Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
Reload this Page >

Who knows a bit about geometry or fit? I might need a new cross bike.

Notices
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Who knows a bit about geometry or fit? I might need a new cross bike.

Old 12-15-14, 10:14 PM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Who knows a bit about geometry or fit? I might need a new cross bike.

Here it is. I have a cross bike (2010 Colnago World Cup Cross) that I really like. The Problem is, I can't ride it for very long distances with out getting sore and just feeling worn out. Now I have a road bike (Cervelo R3) Which is so comfortable, I feel I can ride it all day. I have had the X bike fitted twice by two different shops. The one that fitted me to my R3 and one shop that specializes in cross bikes. And the shop that did it the second time, had my R3 there as well to try and match the measurements. Both are 56cm. So I was thinking, is the geometry on the Colnago cross just that much different than the R3? What would be a good cross bike that might fit me better. I am looking in the $1500 to $2K range. Disks and something that I can use for the commute. I prefer a Xbike as it is a bit more sporty to me. What do ya think?
jaydubu is offline  
Old 12-16-14, 03:54 PM
  #2  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jaydubu
Here it is. I have a cross bike (2010 Colnago World Cup Cross) that I really like. The Problem is, I can't ride it for very long distances with out getting sore and just feeling worn out. Now I have a road bike (Cervelo R3) Which is so comfortable, I feel I can ride it all day. I have had the X bike fitted twice by two different shops. The one that fitted me to my R3 and one shop that specializes in cross bikes. And the shop that did it the second time, had my R3 there as well to try and match the measurements. Both are 56cm. So I was thinking, is the geometry on the Colnago cross just that much different than the R3? What would be a good cross bike that might fit me better. I am looking in the $1500 to $2K range. Disks and something that I can use for the commute. I prefer a Xbike as it is a bit more sporty to me. What do ya think?
really? No one?
jaydubu is offline  
Old 12-16-14, 04:45 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Kopsis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jaydubu
... I can't ride it for very long distances with out getting sore and just feeling worn out.
Not very descriptive. How long is long? Where are you sore? Does "worn out" mean localized or general fatigue? Are you riding with similar gearing? Similar tires? It's hard to help when there's so little to work with.

How successful (from a numbers standpoint) was the fitter that tried to match your R3 fit? If he/she got the contact points to match, then geometry differences shouldn't matter. If that wasn't successful, then knowing what couldn't be matched is key to knowing how the geometry needs to change.

If it's just a general fatigue thing, it could very well be that frame design differences are resulting in a much harsher ride on the CX bike. Comfort isn't usually a priority in CX frame design. Soft tires, short races, and an immense amount of pain from the effort mean that CX racers don't really care much how a frame rides (as long as it's good and stiff for power transfer).

Lots of possibilities. Don't immediately try to jump to a solution until you're sure you understand root cause.
Kopsis is offline  
Old 12-16-14, 05:51 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
macca33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: West Gippy, Australia
Posts: 607

Bikes: 2017 Ridley Noah SL - Candy Apple DA9000, 2011 CAAD10 Berzerker Ult6800, 2013 FOCUS Mares CX Ult6800

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Seems a bit odd to me, to be honest.

I have CAAD10s and a Focus Mares CX and take the 58cm for both. The Mares had a lower frame front end, but taller forks, so my positions are the same on all bikes and all feel good to ride long distances.

Aside from the different bikes, are the bars, crank lengths, etc - similar, or different?

Is the bottom bracket position higher on the CX bike, yet not accommodated for by the set-up?

How does your position look on both bikes - similar or different?

Is it simply a case that you have to work a little bit harder on the CX bike, compared to the Cervelo?

cheers
macca33 is offline  
Old 12-16-14, 11:04 PM
  #5  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well you got me thinking. Yeah the cervelo is all dura ace with DA wheels and the cross is probably a bit heavier with 105 and r500 wheels and I usually try to ride the same rides at the same avg. speed. I just want the cross to be able to do long distance riding. My hands will ache in the palms at times. And I guess it is general fatigue.
jaydubu is offline  
Old 12-17-14, 11:45 AM
  #6  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,357 Times in 863 Posts
Walk into the places that sell them ?.. test ride ask the staff about stem swaps to improve the reach to the bars , to suit your body.

maybe the set up on your bike is too CX Race Agressive, and next one leave the steerer tube as Long as practical so you sit Up a little bit More.
(Or buy a new Fork leave the steerer (metal) long and ride it before sawing it off short..

Geometry ? get data downloads from the manufacturers , perhaps ?

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-18-14 at 12:38 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 12-17-14, 04:55 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,548
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18426 Post(s)
Liked 4,544 Times in 3,376 Posts
I'm not sure about different needs for cyclocross vs road riding. However, you should be able to put the two bikes next to each other and adjust the seat and bars so they are in the same relative position to the bottom bracket. Even put the same "road seat" onto your Cross bike.

Good point about different gearing. Also consider different weight of the bikes and tires just making the Cross bike not as comfortable for really long rides. Are you choosing to use them on different terrain too?
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-17-14, 05:29 PM
  #8  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,574

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 513 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7387 Post(s)
Liked 2,546 Times in 1,481 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
I'm not sure about different needs for cyclocross vs road riding. However, you should be able to put the two bikes next to each other and adjust the seat and bars so they are in the same relative position to the bottom bracket. Even put the same "road seat" onto your Cross bike.
Right. I took measurements of my most comfortable bike and am replicating them on my other bikes. Start with seat height. Then drop a plumb bob from the front tip of the saddle and measure the distance between it and the BB. Once you get the fore-aft position right, then and only then can you adjust the handlebar height and fore-aft position right.

There is a fit section of bikeforums you may want to check out.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 12-17-14, 05:38 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,791

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 527 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3265 Post(s)
Liked 3,980 Times in 1,470 Posts
If comfort is your goal and you have a bike that feels the way you want it to, fit is pretty simple. Imagine a triangle formed by the saddle, the bottom bracket and the handlebars. Make the second bike have the same triangle that the bike you're happy with. This is usually reasonably easy if the two bikes are about the same size.

Of course, that neglects how you are actually planning to use the bike. Since the cross bike is meant to go off-road, the fit needs to accommodate all sorts of body weight shifts, unweighting the saddle, using your arms and legs for shock absorption, etc. But if you're willing to compromise these things and just want the same fit and feel that you have on the road bike, tell your fitter that and he/she should be able to make it happen.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 12-18-14, 10:34 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 345

Bikes: 2012 BMC SLR01, 2012 Yeti ASR5, 2013 Trek Crockett

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Matching the fit on your road bike might not be ideal for commuting. It is a good starting point though.

I use my cross bike to race CX and commute. My fit on it pretty much matches my mountain bike fit. The seat is a touch lower, and the cockpit puts me in a more upright position. I commute with a backpack, and am not sure I would be as comfortable doing that with the more aggressive position on my road bike.

Everyone is different though so you need to find the fit that works for you.
xjustice09x is offline  
Old 12-18-14, 10:40 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,463

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5898 Post(s)
Liked 3,513 Times in 2,094 Posts
The single biggest factor in comfort is tire size; everything else being equal, a larger volume lower pressure tire makes the bike a bit more comfortable to ride. So if your cx bike is set up right, it should be more comfortable than your road bike.
bikemig is offline  
Old 12-18-14, 10:52 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
tarwheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,896

Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I had a similar issue with a size 58 Gunnar Crosshairs I bought last fall. On paper it looked like a good fit, but I could never get comfortable on it. I eventually got it to fit better by meticulously checking the measurements on my other bikes and replicating them as close as possible on the Crosshairs. The spec that seemed to be off was the fore-aft placement of the saddle in relation to the BB, and the head tube was also too short, but I suspect that the seat tube angle or BB drop may have also been issues. I finally ended up selling the Crosshairs and replacing it with a size 56 Soma Saga, which has a top tube that is 1.5 cm shorter, and it fit perfectly from the very first ride.
tarwheel is offline  
Old 12-23-14, 03:26 PM
  #13  
You rode how far???
 
GamecockTaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 579

Bikes: '96 Trek 830; 06 Cervelo Soloist, 06 Scott Scale 70, 2013 Cervelo S2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
just spend the money to find an R3Mud and be done with it.
GamecockTaco is offline  
Old 12-23-14, 04:38 PM
  #14  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,357 Times in 863 Posts
Only have influence on geometry if you are Not buying an off the shelf frame , and instead ordering it Custom.

Dont overthink it . Top Tube length and seat tube length vary with 'size'.

the company sorted it all out and transmitted the specs to one of the Taiwan Contract Factories .

people just have Brand Favorites

Racing bikes are not about Comfort , they are a Performance Tool .


maybe you would like a Nice Recumbent ?

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-23-14 at 04:46 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
artesin
Road Cycling
13
01-11-15 11:48 AM
mtnclimber
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
5
03-28-11 05:08 PM
sam83
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
2
02-09-11 11:42 AM
damnable
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
18
02-08-11 02:35 PM
maxandersonjr
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
5
08-17-10 05:13 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.