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Front brake chatter

Old 04-04-05, 01:15 PM
  #26  
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darkmother, thanks I'll give it a try, these Canti's are new, so they should be tight nuff for now... I've been hunting for some avid's are they not as good as say some old school XT's?
 
Old 04-04-05, 01:37 PM
  #27  
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Yeah, my tectros are brand spankin' new too. No problems on the back, but on the front, no way. Old XT's are pretty sweet, if you can find a set.
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Old 04-05-05, 10:56 PM
  #28  
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Brake chatter on CX forks
 
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Originally Posted by darkmother
Ok, so I finally got rid of my brake chatter over the weekend. I tried a bunch of different combinations. In summary:
Tectro avid shortie clones + steer tube mounted cable stop = high amplitude low speed chatter

Tectro cantis + fork mount cable stop = low amplitude, higher frequency chatter. Still too much.

V brake + travel agent = no chatter. Don't really like the travel agent though, kind of like fixing something with duct tape.

Diacompe 987 canti + steer tube cable hanger= high frequency low amplitude chatter.

Diacompe 987 + fork cable hanger = smooth braking!
I wish that I could use a fork crown mounted cable hanger, but for some wierd reason the fork (that I ordered from my LBS ) doesnt have any eylets in the droputs or the crown. Even though its identical to the Winwood fork.

Let me/us know if the chatter ever comes back. I've noticed that whenever I think I've eliminated chatter, it always seems to come back. (not to curse you or anything)
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Old 04-06-05, 10:11 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Wil
ILet me/us know if the chatter ever comes back. I've noticed that whenever I think I've eliminated chatter, it always seems to come back. (not to curse you or anything)
I bet a v-brake + travel agent, or tektro mini V's will help. Not sure if you're willing to go that route though. I really hope I don't have to mess with brake chatter any more. I've had enough.
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Old 04-06-05, 04:40 PM
  #30  
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Have you ever been to a cyclocross race? I saw one last November in which the start area was at the bottom of a little hill, with the parking lot at top. Almost all the bikes squealed when the riders braked coming down the hill. I knew I wasn't alone in my brake problems.

I've spent way too much time trying to fix chatter and squeal. It's voodoo, but I've managed to get it to work for now. I've had it on various combinations of a steel fork (Kona Project 2, I think), a carbon fork (Winwood muddy w/disc mounts), with Avid Shorties, Shimano's new cantis, and Tektro Oryx brakes.

In my experience, there's no set formula to fix chatter and squeal. I'd try the following:
- Toe-in.
- Toe-out. After the front of my pads wore down from being toed in, I decided to toe them out. The braking is better than it was before, and there's absolutely no squeal now. I was surprised that this worked so well because I had never heard it mentioned before.
- Try new brakes. In my experience, the Shorties were the squealiest. The Shimanos are good, but the Tektros work well and were quite inexpensive. Nashbar sells its own rebranded version of them.

I picked up a fork-mounted cable stop (Tektro 1272AF) from my local shop that I might put on if it starts acting up again. Has anyone used one of these on a carbon fork? It looks like it will need to be ground down and used with a thick washer because the mounting surface of the carbon fork is quite different from most steel or aluminum forks. namaste1978 - it looks like your fork is similar to my Winwood carbon -- what did you have to do to make it work?
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Old 04-06-05, 04:47 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by winston
Have you ever been to a cyclocross race? I saw one last November in which the start area was at the bottom of a little hill, with the parking lot at top. Almost all the bikes squealed when the riders braked coming down the hill. I knew I wasn't alone in my brake problems.
So why haven't engineers/designers worked to fix the problem?

As I wrote above "The question I wonder is why do designers/manufacturers design these stock CX bikes that have such a chatter problem. Why hasn't there been any solutions/designs that address the problem? Do touring bikes that also use same type of brakes have this problem?"

It seems it is also a safety problem as the chatter can get so bad it can nearly shake you off the bars on a hard stop.

Al
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Old 04-06-05, 06:24 PM
  #32  
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It seems it is also a safety problem as the chatter can get so bad it can nearly shake you off the bars on a hard stop.
That was my thought as well. My tourer is no cross bike, but I've mounted some pretty powerful cantis on it (dia-compe knock offs of mafac touring cantis - the ones the stick waaaay out), and even adjusted for maximum mechanical advantage, there is no chatter (*knocks wood*.) The tourer has BEEFY forks.

How much fork flex is going on here?
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Old 04-07-05, 07:14 AM
  #33  
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The fork flex is the "spring" that drives the chatter. All things being equal, a stiffer fork should lower the amplitude of the chatter and raise the frequency. At some point, it will dissapear. I think at least part of the problem is that cross bikes are using some pretty light, flexible forks. If you look at old rigid fork MTB's, they had some seriously beefy, heavy cro mo forks. I think the light weight aluminum and carbon forks that are popular today just aren't stiff enough.

It is maddening that such a widespread problem has not been addressed. Perhaps the cross market is too small?
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Old 04-10-05, 08:04 PM
  #34  
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Might be the brake studs or the brackets that they are bolted to...also, there is some play between the ID of the brake and the OD of the brake stud. I have a Pauls on one of my bikes and they work fine since the fit between the brake and the stud is fairly tight. But, on another bike, I have Radius' on it and it just squeals like crazy and there is some play when I grab the brake and move it around. I know the legs of the fork will have some torsional play so that can be another thing to look at.
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Old 06-13-05, 02:52 AM
  #35  
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The reason why Iím bothered with brake chatter has to do with the headset loosing up all the time.
It seems to me that a standard 36/45ļ alu cup design like Ritchey and Cane Creek just donít do it.
Surfing around, a lot of steel cups or at least steel lower cup designs showed up, but many of them also 36/45ļ standard cartridge.

Iím now about to squeeze in a much better design. Havenít quite decided between a standard Chris King and some other heavy duty stuff.
Maybe Syncros Hardcore (Read Ritchey. T.R. bought the company some time ago)

I recon brake chatter will be history after this.

BTW. Iím using Alpha Q CX fork (and or Winwood muddy), Paulís NeoRetro and Ceramic rims.
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