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Old 09-24-17, 07:47 PM
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Doge 
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New cross bike

My 19 year old CO military college kid wants to start racing cross.
I fund the bike. I need something competitive.

Where/what is a good bike you might see at nationals?

Are tubular's better?

Thinking this bike: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...xpertx1/129207
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Old 09-24-17, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
My 19 year old CO military college kid wants to start racing cross.
I fund the bike. I need something competitive.

Where/what is a good bike you might see at nationals?

Are tubular's better?

Thinking this bike: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...xpertx1/129207
The crux is a great bike. More than capable. I watched Logan Owen win his first UCI race on the crux. Only thing to watch out for is if the Through Axle standard is just that, standard. I remember reading about them requiring something odd in 2017.

Also take a look at the Trek line of bikes. The Santa cruz stigmata is good, and the Giant TCX is at a great value point.
JPow races for Focus, Kegan Swenson is on Cannondale (again, check the wheel / TA standard). Russ Stevenson (seattle local hot shot) is on Trek.
Outside of the US, Sven Nys used to race Colnago, then went to trek. Wout van Aert (current WC)al used to race on colnago and is now racing on felt.


Tubulars are great. Allow you to run significantly lower pressure without any reasonable risk.
I miss my setup I had on my cross bike I left in Seattle. I'm on disc brakes now, so my new set of wheels are running tubeless. Which seems to be fine, but I burped my first tire on Satuday, which sucked and I'm hoping it was just a fluke.

Other info:
1x is all but standard because you're not going to be riding anything too steep in a race and you're not going to be going all that fast.
Get a pair of mtb shoes he is comfortable running in.
If he wants to double up on races, go sram and buy zipties so he can race the SS category as well. Some places allow that, some places allow shimano and zipties. Some people are too serious about this side of the sport.
Tire choice is paramount. Picking the right tire and having them ready is amazing. Otherwise just get something generic for local conditions. At this point in the season I'm wishing I got something more mud oriented, hoping it dries out a little so I don't have to buy new tires already.
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Old 09-24-17, 08:26 PM
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@Ttoc6 I respect your view as you follow my posting a bit on the other side (RR). I think that crux is it. Great bike and as they are a former sponsor, can get a great deal. I think I'll start with that - just there will be a delay (it is complicated). But also other input is useful for eBay searching/starting out.
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Old 09-24-17, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
@Ttoc6 I respect your view as you follow my posting a bit on the other side (RR). I think that crux is it. Great bike and as they are a former sponsor, can get a great deal. I think I'll start with that - just there will be a delay (it is complicated). But also other input is useful for eBay searching/starting out.
There are many great bikes out there, but a CruX (S-Works or Pro) is great.

Unfortunately there's no settled thru-axle standard. Ttoc6 is right--Specialized made a change on the 2017 frames ONLY which made them only compatible with their hubs.

Pre-2017 and post-2017 things are normal.

PS I have a set of Zipp 303 tubulars (disc) with FMBs (with an amazing glue job) that I'm planning to sell. Nothing wrong with them -- nearly new condition. I just have too many wheels. Would basically be wholesale pricing. Haven't yet advertised them anywhere but am planning to do so in the next week or so.

I would not recommend training on them, but not racing on tubulars for a kid of your son's talent is a notable disadvantage.
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Old 09-25-17, 01:33 PM
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I have that bike, more or less. It's great.

1x is the way to go. Also definitely educate yourself about through-axle standards or lack thereof.

BTW one rarely mentioned comparative difference between the crux and other cross bikes is the crux has more tire clearance than most other race ready cross bikes.
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Old 09-26-17, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post

Pre-2017 and post-2017 things are normal.
Sortof: Just stay away from anything Specialized CruX that uses SCS rear spacing. They mixed QR SCS and thru-axle SCS on various MY15, 16, 17 bikes. Simplest would be to pick up a 2018 since Spec has pretty much settled on 12mm TA standard for all MY18 CX bikes.
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Old 09-26-17, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Costco hot dogs View Post
Sortof: Just stay away from anything Specialized CruX that uses SCS rear spacing. They mixed QR SCS and thru-axle SCS on various MY15, 16, 17 bikes. Simplest would be to pick up a 2018 since Spec has pretty much settled on 12mm TA standard for all MY18 CX bikes.
So avoid this bike?

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Old 09-26-17, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
So avoid this bike?


That would be my recommendation. That being said, there are work-arounds; Specialized makes a derailleur hanger for both the QR SCS and TA SCS bikes that allow you to run a normal 135QR or 142x12TA rear wheel, respectively, in the SCS framesets.
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Old 09-26-17, 06:02 PM
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So had the big planning call. Based on the amount of parts we can re-purpose, some relationships, going to build from frame up.
Likely getting a used Scott with rim brakes to start and be a pit bike later - $750. This will be something to use, see how bad it all is while we wait for the other stuff to be available.

Then ordering the cool stuff. Dad (me) is funding one bike, but we got post, seat, pedals, bars, stem, cranks, rings and bro deals on other stuff.
Bike will be Shimano parts - brakes, shifters and 1X likely wolf tooth on DA cranks. Might bend here.

Questions:
Crank length compared to road? I think matching hill is good. So crit is 172.5, hill is 175. Thinking 175.
What is the gear range needed?
Road frame is 56cm. Is cross the same size frame?
Is Cross shorter stem?
What proper width tubulars?

Frame choices (some politics here, but price is about the same net to us and retail is close too):
2018 Specialized S-Works CruX
or
2017 3t Exploro

Last edited by Doge; 09-26-17 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 09-26-17, 06:47 PM
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@gsteinb - would you please move this thread to the cross forum.
I was miss-thinking.
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Old 09-26-17, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
So had the big planning call. Based on the amount of parts we can re-purpose, some relationships, going to build from frame up.
Likely getting a used Scott with rim brakes to start and be a pit bike later - $750. This will be something to use, see how bad it all is while we wait for the other stuff to be available.

Then ordering the cool stuff. Dad (me) is funding one bike, but we got post, seat, pedals, bars, stem, cranks, rings and bro deals on other stuff.
Bike will be Shimano parts - brakes, shifters and 1X likely wolf tooth on DA cranks. Might bend here.

Questions:
Crank length compared to road? I think matching hill is good. So crit is 172.5, hill is 175. Thinking 175.
What is the gear range needed?
Road frame is 56cm. Is cross the same size frame?
Is Cross shorter stem?
What proper width tubulars?

Frame choices (some politics here, but price is about the same net to us and retail is close too):
2018 Specialized S-Works CruX
or
2017 3t Exploro
Crank length I run the same as road.
Gearing, I've run a double 46/36 on the front, a 42(single) and a 40(single). So far I like the 40 the best. In the back I've always got a 11x28 from 9 spd through 11. I have a n11x32 casette laying around but don;'t have a rear der that can clear it.
Cross frames usually have a higher BB drop and taller head tube. I typically try to size down.
Yes, stem usually shorter. Not always though. I'm 110 across the board. Depends on how twitchy you like the front end. Just like xcmtb racing.
For anything sanctioned by the UCI you HAVE to run something that measures less than 33c. Most people try to adhere to that even outside of the sanctioning body mainly because that's the range where there are high quality cross tires made.

Both bikes will work. The exploro is a sweet bike I would totally own if I could afford it. Opens up the door for gravel racing later on and you can fit 27.5" mtb wheels in there for a super rad ride.
If you want a race bike though, the crux is a much better option imo. It's race proven around the world.

Also, I figured you posted this in the wrong forums based on your posts above
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Old 09-26-17, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6 View Post
...
Also, I figured you posted this in the wrong forums based on your posts above
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
@Ttoc6 I respect your view as you follow my posting a bit on the other side (RR).
Yea, my fingers are programmed I guess. Hopefully a mod will move it. I was looking for this thread in the cross forum.

The kid is in fun mode now and trying things he didn't growing up. As we don't have to pay school tuition leaves some room for some toys. On paper cx fits him better than MTB where I was not a fan, but someone gave him a MTB, so I lost on that one.
Junior is in a frenzy now - worse than anything anyone ever thought I pressured him into. I'm excited about cx. New stuff and gear for me. Certainly not the prestige of RR, but looks like a ton of fun. If he want's prestige I tell him to fly an F35. That will be a tough choice.

Still much cheaper than a boat.

You all have been very helpful. Thank you. I welcome more/all input.
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Old 09-27-17, 09:44 AM
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Will you be my dad? I'll take the boat or the bike. Your choice.

That said, if your son is in fun mode then CX is the way to go. Just as fun as everyone says it is.

The Exploro is definitely dope, but I'd go Crux if he's focusing on racing. Building up the pit bike first is a great idea though. See what he likes before spending the big money on something fancy.
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Old 09-27-17, 11:02 AM
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For $750 you can get a used disc bike so you can keep wheels/parts compatible between the two
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Old 09-29-17, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
For $750 you can get a used disc bike so you can keep wheels/parts compatible between the two
Looking. 56cm.
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Old 10-02-17, 08:47 AM
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I think we bought this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/onli...essenger_share
With 4 wheel sets.
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Old 10-02-17, 08:52 AM
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Going to cut 1-2 lbs off that by using power cordz, going to 1X and bye-FD (I hope the brake is OK with that), going to kid's hard saddle and post and later, if he survives cross season, some wheels. Although this comes with 4 sets.
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Old 10-02-17, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I think we bought this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/onli...essenger_share
With 4 wheel sets.
nice. pick up any of the x1 RDs with the clutch and N/W chainring and you should be set. I think some people have removed the internals on the left shifter to save weight
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Old 10-02-17, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
nice. pick up any of the x1 RDs with the clutch and N/W chainring and you should be set. I think some people have removed the internals on the left shifter to save weight
This is the "pit bike" or the one to ensure he doesn't suck at cx. I still plan a project bike, but going to chill a bit on that.

I don't know how important that clutched RD is. I have N/W rings already. So far they have been used on pavement.

I'm certainly going to be buying a clutched for any new build. We will try to keep this - mostly as is. Tossing cables does not bother me as much as swapping a RD.

The project build will be one of the CruX, 3T or Ritchey frames. A 1X and Di2. I have really good post, seat, bar/stem already. Then the wheels we will have these alloy ones with sprint and mud tires. I expect to do something the following year to improve wheels once I see that he doesn't crush the alloy ones. I'm determined to get that thing under 15lbs...

What was potentially a $5K project became a $1,200 one so, I'm pretty happy about all that.
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Old 10-02-17, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
This is the "pit bike" or the one to ensure he doesn't suck at cx. I still plan a project bike, but going to chill a bit on that.

I don't know how important that clutched RD is. I have N/W rings already. So far they have been used on pavement.

I'm certainly going to be buying a clutched for any new build. We will try to keep this - mostly as is. Tossing cables does not bother me as much as swapping a RD.

The project build will be one of the CruX, 3T or Ritchey frames. A 1X and Di2. I have really good post, seat, bar/stem already. Then the wheels we will have these alloy ones with sprint and mud tires. I expect to do something the following year to improve wheels once I see that he doesn't crush the alloy ones. I'm determined to get that thing under 15lbs...

What was potentially a $5K project became a $1,200 one so, I'm pretty happy about all that.
An Apex 1 RD costs $50, worth it for the clutch. I ran a non clutch shimano 1x setup all summer into the beginning of cross season for gravel/practice and dropped 2 chains while using a chain keeper. You can see and hear the chain bouncing around quite a bit, and will usually drop off the bottom of the chainring when you crash or hit a barrier. Got a force cx1 RD on the new cross bike and it makes a world of difference in chain retention. Still use a chain keeper but no drops yet. Its cheap insurance for a clutched rear derailleur and the narrow wide pulleys also help with retention and shifting with lots of mud buildup
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Old 10-02-17, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
An Apex 1 RD costs $50, worth it for the clutch. I ran a non clutch shimano 1x setup all summer into the beginning of cross season for gravel/practice and dropped 2 chains while using a chain keeper. You can see and hear the chain bouncing around quite a bit, and will usually drop off the bottom of the chainring when you crash or hit a barrier. Got a force cx1 RD on the new cross bike and it makes a world of difference in chain retention. Still use a chain keeper but no drops yet. Its cheap insurance for a clutched rear derailleur and the narrow wide pulleys also help with retention and shifting with lots of mud buildup
What is the Shimano one to buy - shadow something?
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Old 10-02-17, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
What is the Shimano one to buy - shadow something?
for 11 speed there isn't a good one. If you have DI2 you can use the XT, but for mechanical you need to use the wolftooth tanpan adapter to use with a MTB RD. I think there is some who have been able to move the cage over to a road RD too
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Old 10-02-17, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
for 11 speed there isn't a good one. If you have DI2 you can use the XT, but for mechanical you need to use the wolftooth tanpan adapter to use with a MTB RD. I think there is some who have been able to move the cage over to a road RD too
Di2 was the next bike plan.

I don't want to stupidly through money around, but I'm not paying tuition (as I did on kid #1), wants my old car, vs a new one, flys coach instead of 1st class and and we just bought this bike at way under plan with 4 wheels sets - so I'm not feeling too abused.

We also are aligned with sponsor brands - Shimano - and have a relation$hip there.
Will this work?
RD-M9000-SGS

If not I'll look at the Apex, but don't really want to be buying new off brand stuff. Pit bike used, is different, and I think I can get away with that.

Last edited by Doge; 10-02-17 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 10-03-17, 01:09 PM
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"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men"


I hope to pick up next week.

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Old 10-03-17, 02:20 PM
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solid choice, so are you going to strip the sram off for shimano? As much as I am a shimano fanboy for road, I think SRAM is leading the way for 1x CX even though I hate the clunky shifting.
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