DaveQ24

I don't need one, I just want one.

I've been checking out the 2017 S Works Turbo:

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...6fattie/118335

I love Specialized, I have 5 of them, but honestly, this seems VERY overpriced compared to other, less well-known manufacturers.

It seems to me about half of the MSRP is for the actually bike, and the other half is to pay for the Specialized name.

Since I'm not the brightest when it comes to the technical and mechanical end of bicycles, anyone care to offer some good alternatives that are comparable in features and performance and perhaps not as $$$.

TIA

Robert C

I am going to comment that, compared to other prebuilt, first rank, e-bikes the specialized is not really over priced. However, when compared to off-brand and home-builds that it seems over priced.

I would recommend that you look at Luna Cycles pre built bikes. They are not as finished as the Specialized; but they are not in the same price bracket either (before people get upset and think I am bashing Luna Cycles, I am not, I am a very satisfied customer of theirs. I intend what I am saying to be taken in a complementary manner).

NoPhart

I agree. $10,000+ Out-The-Door! Are they serious?

What was your last E-bike and why do you want another or different one?

IMHO what you need to do is determine: why you want another or different E-bike, what you want to do with it, what you expect from it, and if any of that is realistic.

Almost any other E-bike is less than $10,000OTD. Are there any other E-bikes you like?

You won’t find me defending any $10,000 OTD E-bike regardless of the componentry or name. Value is a very subjective thing, especially at that price level.

As an example, I justified my recent carbon non-electric MTB bike price (in my own mind) by adding the discounted price I knew I could buy the frame, fork and seat dropper for and it was on sale at my LBS’s anniversary sale for about that price point. I wanted it and couldn’t even come close to building it for that price, so I pulled the trigger. Glad I did, because that was a short lived sale and to “me” a great price to value for the ride I wanted.

Realize a mistake purchase in the overpriced E-bike world can mean an immediate 50%-75% loss, if you can even resell it at all. Rent what you select for a weekend or at least a full day (full battery drain, timed recharge and second battery drain) if you can. At the high end you have to make absolutely sure your purchase is right and range realistic for your style of riding. At the low end, there's not so much $$$ at risk.

Bikes with conversion kits “should” always be worth at least the price of the conversion kit; one would think. And you can sell the bike and kit separate or move the kit to a new bike if desired. Can any of your current bikes accept an conversion kit that you would be happy with? Just some personal thoughts to consider when playing in the E-bike world.

Good luck in your search!

Ray_R

Half the high price is for the top shelf components of the S Works bike.
For less than half the price of the S Works, you can buy the standard version. Looks to me like they all share the same motor.

DaveQ24

Interesting and thanks for the tip. They are definitely cheaper than a Sp. Turbo, but look pretty nice for the price.

chas58

Huh? you can spend $10,000 for a high end specialized without a motor. OR you can get a $600 specialized. Kinda silly to look at a high end bike and say its too much money. A porsche is "too much money" for me, but I still like looking at them. ;-)

You can get a specialized ebike for a reasonable price. Why not look at the $2,500 bike, and say that is a good price from a large name company?

OR, ask yourself, why not just get a $900 Sondors fat bike? It hits an amazing value price point.

DaveQ24

Thanks. My current and only E-bike is a 2013 Prodeco Outlaw. It's a really nice bike, but it's full-throttle, not pedal assist, and at top speed of 28 mph, it's registered as a moped in my state and there are places I can't go with it. I bought it in March 2013 with the intent of commuting part time on it, which never happened. At that time, my theory was getting a full-throttle bike because I have an office job and do NOT have facilities in the building to shower, so I can't ride any of my regular bikes for commuters. Theory was if I'm not pedaling, I'm not getting sweaty enough to be a problem. Other theory was gas savings, and just the pleasure of it. None of that ever happened, mostly because life is just too complicated, I often have to go out of the office to clients, so I need my car many days, and I do a lot of errands, shopping etc. on the commute so that would be an issue at times.

Right now, I'm thinking a pedal-assist with a top speed of 20 mph, so I can go on the non-motorized trails (OK in my state) and MUPS. Assist would be great at some times - not that I'm going to give up my other bikes and modes of riding.

Realistically - I definite would see myself riding a different E-bike more than the Prodeco. One thing about the Outlaw I hate is that the fricking battery replaces my rear-rack cargo space. I never tried panniers, which I guess would work, but I didn't get that far with this project.

Realistically - I don't NEED it - I hate to say it, my wants when it comes to bikes dramatically outpace my needs. I'm fortunate enough to make a good living, my house and cars are totally paid for, I don't have any debt, and I'm single, no kids, so I have no need to leave any kind of "legacy" to anyone upon my death. So, I buy what I like. Cycling and fitness in general are my main passion - my "fun money" goes to bikes, the gym, and fitness equipment. It keeps me healthy all the way around, except for a bum knee that needs a TNR at 51, but I'm putting that off as long as possible - and that does NOT affect my cycling. It's affected my running somewhat, at this point I just work through it, not too painful, just weak at times. Don't travel, don't eat out very often, have every material thing I need in life, the house is in great shape, older but all of the major systems have been replaced in the last 5-6 years. I'm lucky and I know it and do count my blessings.

Yeah, I have quite a stable of "great" bikes - which weren't cheap. I've got 4 bikes in that general price range now, 2 road, 1 full-suspension mountain, and a Tri bike - disclaimer, I got several of them deeply discounted since they were older models. So yes, I would, if it were the right bike, spend that much. But I posed the question because hey, if I don't have to, all the better. OTOH, as a rule, I'm pretty attracted to the bigger names - for better or worse - 4 Specialized, 2 Kestrel, 2 Cannondale, had a Fuji but did give that one away to my best friend who is like a brother to me.

Bikes are essentially great collectibles for me with a horrible return on the investment if I ever wanted to sell them - but the Fuji was the ONLY bike I got rid of -gave away, because I really wanted to get my friend into road cycling and money was kinda tight for him at that time.

So yeah, thanks so much for the comments and thoughts, and hope this wasn't way TMI.

DaveQ24

I know - I'm a sucker for bike bling, what can I say. N + 1 is a definite sickness, and I like the "good stuff" in life. Not that expensive is always better. And I'm the kind of guy that thinks it's utterly nuts for a woman to spend $2500 plus on a Louis Vitton handbag - a former GF did that a few years back, her personal version of my bike bling - when a $50 something from Macy's does the same job -so I'm a hypocrite as well.

Thanks to all for the responses.

chas58

Took my Kid to the bike store the other day.

He was shocked that there was a $6,000 trek, when he was thinking $400 is an expensive bike.

We made a game of finding the most expensive bike there. We found one on "close out" for $11,900.

Still, I'm happy with a $250 used race bike, and probably would be satisfied with a cheap Specialized turbo or even a Sondors (although I'm not really a fat bike fan).


P.S. Let me know if you ever want me to give you a horrible return on your investments. Sounds like a nice stable!

DaveQ24

I know, my S Works Roubaix was slightly north of that.

LOL, they had a $16,000 custom built Specialized something road bike at the LBS I bought my Specialized's from. It was beautiful, strictly Pro level. I'm no pro, just an (overly)enthusiastic rider.

Will do about the garage sale of my stable of bikes, but don't hold your breath. I still have my 1983 Huffy and my 1991 Cannondale.

2old

Rode a BionX conversion today and confirmed what I've thought for some time now; it's kick ass. Consider adding a kit to one of your existing bikes.

350htrr

About the "only" thing I don't like about the new BionX 500D is the size of the hub motor, It just SCREAMS I am riding an E-Bike...

NoPhart

Not TMI for me. That gives a good perspective on where you are coming from. I happened to be in a new to me bike shop today that had 2 Speciallized eMTB's. Neither were the top-of-the-line S-Works model and IIRC they were discount priced at $4,500 and $3,500. Looked beautiful! Both were full suspension modren eMTB's.

The best advise I can give is to rent a few different models for a day/weekend to try them out. The "feel" of different E-bikes are very unique. Personally I'd guide you to the $3,000-$4,500 price range quality FS mid-drive eMTB's in 29" or 27.5+ if you can benefit from that in your areas terrain (Not my thing, too much bounce and tire roll, plus difficult to get tire pressures right IMHO). That price point has good quality capable eMTB' s and if you find one with a "feel" you like, then you can always look further up the bike chart to see if you want to spend the extra money for lighter and nicer components.

My personal finding after riding a BaFang 350W/37V equiped low end hardtail MTB for 6 months was that the extra power of the assist only requires about 3 gears to enjoy them. The constant shifting was a PITA with all that extra power. I'm currently in the process of building a Gates Belt Drive Soma B-Side eMTB hardtail for enjoyment with a Sturmey-Archer 3spd IGH. The bike will be a $2,000+ build and the electric assist and battery will be another $1,000, so over $3,000 for my custom unique hardtail is at the low end of the quality prebuilt E-bikes out there. 2nd gear will be my 1st and 3rd my high 2nd gear (15-20mph-ish). 1st will be reserved as a ganny low for climbing. It will also serve as a bike trail and beach boardwalk cruiser toy.

Best to get out there and ride a few. You will quickly figure out what you like and don't like. Any money spent testing is well spent IMO. They are all a lot of fun to ride, but not a substitute for a car at all as you found out.

My build: https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-b...ion-bluid.html

2old

350, if Dave isn't in CA, UT or NC might as well get a 350 which is less obvious, less expensive and easily goes the required 20 mph.

NoPhart

Dave - If real MTB feel is what you are after, then read about the Focus Project-Y:

Focus reveal rideable 'Project Y' lightweight e-bike concept | electric bike reviews, buying advice and news

This general concept in a FS MTB would be nice; an eMTB & MTB in one bike. The motor/battery completely removes and a place holder can be installed for a super light weight standard MTB. The current Focus Jarifa I 29 SL is nice too, but it's also a hardtail with non-slack headtube.

https://www.focus-bikes.com/gb/en/bik...a-i-29-sl.html

DaveQ24

Nope, not a Mt Bike Mecca - suburbs of a Midwestern rust belt city - our idea of big hills locally is a band of terminal moraines that rise about 200 feet over average elevation on either side.

The Focus project looks interesting - thanks.

I was doing a local inventory search and found a 2015 Haibike Xduro Fullseven RX for about $5k / gonna check it out.

chas58

That is cool. I kinda like it.

I like the light 12.96kg weight! My light weight hardtail mountain bike weighs 12.18kg, so I guess they have me beat by 0.22kg. LOL!

Nice to see other serious attempts and a light and fasts user powered e-bike, rather than the heavy over the top stuff (see Yardbike post).

PatrickGSR94

Not as much as that dumb Copenhagen wheel with the massive red plastic motor housing.

2old

C-58, the Yardbike, while obviously not for everyone, was constructed beautifully and may occupy a niche. I'd love to have one to tool around in the desert. Probably gear it higher for more range and carry an extra battery.

DaveQ24

So, I went to look at the Haibike. Here some links about it I found while doing a Google search.

https://electricbikereview.com/haibi...-fullseven-rx/

Haibike XDURO FULL SEVEN

Any opinions or pointers about this bike would be greatly appreciated. It's at an outlet store of local (6-7 store) chain. They still have it at $5200, but the manager said he could go down to $4800. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do a test ride today, the bracket holding the control unit was damaged in shipping, so the control unit was dangling precariously - they already have a replacement on order, he is going to call me when I can do a test ride.

In person, it looked really nice, it's 15 lbs lighter than my Prodeco, and I like the 27.5" size, which is the same as two of my non-E mt bikes.

What do you think? Price is almost half of what I was considering for the S-Works Sp. and it seems to have good components. I especially like the fact that it has Bosch motor, rather than something Chinese and no-name.

NoPhart

Okay, you've zeroed in on the Haibikes, good choice. Make sure you try the Yamaha and the Bosch mid-drive systems. The Yamaha's are much more reasonably priced and have dual front chain rings (at least in 2016, haven't looked at 2017). The Bosch mid-drive comes in a CX model. If you go Bosch, go CX! The CX I rode felt much nicer than the non-CX at Interbike 2015.

The link you posted is a New Old Stock (NOS) 2015 model non-CX. That's why it's listed at $3,800ish and can probably be had cheaper because it's two years old.

IIRC the Haibike Xduro FullSeven RX also comes in a FullSeven "S" RX that provides assist up to 28mph. Is that something you want?

Personal I'd only be looking at the 2017 models, but NOS is always cheaper...

Let us know what your take on the difference in the Yamaha and Bosch "feel" is, if any. Thx.

DaveQ24

So, I had the opportunity to check out the 201 Turbo low-end (for the Turbo series), Levo Comp fat bike. Hardtail. Had to drive 60 miles to see it. Nice bike, but I'm now pretty sold on the Haibike. Nicer bike, IMHO, for the money. But I still haven't been able to test ride the Haibike, called the shop this morning, got the "still waiting for the part" line. He promised he would check with his manager and see when it's coming in.

allan6344

Test riding is important. I was looking at a Haibike and a Felt but decided to test ride a Turbo for comparison even though it was not in any way on my list. I ended up with the Turbo because I liked the way it rode. If you don't love the way it rides it won't be much of a bargain if it's cheaper or a luxury if it's more.

speedy25

Adding to the thread now instead of just noticing it....

Glad you got an interest in Haibike. I picked that brand as one that I will be carrying when I open my e-bike store. Riding their product was GREAT. They ride well without the glitches I found in other brands. While the Bosch drive is good, I thought the Yamaha drive was better. Get it.

Now back to Specialized. One of the local dealers brought a bunch of different brand bikes to try out at last weekends ebike expo. One of the ones I noticed was a red Specialized. It stood out even more with its large slick tires. I took it out for a spin and was AMAZED. That thing flew! and we only had a small parking lot course to ride in. After the expo I went to the shop and made the deal to buy it. Digging around the Specialized website I found it is the Specialized Turbo S from 2014. I just got back from blasting around town. Its still an amazing machine. I think it just might become my #1 ride around town.

There are still a few duds out there but for the most part the manufacturers are making some amazing machines. At least I will do my part to make them better known and more available. Yeah some are crazy expensive, but not all of them so there should be something for everyone.

-SP

Hey, and for those that didnt notice, there is a thin model in the Sondors line-up if you didnt want a fat tire bike. Similar pricing too.

chas58

I should try a specialized! Actually, that inspired me to build my own specialized turbo. Same basic specs, but half the weight. That is how I get to work.

It would be interesting to try the "thin" sondors, especially upgaded to 48V. He seems good and what he is doing. I almost bought his first bike, but was put off by the lies in the original advertisement (many of which were redacted later). But, it has been impressive what he has done.

His next model is actually the Sondors Car! Not sure how well that will work...