Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
Reload this Page >

Lightest "modern" steel cross frame???

Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Lightest "modern" steel cross frame???

Old 06-26-12, 12:09 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
Lightweight "modern" steel cross frame???

Does anyone have recommendations for a fairly lightweight "modern" steel cross frame, that comes stock with a 60cm top-tube? I have given up on looking for a carbon frame that fits, and since I am 220 lbs - it wouldn't matter much anyway!

Last edited by Erik_A; 06-26-12 at 12:52 PM.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 12:41 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,119
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Have you looked at Kona's CX line? They go quite large.
flargle is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 12:44 PM
  #3  
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,346

Bikes: Too Many

Liked 162 Times in 107 Posts
Lightweight steel can be done. My current race bike is a '05 Lemond Poprad with a Rival build and with race wheels it comes in 18-19lbs. The frame is built with a OX Plat tube set. Look for decent steel and you can get a nice race bike. Sorry, I don't have any specific bike recommendations for you.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
Cynikal is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 12:53 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
Interesting... I have loved my 63cm 1995 Bianchi Veloce road bike with Dedacciai Zero Uno tubing which rides great for my size - but is not exceptionally light. "Deddi Zero Uno - Heavier gauge set designed for exceptionally sturdy frames. Large selection of round tubes." - I guess, I want a well crafted steel frame that is lighter than a Surly Cross Check. Being almost 40 yrs old - I appreciate the "give" of steel over aluminum; but I could be wrong - especially for a race bike.


At your weight the last thing I'd want from a steel bike is low weight. You'll need something strong. If you want strong and light steel is probably your worst choice in frame material. Have you tried any modern aluminum frames? I have two scandium bikes that blow away my previous steel frames. They're much lighter and stiffer and have a smoother ride.
If you really want steel and have the bucks any custom builder could build you something "light" but I bet they try to steer you away from that idea.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 01:15 PM
  #5  
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
 
jfmckenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The edge of b#
Posts: 5,480

Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.

Liked 124 Times in 77 Posts
You are not wrong about aluminum, it's very harsh on a cross course. My bike is OX platinum with a 59cm head tube. It's the last year Lemond made the Poprad. It rides really well. I believe that the brand that replaced it was Gary Fischer. Same bike different decals. You may want to look there.
jfmckenna is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 01:26 PM
  #6  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,595

Bikes: 8

Liked 1,361 Times in 867 Posts
If it is hand made, the materials can be specified, in conversation with the builder.

Example: from the looks of them Brent Steelman in California
makes some really nice Cyclocross race bikes in steel.

they will help you choose materials in consideration of your weight too..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 01:35 PM
  #7  
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,346

Bikes: Too Many

Liked 162 Times in 107 Posts
I left out that mine is a 55cm. I replaced a Cannondale CX-9 with the Poprad mostly due to fit and being a better all around bike. The CX-9 felt fast but I wanted something I could use as a commuter, distance bike and it was simply too harsh. I'm a few short months away from 40 so these things do matter.

Also remember the old saying; Light, strong or cheap...pick two.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

Last edited by Cynikal; 06-26-12 at 01:36 PM. Reason: added stuff
Cynikal is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 02:40 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gunnar CrossHairs
All City Macho Man
Surly Cross-Check
Soma Double Cross
Motobecane Fantom CXX

I've heard the Cross-Check is on the heavier side as I'd guess is the Fantom CXX. And the Gunnar is going to be on the expensive side. I'd go with the Macho Man. I think its being released later this year.

There are some more commuter oriented cross-style steel bikes like the Raleigh Roper (doesn't come in larger than a 57cm t-t), Redline Metro Classic, and Salsa Casserole and Vaya.
roburrito is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 02:51 PM
  #9  
Have bike, will travel
 
Barrettscv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,284

Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2

Liked 290 Times in 160 Posts
My size 60 Soma Double Cross has a 603mm top tube and weighs 23 lbs with Shimano 105.
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
Barrettscv is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 04:08 PM
  #10  
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 5,804

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix, Giant Innova, Nishiki Sebring, Trek 7.5FX

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Perhaps the Raleigh Roper ~ $1500
www.raleighusa.com/bikes/steel-road/roper-12/

Comes in 58cm top tube not 60cm...

* Nice price for chromoly 631 steel...

Last edited by SlimRider; 06-26-12 at 04:15 PM.
SlimRider is offline  
Old 06-26-12, 08:38 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
The Civilian Vive Le Roi looks like the best option so far:https://www.ridecvln.com/bike-types/cyclocross/
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/re...Bike.4375.html

Last edited by Erik_A; 06-26-12 at 09:13 PM.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-27-12, 03:27 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
CliftonGK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 11,375

Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc

Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Erik_A
I appreciate the "give" of steel over aluminum; but I could be wrong - especially for a race bike.
Maybe. It all depends on how sensitive you are to ground chatter, and how much you're willing to contend with. I rode a steel frame/fork last year and went with an Alu/carbon setup this year. Yes, there's some additional chatter at the rear-end, but the carbon fork quiets out the front end rather well. I find that the stiffness of the frame has more benefit in power transfer (especially when climbing) than any detriment to overall comfort.
__________________
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
CliftonGK1 is offline  
Old 06-27-12, 03:30 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
what frame and fork did you end up with?

Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
Maybe. It all depends on how sensitive you are to ground chatter, and how much you're willing to contend with. I rode a steel frame/fork last year and went with an Alu/carbon setup this year. Yes, there's some additional chatter at the rear-end, but the carbon fork quiets out the front end rather well. I find that the stiffness of the frame has more benefit in power transfer (especially when climbing) than any detriment to overall comfort.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-27-12, 06:26 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
Well, I switched gears trying to justify a custom high end steel frame vs a 4130 (welded in Taiwan) frame that wouldn't be much better than the Cross Check that I just sold.

I went ahead and bought a NOS: 60cm 2009 Cannondale CAAD9 CX9 cyclocross frame. The geometry is exactly what I would have ordered custom: a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube. I will install a All-City Nature Boy steel fork instead of carbon due to my heavy 220 lb body weight. Many have mentioned that the CAAD9 have a great ride quality, so I can't wait to find out.

I am fairly confident that other than carbon, this is the lightest frame that would safely hold up to my weight.


2009 - 60cm - CAAD9 GEOMETRY:

Horizontal Top Tube 600mm
Seat Tube Angle 73 deg
Head Tube Angle 73 deg
Chainstay Length 432mm
BB Height 290mm
Wheelbase 1057mm
Trail 59mm
Standover Height 876mm
Head Tube Length 200mm
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 06:41 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
Thanks again guys for all of your advice - it came down to the geometry and in order to get a 600mm top-tube and 200mm head-tube on a decent steel frame, I would have had to go custom - and I couldn't afford to do that presently. Eventually, I may sell all of my bikes and get a custom frame and just use different wheelsets for cross and road. Someday...
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 07:09 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
yea- the Gunnar looks to be a sweet ride. Got the C-dale for less than 1/2 (almost 1/3) the cost - and honestly that helped sway the decision. Now with the BB30 requiring new cranks; it may be a wash... I have heard that the C-dale CAAD9 with the wishbone rear-end makes for a fairly forgiving/ but stiff ride - not quite steel smooth though.


Not trying to be picky but a 62 or 64 Gunnar have a 60-ish top tube and 194 to 214 headtube..need the exact 60/200 for sizing??
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 08:08 AM
  #17  
Wheelsuck
 
Fat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,158
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You should be riding on big tires and low pressures. How much 'give' do you expect a rigid frame to have in comparison? Honestly, in my experience, tires are 95% of the equation.
Fat Boy is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 08:13 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
good point. On my steel Bianchi road bike - I ride 28mm tires at 110 psi - and love the vibration dampening of the steel frame. This C-dale is for cross, and will likely not be used for long road rides with high pressure tires.

Originally Posted by Fat Boy
You should be riding on big tires and low pressures. How much 'give' do you expect a rigid frame to have in comparison? Honestly, in my experience, tires are 95% of the equation.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 01:42 PM
  #19  
Wheelsuck
 
Fat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,158
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Erik_A
good point. On my steel Bianchi road bike - I ride 28mm tires at 110 psi - and love the vibration dampening of the steel frame. This C-dale is for cross, and will likely not be used for long road rides with high pressure tires.
Unless you're pretty heavy (i.e. 275#), this is too high. I often ride tires labeled as 28's that actually measure at 26.5mm. I ride them at 80 psi. True 28's you could probably take down another 10-20 psi.

I completely agree that a steel frame generally reduces the pass-through of vibrations (compared to AL), but the effect of tire pressure is much, much greater. When you also consider that a lower pressure may actually be better in terms of rolling resistance (unless you're riding a velodrome or a billiard table), it might be a win-win. Try it, you'll be surprised.
Fat Boy is offline  
Old 06-28-12, 02:00 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
I want to hear more about how lower pressure helps with better rolling resistance. I mainly do it to avoid pinch flats do to my weight. Glad to hear 80psi is usable though - that is much more comfy!

Originally Posted by Fat Boy
Unless you're pretty heavy (i.e. 275#), this is too high. I often ride tires labeled as 28's that actually measure at 26.5mm. I ride them at 80 psi. True 28's you could probably take down another 10-20 psi.

I completely agree that a steel frame generally reduces the pass-through of vibrations (compared to AL), but the effect of tire pressure is much, much greater. When you also consider that a lower pressure may actually be better in terms of rolling resistance (unless you're riding a velodrome or a billiard table), it might be a win-win. Try it, you'll be surprised.
Erik_A is offline  
Old 06-29-12, 09:32 AM
  #21  
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,785
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
From high end steel to 4130 Cross check the frame weight equals what, +1lb? Fork can be changed on any bike so consider that for weight reduction.

You went Alloy so you probably saved 2 lb over steel but then added a lb back on the fork. At 220 youre not "too heavy" for a carbon fork either, but youll be happy with what you chose I'm sure.
Have fun!
thenomad is offline  
Old 06-29-12, 10:43 AM
  #22  
Wheelsuck
 
Fat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,158
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
On 'rough' surfaces, a rigid tire will cause the whole bike to move up and down. This makes for a lot of rolling resistance. Now 'rough' is a moving target. Pro's race Roubaix at pressures down to the mid-50's. Of course, they are light and riding tubulars, so they don't worry too much about pinch-flats. It does show where their priorities are, though.

Have you ever actually gotten a pinch flat on the road? I've gotten exactly 1 and it was because I inadvertently hit a really rough part of a train track crossing. I think they really aren't too common.

Do me a favor. Drop your pressures to 90psi front and 100psi rear for a ride or 2, then report back.
Fat Boy is offline  
Old 06-29-12, 11:39 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
CliftonGK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 11,375

Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc

Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Erik_A
what frame and fork did you end up with?
I went with a 2011 RL Conquest Pro; the Alu/CF version before the 2012 full carbon model came out.
__________________
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
CliftonGK1 is offline  
Old 06-29-12, 12:51 PM
  #24  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,595

Bikes: 8

Liked 1,361 Times in 867 Posts
Have a pretty light steel TIG welded Pinarello Cross frame,
would shave a little off
if it had a lighter uni-crown fork rather than a cast crown,
but that is minor.

It replaced an AlAn cross super..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 06-30-12, 11:04 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
WolfsBane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Most competition bike frames, regardless of material used, are designed by manufacturers for riders that are between 145 lbs and 170lbs in mind, because people that do compete in events are, on the average, around that weight range. This is one of the reasons that when a 230 lbs customer tells a serious custom wheel builder that they want him or her to build them a set of "bomb proof" light wheels that they can put on a light road or off road bike, if that wheel builder is honest, he or she will usually tell them to get their weight down to at least 170 lbs, and give them a call back. A lightweight frame will start behaving unpredictably when you start putting 200lbs or more weight on it, and even more if that bike then has to take on gravel or broken pavement. Some manufacturers have started addressing this issue with bikes that have a beefier set of top tube and down tubes. Waterford Precision Cycles, for example, also makes the Gunnar brand of bicycles, which in turn has a lineup of cyclocross frames. They have their original CX frame, the Crosshairs, with their regular OS2 Air Hardening tube set. They have their new disk based competition frame, the Hyper X. And finally they have their heavy duty frame, the Fastlane, which has a beefier sset of the OS2 Air Hardening top tubes and down tubes. Not only can they accommodate a heavier rider, they can also double as a lightweight touring machine if set up properly. The downside with the Fastlane, is that the beefier tube set make the bike a little heavier. But what you trade in weight, you gain in pure comfort enjoyment and resilience.
WolfsBane is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.