Surly Straggler
Just visited my lbs and ordered the Surly Straggler I have been wanting. Went with the purple color which should fit the attitude of the bike. Decided to upgrade to the 105 brifters and rd. Probably will add a Brooks B-17 soon. I sure hope it plays well with the rest of my fleet.
Mike |
Nice choice.
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A great all purpose bike. What tires?
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The stock 42 Knards for now. I am very interested to get it and contrast it to my trek Damone. You guys are right it should be a great all around bike.
mike |
I love mine as an all around bike. Right now I have it set for general road riding and commuting with 28mm tires but I have others for dirt and touring.
http://i.imgur.com/qGV3Jg1.jpg |
Glad to hear you like your Straggler. I hope to pick mine up this weekend and begin enjoying it.
Mike |
If I were to buy a NEW steel-framed bike again, Surly would definitely be the brand. I still miss the Cross Check I gave to my son a few years back. Unfortunately, there are already three 30-year old steel bikes competing for space in the garage with 2 carbon-framed models. And a car. And a motorcycle. If I buy another bicycle, I'll be sleeping out there too.
Enjoy yours. I'm jealous. |
I will give a brief review once I get it and have a chance to ride a few miles.
Mike |
Why Surly? They seem overpriced for a pretty ordinary (and heavy) 4130 steel frame... Great marketing though, so good resell value.
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Steel is real... and Surly builds great bikes with it.
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pretty serious headtube stack going on there.
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Originally Posted by Erik_A
(Post 16851880)
Why Surly? They seem overpriced for a pretty ordinary (and heavy) 4130 steel frame... Great marketing though, so good resell value.
Therefore, whatever advantage steel lacks in bicycle frame advantages for the cyclist, it more than compensates for, in added years of comfortable service. Many cyclists who've invested in steel bicycles have been rewarded with the comfortable ride of steel for decades. I'm most certain that's a most salient fact considered, when the more prudent cyclists concerned about both comfort and longevity, select a Surly whenever bicycle shopping. If you'd spend some time researching more factual information, you'd soon discover, that most 4130 and 520 double butted versions of steel tubed bicycles, outweigh their aluminum siblings by only a couple of pounds, at the most. In some cases, aluminum bicycle frames even outweigh certain proprietary steel tubed ones, that have alloy compositions and processes very similar to that of 4130 steel. Therefore, we should all thank Surly for bringing us the Straggler! :thumb: PS. Jamis makes an aluminum framed road bicycle called, the Ventura. It also makes a steel framed bicycle, called the Quest. The following are weights of each: Jamis Road Bike Relative Weights Ventura Sport = 23.00 lbs. Quest Sport = 25.00 lbs. Venture Comp = 21.00 lbs. Quest Comp = 23.00 lbs. |
I love steel as well, and have a similar LeMond Poprad that I traded in my Surly Cross-Check for. I am just wondering why people love. Surly frames so passionately. IE you could buy this entire bike for half the price of a Surly and get 4130 a steel frame of the same quality: Save Up to 60% Off Touring Bikes | Commuting | Commuter Bikes | Motobecane Bikes - Gran Turismo for touring the country there is nothing better and the 2 frames may actually be welded at the same Taiwanese factory, from the same steel tubing.
Or for an extra $100 ($800 total) get Reynolds 520: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...remio_xiii.htm |
Originally Posted by Erik_A
(Post 16852446)
I love steel as well, and have a similar LeMond Poprad that I traded in my Surly Cross-Check for. I am just wondering why people love. Surly frames so passionately. IE you could buy this entire bike for half the price of a Surly and get 4130 a steel frame of the same quality: Save Up to 60% Off Touring Bikes | Commuting | Commuter Bikes | Motobecane Bikes - Gran Turismo for touring the country there is nothing better and the 2 frames may actually be welded at the same Taiwanese factory, from the same steel tubing.
Or for an extra $100 ($800 total) get Reynolds 520: Save Up To 60% Off Pro Level Steel Road Bikes | Commuting | Commuter Bikes | Motobecane Gran Premio PRO Bikesdirect has managed to slay Goliath, the giant middleman! That's how they are able to charge such discounted prices for their bicycles. You order it, and they then ship it! That's it! :) |
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852288)
Surly, Salsa, SOMA, Jamis, Raleigh, Gunnar, Waterford, and Traitor, are just a few of the last bicycle companies remaining, that produce steel bicycles.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852288)
There once was a time when there were no other choices outside of steel. Though, our frame choices were limited, the longevity our bicycles sure wasn't. Some of the bicycles that we purchased back then are still going strong. Some will continue to render good service for even more decades to come. That's only due to the fact that steel doesn't suffer the same fatigue issues experienced by aluminum. Steel has a fatigue limit, below which, it can encounter an infinite number of stress cycles. Aluminum has no such limit. It will most definitely suffer material failure after some finite number of stress cycles.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852288)
Therefore, whatever advantage steel lacks in bicycle frame advantages for the cyclist, it more than compensates for, in added years of comfortable service. Many cyclists who've invested in steel bicycles have been rewarded with the comfortable ride of steel for decades. I'm most certain that's a most salient fact considered, when the more prudent cyclists concerned about both comfort and longevity, select a Surly whenever bicycle shopping.
As for comfort, that's laughable. I've had a Surly LHT and a Surly Cross-Check, and they are great bikes, but not because they are comfortable; in fact, every Surly I've ever ridden rides like a brick. They are commodity frames built with thick-walled, extremely stiff tubing. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make a comfortable bike. If you think a Surly has the "magic ride of steel," it's only because you've never ridden a GOOD steel frame.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852288)
If you'd spend some time researching more factual information, you'd soon discover, that most 4130 and 520 double butted versions of steel tubed bicycles, outweigh their aluminum siblings by only a couple of pounds, at the most. In some cases, aluminum bicycle frames even outweigh certain proprietary steel tubed ones, that have alloy compositions and processes very similar to that of 4130 steel.
Relevant information: ALL of my bicycles are steel. I like steel just fine. I do not like puffed-up, uninformed BS. |
Congrats Mike in DSM...from Keith in Ankeny aka the OldSurlyBastard; A "PacerFan"!!!!
Mike: Congrats on your purchase of the Surly Straggler!!! I see that you're here in DSM...Which LBS did you purchase your Straggler from??? I'm a very satisfied Surly owner as of this May here in DSM/Ankeny!!! Built a SURLY PACER and have about 650 miles on it since I started riding it in early May. I love it!!!! Ultegra 30 speed drivetrain etc. It's a WONDERFUL RIDE!!!!
In Reference to:
Originally Posted by grolby
(Post 16852763)
The implication that steel bikes are fading in popularity and are only made by a small handful of manufacturers is simply false. Steel remains by far the most common material for bicycle frames.
As for comfort, that's laughable. I've had a Surly LHT and a Surly Cross-Check, and they are great bikes, but not because they are comfortable; in fact, every Surly I've ever ridden rides like a brick. They are commodity frames built with thick-walled, extremely stiff tubing. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make a comfortable bike. If you think a Surly has the "magic ride of steel," it's only because you've never ridden a GOOD steel frame. "A couple of pounds," at typical bicycle weights, is a HUGE amount to gain or remove from a single component. Downplaying a roughly 10% difference to the total weight of a bicycle is being hugely disingenuous about the difference in weight that a steel frame can make. Relevant information: ALL of my bicycles are steel. I like steel just fine. I do not like puffed-up, uninformed BS. And whether you ride steel, aluminum, titanium or carbon, find what makes riding fun for you and just pedal!!!! Old Surly Bastard: Keith in Ankeny |
Originally Posted by grolby
(Post 16852763)
The implication that steel bikes are fading in popularity and are only made by a small handful of manufacturers is simply false. Steel remains by far the most common material for bicycle frames.
If you go to just about any brick & mortar bicycle shop, you'll see practically nothing but aluminum and carbon bicycles available. If you visit just about any online bicycle distributor, you see that the overwhelming number of bicycles are dressed in either aluminum or carbon, and most definitely NOT steel! Go ahead, check 'em for yourself: www.performancebike.com Bikes, Cycling Clothing, Bike Parts & Cycling Gear: Bike Discounts & Deals from Nashbar Save Up To 60% Off Road Bikes, Bicycles, Mountain Bikes and Bicycles with Bikesdirect.com, New with full warranties Jenson USA - Online mountain & road bike parts, clothing and accessories shop | Jenson USA Bikes and Bicycles Online from Evans Cycles | UK Online Bike Shop Kinesis is one of the largest bicycle producers in the entire world. Most of their bicycles are made of aluminum, not steel. Steel is much more expensive to use for bicycle production. Although extracting aluminum from bauxite ore is more expensive than extracting iron from its ores, recycling aluminum from already produced products is much less expensive. That's what the industry observed many years ago and decided to go with aluminum. Besides, how many bicycles will the average cyclist purchase within an adult's lifetime? If steel is available, just one, or possibly even two. However, with aluminum, the number increases, due to it's fatigue issue. You do know that aluminum has that property, don't you? It has less to do with the way that the bicycle frame is constructed, than the material with which the bicycle is made. An aluminum bicycle is made of aluminum. Since aluminum is an element, it comes with certain specific properties. Having no fatigue limit, and being subject to material failure as a result of the lack of that limit, is just one of many salient features that aluminum possesses. Engineers and designers work together in order to conceal that particular weakness when it comes to aluminum. To that extent, construction is important when it comes to cycling and increasing the number of stress cycles require before material failure occurs. However, its failure will most inevitably occur! Not because of the way that it is designed, but despite the way in which it is designed! That's an integral property of aluminum, it suffers from fatigue, just from ordinary use. This is simply NOT the case with steel. If you keep steel dry and don't abuse it, it will last for centuries, performing the same routine duties, most reliably... Yes, steel has a "fatigue limit," but this irrelevant when it comes to bicycle frame life. There are two major reasons for this. First, bicycles, aircraft, etc, built with aluminum are designed such that normal fatigue should not cause a failure in a lifetime of use. That doesn't mean fatigue failure is impossible, as it depends upon the frame, how it is assembled, damage and a host of other factors. Second, although steel itself has a fatigue limit, steel frames almost certainly do not and have a finite lifespan just as aluminum frames do. Steel frames absolutely accumulate fatigue stress and do eventually fail from it. Yes, including notoriously overbuilt Surlys - I've heard of multiple Surly frames that eventually failed from fatigue. That's not because there's anything wrong with Surly frames, and they are certainly not dangerous. But a frame of joined metal tubing is absolutely subject to fatigue stress, no matter what it is made from. As for comfort, that's laughable. I've had a Surly LHT and a Surly Cross-Check, and they are great bikes, but not because they are comfortable; in fact, every Surly I've ever ridden rides like a brick. They are commodity frames built with thick-walled, extremely stiff tubing. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make a comfortable bike. If you think a Surly has the "magic ride of steel," it's only because you've never ridden a GOOD steel frame. "A couple of pounds," at typical bicycle weights, is a HUGE amount to gain or remove from a single component. Downplaying a roughly 10% difference to the total weight of a bicycle is being hugely disingenuous about the difference in weight that a steel frame can make. In terms of maintaining momentum, added weight actually works to the cyclist's advantage. Of course, on rough terrain and uphill climbs, the added weight becomes a burden. However, the cyclist could just as easily lose two pounds in order to compensate for the gained weight in steel. At any rate, the extra weight is more than compensated, when you can forgo the cost of a brand new bicycle, two decades later. |
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
Have you been living under a rock or something?
No. Steel remains by far the most popular material for bikes. It has been mostly replaced at the high end with aluminum and carbon fiber, but the majority of bikes out there are not high end.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
Besides, how many bicycles will the average cyclist purchase within an adult's lifetime? If steel is available, just one, or possibly even two. However, with aluminum, the number increases, due to it's fatigue issue. You do know that aluminum has that property, don't you? It has less to do with the way that the bicycle frame is constructed, than the material with which the bicycle is made.
As for fatigue limit, you are willfully missing the point. Yes, steel has a fatigue limit below which stress cycles do not cause it to accumulate fatigue, and aluminum does not. But steel bicycle frames are not built with this limit in mind and are basically guaranteed to be too lightly built to have an infinite fatigue life.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
An aluminum bicycle is made of aluminum. Since aluminum is an element, it comes with certain specific properties. Having no fatigue limit, and being subject to material failure as a result of the lack of that limit, is just one of many salient features that aluminum possesses. Engineers and designers work together in order to conceal that particular weakness when it comes to aluminum. To that extent, construction is important when it comes to cycling and increasing the number of stress cycles require before material failure occurs. However, its failure will most inevitably occur! Not because of the way that it is designed, but despite the way in which it is designed! That's an integral property of aluminum, it suffers from fatigue, just from ordinary use. This is simply NOT the case with steel. If you keep steel dry and don't abuse it, it will last for centuries, performing the same routine duties, most reliably...
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
If a steel bicycle frame breaks or fractures, it will most likely do so at one of its weakest points, which would be at a weld joint. If this should occur, the joint can be quite easily welded again and resume its original strength.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
As previously stated, unless steel has suffered from either corrosion or abuse (in which case, its fatigue limit would be exceeded), it will perform indefinitely without any fatigue issues resulting from ordinary operation. The same applies to steel bicycle frames. Whenever steel does exhibit signs of failure, it will most assuredly be linked with some form of physical abuse within that specific area of damage.
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
It's common knowledge that for years steel was known to be much more comfortable than aluminum. However, due to much needed aluminum frame development in technology, engineers and designers have made aluminum frames more tolerable than whatever they were in the past. However, they just aren't as comfortable as steel, overall. In general, steel bicycles dampen road vibrations more so than aluminum frames do. The same can be applied to steel and aluminum forks too!
Originally Posted by WestPablo
(Post 16852906)
When one correctly evaluates the weight of a moving bicycle, one has to include both the weight of the bicycle and its cyclist. As long as the cyclist isn't racing, the weight of only two pounds is hardly noticeable.
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This is the Cross Check with disk brakes.
Nice bike! :) |
Originally Posted by Erik_A
(Post 16852446)
I love steel as well, and have a similar LeMond Poprad that I traded in my Surly Cross-Check for. I am just wondering why people love. Surly frames so passionately. IE you could buy this entire bike for half the price of a Surly and get 4130 a steel frame of the same quality: Save Up to 60% Off Touring Bikes | Commuting | Commuter Bikes | Motobecane Bikes - Gran Turismo for touring the country there is nothing better and the 2 frames may actually be welded at the same Taiwanese factory, from the same steel tubing.
Or for an extra $100 ($800 total) get Reynolds 520: Save Up To 60% Off Pro Level Steel Road Bikes | Commuting | Commuter Bikes | Motobecane Gran Premio PRO |
Originally Posted by grolby
(Post 16853067)
You're delusional. People usually don't replace bicycles because of frame failure, which is rare for any frame, and any enthusiast will own more than one or two bicycles in their lifetime. This has nothing to do with the frame material.
Most people who purchase bicycles, do so for recreational and health reasons. The sport enthusiast is indeed a minority. Therefore, to simply insert the "enthusiast" into some kind of nonexistent data pool is inane, to say the least. It's most certainly statistically absurd! To say that the number of bicycles purchased within a lifetime has nothing to do with frame material, is scientifically erroneous, due to the simple fact that all materials have different properties. Some are just plain inferior to others when it comes to both function and longevity, due to their inherent intensive properties. As for fatigue limit, you are willfully missing the point. Yes, steel has a fatigue limit below which stress cycles do not cause it to accumulate fatigue, and aluminum does not. But steel bicycle frames are not built with this limit in mind and are basically guaranteed to be too lightly built to have an infinite fatigue life. That's the most scientifically baseless statement you've made thus far! What do you mean " steel bicycle frames...are basically guaranteed to be too lightly built to have an infinite fatigue life."? There is no way possible for a fatigue limit to be built into or taken away from a material, simply by design. That is an inherent consequence of the material itself, physically derived from its intensive molecular or elemental properties. OTOH, an object can be deliberately built to fail, but that has nothing to do with the definition of fatigue limit or fatigue life. Since you seem to be having a hard time grasping this point, I'll reiterate it: the stresses imposed on steel frames from normal riding exceed the fatigue limit of steel. A steel frame ridden enough will eventually suffer fatigue failure. This might take 100,000 miles of riding. It might take a million or ten million. Thin-walled tubular steel is extremely difficult to repair by welding, and the skill and equipment to do a good job at it are pretty much only found in framebuilding shops. Your typical welded steel repair is both weaker than the original joint AND incredibly ugly, and should be considered an emergency step only. Without getting too much into the issue of weight and whether or not it matters (it does, for more than just performance) - you're shifting the goalposts here. If you're saying the right way of evaluating the weight of a bicycle has to include the weight of the rider, why were you listing just bike weights from the Jamis catalogue? You don't have the intellectual honesty to admit when you've been called out - in evaluating just the structure of a pair of bicycle frames that do the same job, if one weighs one to two pounds more, that is a massive difference. 10% of the weight of a complete bike, and perhaps 50% or 100% considering just the frame. |
Originally Posted by grolby
(Post 16853067)
As for fatigue limit, you are willfully missing the point. Yes, steel has a fatigue limit below which stress cycles do not cause it to accumulate fatigue, and aluminum does not. But steel bicycle frames are not built with this limit in mind and are basically guaranteed to be too lightly built to have an infinite fatigue life.
What folks are really talking about is "endurance limit" -- the stress at which a material can take an unlimited number of cycles. Research has shown that no such limit exists for steel or Aluminum ... enough cycles at any level will cause failure in both materials. However, because there is a "knee" in the Fatigue Limit curve for steel and no such behavior for Aluminum, steel can withstand many orders of magnitude more cycles at low stress than Aluminum. Of course all of this is for "smooth" samples. As soon as you notch, bend, double/triple butt or weld, all this theoretical Fatigue Limit stuff goes out the window. Bottom line is that very few frames of any material will ever fail due to the material's inherent Fatigue Limit. And since you can make a comfortable frame out of any material and you can make a brutal bone shaker out of any material, the "qualities" of a frame all boil down to design. |
It seems to me that the discussion in this thread is getting too heated, and a couple of people need to back off or I'm going to start deleting posts and getting it back on topic.
Material wars are so '90s anyway. What next, carbon esplodes? |
Originally Posted by catonec
(Post 16852000)
pretty serious headtube stack going on there.
To get this thread back on track, let's talk tire fit. I fit a 2.35" 29er tire on my front! It has next to no clearance on the fork legs but this means I can use some other narrower 29er tires. http://i.imgur.com/blUKaLL.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3UL4QGs.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Z8R3fhb.jpg?2 |
Congrats! My Daughters new Straggler is so cool, I want one for myself!
1 Attachment(s)
My daughters graduation present is so cool, I've been thinking about a Straggler as my all around bike too!
Check hers out! http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=387374 |
Originally Posted by unterhausen
(Post 16853538)
It seems to me that the discussion in this thread is getting too heated, and a couple of people need to back off or I'm going to start deleting posts and getting it back on topic.
Material wars are so '90s anyway. What next, carbon esplodes? The Straggler is a good frame. Should be good fun! |
Originally Posted by PBR ME
(Post 16854215)
My daughters graduation present is so cool, I've been thinking about a Straggler as my all around bike too!
Check hers out! http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=387374 |
Originally Posted by OldSurlyBastard
(Post 16852846)
Mike: Congrats on your purchase of the Surly Straggler!!! I see that you're here in DSM...Which LBS did you purchase your Straggler from??? I'm a very satisfied Surly owner as of this May here in DSM/Ankeny!!! Built a SURLY PACER and have about 650 miles on it since I started riding it in early May. I love it!!!! Ultegra 30 speed drivetrain etc. It's a WONDERFUL RIDE!!!!
In Reference to: My experience has not been what grolby's has been in terms of ride. My Pacer is smooth, comfortable and the handling is quick and responsive. The couple of 40-50 mile rides I've done have been very enjoyable; not like riding a "brick". Average speeds 16.4 - 17.3 and my normal average ride is about 25 miles. The Pacer weighed in @ 23.05 on the LBS scale on the day we completed the build. I figure that if I need to carry less weight, then it isn't the bike that needs to lose 5 pounds; it's me :thumb:!!! Mike: Enjoy the Straggler; Maybe I'll see you on the trails (I live in and ride out of Ankeny most days!!! Just look for the Disco Tomato Red roadie). And whether you ride steel, aluminum, titanium or carbon, find what makes riding fun for you and just pedal!!!! Old Surly Bastard: Keith in Ankeny Mike |
Just test drove it and loved it. Another satisfied customer here. Got the black version one!
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I love the way mine feels like it can handle most any surface. Reminds me of the bike a we had as kids.
Mike |
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