Salsa Chili Con Cross vs. Van Dessel Gin & Trombones
 

I'll be doing about 90% of my riding on the road. The other 10% a mix of doubletrack and commuting purposes (don't need rack or fender mounts which I'm aware neither have). Van Dessel has the carbon rear seat-stays and is a bit cheaper. I think the Salsa looks better and I've owned a Salsa before, not very familiar with the quality of Van Dessel. Opinions?

http://www.salsacycles.com/images/bkimg_chili.jpg

http://www.vandesselsports.com/bikeN...main_small.jpg

I have a Van Dessel and am very happy with the ride and the quality of the frame. Also for me the fit is spot on. I have not ran it in any races, as I got it after the season, but for my winter training, it has been a nice ride and builds out to under 20 pounds.

The Salsa frame is really really light scandium. Since it has the same modulus as regular aluminum, I would worry that it might be too flexy.

The Van Dessel (I keep wanting to say "Vin Diesel", wtf)... ermm... anyway it looks to be a little more suited for multiple seasons and/or clyde use. However, those carbon seatstays are getting about as faddish as purple anodized **** was a decade ago. Some manufacturers just bulk order pre-fab CF stays and throw them into frames without regard for whether it really makes the resulting frankenframe any better. In other words, overbuilt prefab CF stays may result in a heavier, flexier, less reliable bike. I don't know about Vin Diesel's frame to say what the deal is in this particular case though.

Voting for the Van Dessel, since my gut feeling is that the Salsa is a 1-season frame for greyhounds.

One more thought on this. I have owned 4 other cross bikes before, a Gunnar, Proprad and a Ridley crossbow, Kona Jake. By far the the Vin Dessel is the best all around riding one that I have had for the road and light trails. the carbon makes a difference on the overall ride. Going downhill I never feel out of controll at 30 MPH. In many respects I feel as though I am on a good road bike. I cannot say that for the other. That being said, I'll see how I feel about that when I trying to jump a barrier next year on the the cross track.

For the record I do like Salsa's, I just ordered a 29er for my spring and summer ride.......go figure.

Don't venture opinions on things you know nothing about...

The Salsa will be STIFFER than the VD. The tubes on the Salsa are bigger and shaped.
How do I know? I have been riding and racing a Salsa Las Cruces for 2 years. It's been put through the ringer and still looks new. I ride it on everything from the road to singletrack. It's almost as stiff as my Ridley carbon road bike.

BTW, stiffness of the frame has nothing to do with the modulus of the material. It has everything to do with how the tubes are drawn, shaped and welded.

Las Cruces . . . Chili con Crosso . . .
Apparently, it's OK to compare apples and oranges as long as you've got a personal interest in one or the other :rolleyes:

For a sub 3 pound frame, the Chili con Crosso has fairly skinny tubes. I stand by my original assertion that it's going to be a noodle for all but the lightest of riders.

Not apples and oranges...

You still don't have any experience with a Salsa scandium bike. The Las Cruces may indeed be a different frame than the Con Crosso, but it's made from the same material, sports shaped tubes and it also is a sub-three pound frame. I ridden and raced Salsa road, cross and mountain frames. All were different, yet all were extremely light and stiff. I weigh 175 and the only discernable flex on my cross rig comes from the Truvativ carbon cranks.

The Salsa will be a nicer bike as QBP is a big company and can spec their tubesets, tube shapes and dimensions. Van Dessel likely picked that frame from the Taiwan Bicycle Guide, called the manufacturer and ordered them with their own paint.

Christ, I have an 853 Gunnar SS cross bike that's pretty beat these days, but is still pretty damn stiff. Skinny tubes don't mean sh*t...

Oh, I hadn't realized the Las Cruces was also a sub 3 lb scandium frame. Looking at big pics of both it and the Chili, it looks like they have roughly the same size tubes. I guess the Chili might not be flexy after all (oops)

I agree w/ you about Van Dessel likely picking the frame out of a Taiwanese catalog. The carbon stays especially are a telling sign, since in my experience there are three types of frame with carbo stays:
1. Small production volume, high $$$ frames where the builder actually makes their own stays (rare).
2. Frame builders that order pre-fab stays and incorporate them into their own unique frames. (sometimes really great frames, sometimes not)
3. Bike companies that pick one from column A and one from column B in the Taiwanese bike frame menu. (e.g. Nashbar, the new "Motobecanes", etc.)

I'd go with the Chili con Crosso. It's nice to see that Salsa went to 130mm dropout spacing.

I love the VD's.... I cant say I have a VD (luckily) :D

You guy's just have not given the VD a fair shake, it's not a bad frame at all.

Nobody said it isn't a good frame, but of the two, the Salsa is better...

+1

Chili
 

I've been looking at the Chili for 6 months now. LB4Life, have you been fitted for the Salsa? Since I live in Alaska, I haven't seen one yet. It looks like the standover height and top tube measurements both line up w/ my body type. It would be nice to actually try one before I order.

I'm intending to build it up for a commuter using trails & paths to commute on.

If it helps, my Las Cruces is a 54cm. I'm 6 feet tall...

They size out kind of big...

I have not. I'm 6'2" and am debating between the 55 and 57. Be sure and post pics once your done with the build!

If anyone is looking for a good VD frame and fork...here you go. As I mentioned earlier, I am going to a Salsa 29er for the spring and summer, so I need to make room for it. So the VD is up for sale on ebay. Nothing wrong with it.....I am just parting it out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0046&rd=1&rd=1