the Road Link is added.
I have ordered parts and will do this mod very soon. 46/30 with a GRX 810 RD. I will put a Wolftooth Roadlink 10 on it to go with the Deore M8000 11-40 cassette. Not going to push my luck with the 11-42, though. The 11-40 cassette with a roadlink looks like it works smoothly and is so easy to do. Will get me 20 gear inches that I will need for gravel routes I have planned for next year that average 7-8% grades over 3 to 4 miles. According to online calculators, at 70 rpm that would be about 4.3 mph averaging 150 watts. Better than grinding your legs off - or walking!
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Old 10-20-21, 07:39 AM
  #59  
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Interesting....

https://landing.campagnolo.com/en/ekar
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Old 10-20-21, 09:11 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I have a mountain triple on my gravel bike, but if I went to 1x it would be campagnolo.
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Old 10-20-21, 09:18 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Interesting....
I don't understand all the movement to 1X. Must just be me?? 2X and 3X system have more efficient (power, wear....) chainlines, have much wider gear ranges, and have smaller steps between cogs for better cadence. And I thought cross chaining was supposed to be bad.
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Old 10-20-21, 09:58 AM
  #62  
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Losses from crosschaining in a 2x11 setup is under 0.8W loss (running 53-28 versus closest gears in the 39 ring, 250W output, 95 rpm, tested by friction facts).
​​​​​
In a 1x system it is necessarily less than the worst case of a 2x setup... basically not a significant factor. With a triple extreme gear combinations are more of an issue.
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Old 10-20-21, 10:03 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
Losses from crosschaining in a 2x11 setup is under 0.8W loss (running 53-28 versus closest gears in the 39 ring, 250W output, 95 rpm, tested by friction facts).
​​​​​
In a 1x system it is necessarily less than the worst case of a 2x setup... basically not a significant factor. With a triple extreme gear combinations are more of an issue.
Cross chaining in 2x will create a worse case compared to 1x, but not cross chaining in 2x will create a better case compared to 1x. <--that last part seems to often be ignored/missed when drivetrain efficiency for 1x is discussed.

Either way though, I am for sure losing more watts due to my dirty chain than either the theoretical 1x or 2x inefficiencies.
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Old 10-20-21, 10:52 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rsrogers View Post
I don't understand all the movement to 1X. Must just be me?? 2X and 3X system have more efficient (power, wear....) chainlines, have much wider gear ranges, and have smaller steps between cogs for better cadence. And I thought cross chaining was supposed to be bad.
Yes it's just you.

Say goodbye to 3x
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Old 10-20-21, 11:40 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by rsrogers View Post
I don't understand all the movement to 1X.
Most people don't like front-shifts.
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Old 10-20-21, 12:06 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Yes it's just you.

Say goodbye to 3x
LOL. maybe it is just me :-) But I might as well as shake the nest..... 3X may not be "cool" to some people, but objectively they have advantages. Straighter, more power efficient chainlines can be achieved, and one small extra ring up front actually replaces gearing from 3 or more cogs on a wide ratio 13sp 1X cassette. And whatever weight/aero penalty comes from a front derailleur isn't significant to me. Plus, I don't like big jumps between gears.

I have multiple 2X bikes, but 3X works for me and I'll always keep one around. But I also went with disc brakes years ago when they weren't cool either. But don't worry, I've never had any toe clips on my bikes.
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Old 10-20-21, 12:14 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by rsrogers View Post
LOL. maybe it is just me :-) But I might as well as shake the nest..... 3X may not be "cool" to some people, but objectively they have advantages. Straighter, more power efficient chainlines can be achieved, and one small extra ring up front actually replaces gearing from 3 or more cogs on a wide ratio 13sp 1X cassette. And whatever weight/aero penalty comes from a front derailleur isn't significant to me. Plus, I don't like big jumps between gears.

I have multiple 2X bikes, but 3X works for me and I'll always keep one around. But I also went with disc brakes years ago when they weren't cool either. But don't worry, I've never had any toe clips on my bikes.
It's not about being cool. With wide range cassettes too much gear overlap to to keep 3x going.

Pretty much every mountain bike is 1x right now.

With some of us that actually have hills where we ride I think 2 x 11 with a 42 or 46T cassette would be beneficial on a gravel bike.

Last edited by prj71; 10-20-21 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 10-20-21, 12:54 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
It's not about being cool. With wide range cassettes too much gear overlap to to keep 3x going.
It has nothing to do with gear overlap. Most people don't like front shifting and don't care about wide spacing. That vast majority of people couldn't even tell you what gearing they have. They just run whatever came on the bike.
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Old 10-20-21, 02:20 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Cross chaining in 2x will create a worse case compared to 1x, but not cross chaining in 2x will create a better case compared to 1x. <--that last part seems to often be ignored/missed when drivetrain efficiency for 1x is discussed.

Either way though, I am for sure losing more watts due to my dirty chain than either the theoretical 1x or 2x inefficiencies.
I figure my chocolate addiction costs me more watts than anything else.
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Old 10-20-21, 02:37 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
That vast majority of people couldn't even tell you what gearing they have. They just run whatever came on the bike.
I think there is a lot of truth to this. I could realistically do 95% of what I want to do with a 1X with a 32 crank and an 11-42 cassette, and I am a cycling enthusiast. That combo would only fail me when I wanted to push my speeds into the mid 20's.
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Old 10-20-21, 02:42 PM
  #71  
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The difference between a peeerfectly straight chain and the worst case scenario for a 1x is significantly similar in terms of watts than the difference between a Dura-ace 11 speed chain and a SRAM Red chain. It is really minuscule.
​​​​
If 1x gives you the gearing you like, no reason to avoid it. If not, 2x gives more range and you can typically bodge something for the extra range. I could live with Campagnolo Ekar just as well as I could with GRX.
​​​​​​

​​​​​

Last edited by Branko D; 10-20-21 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 10-20-21, 03:43 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Yes it's just you.

Say goodbye to 3x
Hey hey, my my. 3x will never die.
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Old 10-20-21, 05:03 PM
  #73  
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The RX800(similar to the GRX810) handles the 11-40 and probably the 11-42T stock. You should probably just try it before you go through all the trouble of tanpans or road links

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Old 10-20-21, 05:45 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
It has nothing to do with gear overlap. Most people don't like front shifting and don't care about wide spacing. That vast majority of people couldn't even tell you what gearing they have. They just run whatever came on the bike.
I just today got a chainring to convert my wife's bike to 1x. Sometimes I think she rides in whatever gear I left it in when I worked on her bike last.
I'm almost positive she never shifts the front derailleur. I doubt she'll complain about 32-11 being her high gear.
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Old 10-20-21, 05:56 PM
  #75  
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Paul Barnard,

Age, weight, health, and general deterioration have started to make me avoid hills.

Motobecane 700c came with the standard 36/46 and 11/32 with gear inch range 29.7 - 110.3.

Ten years ago that was fine. But the steep hills are still here.

I just swapped to a 34/46 and 11/36 range, now gear inch range is 24.9 - 110.3

Hills are good for now. But 20 gear inches would be ideal.

Thanks for starting this.
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