abaez

I've been using an old, heavy as hell MTB and I'm ready to get a cyclocross bike which would be about 70/30 road/trail riding. Been reading a ton of information and forums the past week and I've narrowed it down to two bikes and need some advice:

2010 Kone Jake the Snake https://www.konaworld.co/bike.cfm?content=jakethesnake Full shimano 105. Can get this for about $1150 out the door at the local LBS.

A 2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro: https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._pro_rival.htm with full SRAM Rival gearing. The plan would be to get this and change the frame out to a steel frame (Soma Double Cross? Surly?) and sell the stock frame for $150-ish?, making it about the same price as the JTS. (Would I need to replace anything else in addition to the frame on this?)

On the one hand I've got a bike that I've ridden and fitted (the JTS) and really like the LBS and the service you get there. Plus the fact that I'd be supporting a local shop is a plus.

On the other I've got the bike with better components that would probably work out to be a better bike in the end, but no LBS service, unknown fit, and a bit of extra work to get a different frame on. (I've read about the steel frames and like them, but not sure if that is worth it?) I am also loving the Salsa Chili con Crosso frame and maybe would even just splurge and go for that.

Also have to take into account the warranty - my current bike is 15 years old and I plan on keeping this one for a good long while. Kona has lifetime on the frame, and whatever frame I end up with the Moto parts may not.

I want to make the right decision. I feel that it comes down to whether or not the better components on the Motobecane and the work involved to get a good frame trumps the out of the box ready to ride, LBS-backed, slightly lesser components of the JTS. Anyone have any recommendations/experience one way or the other as to which?

Thanks

Andy_K 

It sounds like you understand all of the pros and cons.

I'd definitely go with the Jake the Snake in this situation. It's a nice bike, and there's no substitute for a test ride.

GipsyKing

This kills me, I am in almost the exact same situation, right down to the 15-year-old anvil of a MTB that I'm tired of busting my arse on through big miles and endless hills on a bike that doesn't like to roll and isn't made for miles. A consideration: my understanding is that Moto (BD) uses Fuji frames, so if a Fuji cross fits you, it's a good bet a Moto or Windsor will, too. Curious as to why you think the Moto frame is not up to par. AFAIK, these are just rebadged Fuji frames that are maybe tech that is a couple years old to five or six years old.

And I'm also looking at the exact two bikes you mentioned, plus these:

Moto Fantom Cross -- Tiagra/105, *$800
Windsor Cyclo (similar to Moto, same parent company) -- 105/Ultegra $800
Raleigh RX1.0 — full 105, not sure of pricing yet on ‘11 models, I wish I knew! This is nicely equipped and a sweet-looking ride
Marin Argenta — full 105, carbon fork and stays, $1187 REI (road bike, not cross, but the carbon fork and stays are interesting)
Surly CrossCheck — Tiagra, $1050, steel and smooth
Bianchi Volpe — Tiagra/Deore, $1099, steel and smooth
Jamis Nova Race — Sora/Tiagra, $1175 but could maybe find a '10 closeout, steel
Tommaso Bestia — Tiagra/105, $699 closeout; interesting bike but I can't find much info on it; I gather they are mainly web, a lot like BD
2011 Jake ($999) / Jake the Snake -- not out yet afaik, but big price increase on JTS to $1600, what are they thinkin' in the midst of a [double-dip?] recession?

Other thing I'm told by a mechanic to keep in mind is that unless the fork is a full carbon with carbon steerer, it's not as big of a selling point as you might think.

KonAaron Snake 

I had a 2007 JTS which I really loved...the drawback was God awful brakes that squealed and were weak no matter how they were adjusted. I think a lot of the cross bikes come stock with those (the avid 4 shorty)...but I've also heard that the next year's round of cross bikes are going to have disc brakes. You might want to wait for that to happen.

I'd wager that the JTS price hike is going to be disc brakes.

QuotedforTruth

https://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?co...jake_the_snake

The 2011 specs are published above. A bunch of small component changes. I dont know enough to know if they are for the better or not. No disc brakes (same brakes). Different wheelset, headset, bottom bracket and crank, and fork (both house brand). No pedals though (2010 had Shimano M505).

TRANS4M

Consider a 09 Fuji Cross Pro? You can still find these in PB stores and they're willing to make a deal to clear the inventory to make space. I paid $1050 for Ultegra!

https://2009.fujibikes.com/Specialty/.../CrossPro.aspx

GipsyKing

Abaez -- you mention price as a main driver but why get the Moto and have to deal with the hassle and expense of the component transplants? If you can turn a wrench and are fine with it, and have a steel frame laying about, then great. But wouldn't you end up losing money?

Surly frame is $350 to $420 at the moment. So you'd end up spending at minimum an extra $150-200 for Rival by going Moto-Surly assuming you can sell that Moto frame for 150ish, right?

Full 105 on the JTS is a great setup, I've never heard or read anything bad about it. Is Rival noticeably better for you? If not, I'd just get the JTS and enjoy the ride. Or just get a Surly, ride it for awhile, and see if you want to upgrade to 105 or Rival or whatever. Or make a deal to get 105 or Ultrega or Rival on it when it arrives at your LBS. Or just get the Moto and enjoy it; you can always change out the frame later if you end up not digging it. And maybe you can find a Surly frame on CL for cheap.

If it's a fit issue on the Moto -- there are several online fit guides and I've also read from people who have bought BD that they'll work with you to help you pick the right size. BUT if you want the fit/lifetime service experience of the LBS, then definitely go that route.

If you think it's a quality issue with the Moto -- from posts I've seen by mods and well-respected forum veterans with counts in the thousands, there is absolutely no problem with Moto frames, they are as solid as anything else and are made by major frame makers that supply the industry.

I've also seen posts by some people crapping all over internet-bought bikes. Whatever, don't spread bs. And then others say their LBS sucks. Whatever, find a good one. There are always pros and cons to the equation wherever you decide to purchase your toys.

Nice deal!

Regarding cantis, I've read that new, decent $20 brake pads, properly adjusted, get rid of squeal and poor braking.

biken

I own the Moto Cross Pro. The SRAM Rival components are top notch. I've put about 500 miles on mine (mostly offroad) and everything has held up fine. They (Motobecane's) are just re-badged Fuji bikes.. They have the exact same specs and I noticed that when replaced the bartap on mine- on the padding underneath it said "Fuji". Most likely built in the exact same factory.. So, that would be my pick.. You are getting more bike for less money.

abaez

Gipsy - I think the pricing would turn out to be the same. Looks like you could sell the frame for more like $250. I'm still not sure on this yet. I love the JTS, but like biken said you are getting more bike for less money, but without LBS service/help.

GipsyKing

Yeah, there are pros and cons to each side -- LBS (pay more) vs. BD (get more). If you can find a good LBS to tune your bike (or teach yourself), I think that is the sweet spot. I have a couple of LBS's that don't charge an arm and a leg for a tuneup, so this is the direction I'm leaning at the moment...at least until I find out pricing on the Raleigh RX1.0 for 2011! Even with paying for your tuneups at $40-50 per, I think you tend to come out ahead on an internet purchase. Not baggin on LBS, that is just the reality. And I'd guess they wouldn't be quick to admit it, but they are pretty happy getting tune-up and accessory biz as I'd guess that's where they make the bulk of their profits. I've asked a couple of mine if they'd service my bike if bought elsewhere, they said no problem. Now THAT'S a good shop imho.

meanwhile

That's unlikely to be a sure cure. The two certain ways to fix squeal and lack of power are

1. A fork mounted canti hanger (I don't think these fit to carbon forks)

2. Mini-vs or fullsize vs with a travel adaptor.

When squeal is really bad it becomes fork shudder, on which this is the definitive article:

https://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...o-cross_101807

Either way, not a problem.

In the OP's shoes I'd go for the Bikes Direct bike with the intention of keeping it. I'd suggest that the clincher* should be the month's return period BD give; I've never heard of BD messing anyone around on this. Check the terms, order the bike and you'll probably love the frame. If you don't, then you have the experienced the SRAM components and will be able to make a better decision.

*Which ironically could also be said to make the deal a sew-up!

KonAaron Snake 

I used several different pads, all of which were high cost/well regarded...and those brakes were steaming piles of dung. I had a carbon fork, so no canti hanger.

Side note...Shimano 105 does not shift that smoothly when you're used to Campy ergo stuff, which is light years ahead of Shimano in my opinion.