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Mbikes faster than CX on most US courses?

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Mbikes faster than CX on most US courses?

Old 09-25-16, 04:19 PM
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Mtbikes faster than CX on most US courses?

For common races in the US the tire-width rule isn't enforced. Many use Mtbikes. Quite a few now use Fatbikes. Both types are doing very well. Finishing very high. Winning.

Nowadays mtbikes and even fatties can weigh about the same as a common CX bike.

Both mtb's and fatties will always have more contact patch and more cush in the tire. Isn't that the key to CX success on a common course?

Aren't those of us hewing to CX bikes just going slower and riding rougher for no good reason than masochism?

When is a CX bike a better choice? (Other than when there's an official w a measure-device.) ...When the course is fast and smooth enough that drop bars help and skinny tires don't hinder and there's enough running w the bike that saving a couple lbs is faster? ...How many courses are like that?

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Old 09-26-16, 01:02 PM
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PS: Our local top CXer was riding our CX course w us the other day on his mtbike and he was saying, Yep, this thing is a lot faster. Maybe it doesn't make that much difference but I'd think that all that soft rubber and maybe some suspension in a package that weighs close to the same would definitely be a fair bit faster. I've tried my heavy old mtbike on my own yard course and I hate it. But it has 26" wheels and is a harsh nasty beast anyway. It's OK for bigger gravity trails and power cornering because it's stiff and overbuilt. But I'd love to try a light new MTB in 27.5 or 29...
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Old 09-26-16, 01:44 PM
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a mtb hasn't placed in a single category so far this season from what I can tell
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Old 09-26-16, 03:15 PM
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This is in your local racing where they don't check width? Are MTBs in the mix? Are your conditions unfavorable for them? Not that I'd know what that was. We don't have a lot of fatties or mtbs in our races but some do very well.

I'd like to do some laps w a good mtbike to compare to my cx. Too bad my mtb is so old'n'lame.
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Old 09-26-16, 04:03 PM
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Honestly, in the C classes, fitness and some basic clue about bike handling, plus a basic competence in dismount / run / mount scenarios counts way more than anything you can do to a bike.

And of those, FITNESS trumps all the rest, hands down.

I got smoked again and again and it was all about fitness, every single time. Nothing else came even close to mattering.
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Old 09-26-16, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
This is in your local racing where they don't check width? Are MTBs in the mix? Are your conditions unfavorable for them? Not that I'd know what that was. We don't have a lot of fatties or mtbs in our races but some do very well.

I'd like to do some laps w a good mtbike to compare to my cx. Too bad my mtb is so old'n'lame.
Plenty of CX bikes with tires wider than 33mm, they don't check width at all. Both solid and suspension mtbs are in the mix, usually only up to Cat 3. But none of them ever win.
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Old 09-27-16, 07:27 PM
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It's a rarity that a MTB wins a CX race; I think your experience is skewed a bit in your area. They're slow as molasses on the road sections and straight grass runs compared to CX bikes.
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Old 09-28-16, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
For common races in the US the tire-width rule isn't enforced. Many use Mtbikes. Quite a few now use Fatbikes. Both types are doing very well. Finishing very high. Winning.

Nowadays mtbikes and even fatties can weigh about the same as a common CX bike.

Both mtb's and fatties will always have more contact patch and more cush in the tire. Isn't that the key to CX success on a common course?

Aren't those of us hewing to CX bikes just going slower and riding rougher for no good reason than masochism?

When is a CX bike a better choice? (Other than when there's an official w a measure-device.) ...When the course is fast and smooth enough that drop bars help and skinny tires don't hinder and there's enough running w the bike that saving a couple lbs is faster? ...How many courses are like that?
"Tiny local MI races that [MENTION=74206]JeffOYB[/MENTION] attends" =/= "common races in the US." Mountain bikes, and especially fat bikes, are absolutely slower than a cross bike on the large majority of courses. The only time you EVER see a fatbike rider on the podium around here is in a fatbike category.
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Old 09-28-16, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by grolby
"Tiny local MI races that [MENTION=74206]JeffOYB[/MENTION] attends" =/= "common races in the US." Mountain bikes, and especially fat bikes, are absolutely slower than a cross bike on the large majority of courses. The only time you EVER see a fatbike rider on the podium around here is in a fatbike category.
Have you compared the two modes personally? I haven't but would like to.

What makes a mtb slower for a somewhat comparable bike-weight? Same w fatbike. You can get these bikes around 20 lbs these days.

There should be some basic reason why they're slower. Or why a skinny bike wd be faster. (As I said, I see a skinny bike being faster if there's a minute of shouldering or a lotta pavement, wind and drafting.)

I suppose it's the engine that counts. We have a well-attended USAC-officiated full call-up-type race that Australian pro's were at last yr where a mtbiker has been fastest US guy last 2 yrs. But he's just fast.

I recall a fatty in top 10 of another USAC officiated race.
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Old 09-28-16, 06:59 AM
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The effort and aggravation of explaining this to you isn't worth it.
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Old 09-28-16, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB

What makes a mtb slower for a somewhat comparable bike-weight? Same w fatbike. You can get these bikes around 20 lbs these days.
- Geometry not optimized for the type of cornering, accelerations, etc. in CX
- Suspension that robs efficiency
- more upright riding position (though aero plays a much less significant role in CX as it does road)

Weight isn't everything. Fat bike might be faster in a super muddy or thick snow race...
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Old 09-28-16, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
Have you compared the two modes personally? I haven't but would like to.

What makes a mtb slower for a somewhat comparable bike-weight? Same w fatbike. You can get these bikes around 20 lbs these days.

There should be some basic reason why they're slower. Or why a skinny bike wd be faster. (As I said, I see a skinny bike being faster if there's a minute of shouldering or a lotta pavement, wind and drafting.)

I suppose it's the engine that counts. We have a well-attended USAC-officiated full call-up-type race that Australian pro's were at last yr where a mtbiker has been fastest US guy last 2 yrs. But he's just fast.

I recall a fatty in top 10 of another USAC officiated race.
Fast guys are fast. Period.
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