Hidden Motors on Pro Cyclists Bikes - 60 Minutes Episode
 

An engineer's testimony in tonight's '60 Minutes' segment suggests long-running fraud.

Full article at Are Tour de France Racers Cheating With Secret Motors? | Bicycling.

Seeing/reading about one of those got me into looking at E-Assist like the BionX... :p

This whole thing strikes me as far-fetched conspiracy theory.... much of that going around right now. That such a thing could happen and be widespread just doesn't pass the "reasonableness" test. And 60 Minutes has a checkered history of presenting stories in a way that makes something highly implausible seem plausible. Their treatment of the Audi 5000 during the "sudden acceleration" episode was deplorable. And let's not forget Dateline's rigging of GM pickup trucks with incendiaries to get footage of trucks exploding on fire during their "investigation" of GM's fuel tank placement problem.

Some are saying that on a long stage race with climbing, even if you did have motors, you can't get the math to work out that it is an advantage. You can get a short burst of extra power for 1% of the race, but only at the expense of hauling around a couple lbs of extra weight the remaining 99%. I suppose you could build a bike that is a couple lbs under miniumum weight and then get the motor and battery for free, but at some point the trouble and expense starting getting completely out of hand. In any event, you're back to the conspiracy problem - for this to be widespread you'd have to have literally tens, perhaps hundreds, of people working on it and keeping their mouth shut for decades.

- Mark

Me too! 2 months ago I thought all e-bikes had concealed motors in the seat tube. Kinda like Charles Siple's tongue in cheek "Checkered Flag Special" powered by compressed air pictured in the April Fools 1965 issue of Bicycling Magazine...

Vintage Bicycling Illustration Shows Mechanical Doping in Pro Cycling as April Fool | Bicycling

Little did I know that there was an entire industry out there!

Agree with you about the shows pumping things up. Not so much on the rest. It doesn't take much to build a small system in to a down or seat tube and can easily be done by one person. The technology is readily available and weight is not an issue, especially with the minimum weight rules that have some teams having to add weight to bikes to meet the minimum.

And then there was this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-problems.html

I would bet there are systems out there that a rider/riders gets to change the battery as many time as they want, in a water bottle given to them by people they know on the road... JMO as I imagine that it can be done to gain as much as possible. :rolleyes:

Didn't they have guys on motorcycles at the last Tour de France looking through heat sensing cameras at the pro peloton? I don't see this as a real problem at the top pro level at least. It's much harder to conceal than doping.

I watched the segment on 60 minutes, and do believe it is a real issue. The price of a motor was astronomical! About the size of a "D" cell battery.Fit inside the frame, attached to pedal assembly. When engaged, the pedals kept going, without your feet on them. Apparently, it's been around for years, just now being exposed. Showed one guy fall, his bikes rear wheel kept turning, while bike was on it's side. Pretty obvious it was being propelled by a motor of some sort.:foo:

Online video: 60 Minutes investigates hidden motors and pro cycling - CBS News

Agreed 100% The first sentence out of the correspondent's mouth was, "cycling, a sports notorious for cheating." He then proceeded to "prove" his premise to be "true." He only interviewed people, including Lemond, who agreed with him.

If this was a court of law, his case for mechanical doping would be thrown out for lack of evidence.

BTW, let's not forget Dan Rather's hit piece on President Bush. :mad:

It proves what I've been saying for years: you just can't trust a bicyclist.

The extent of the issue is certainly fodder for debate.

But the fact that it's possible and has been done is a proven fact and not debatable. It's not that long ago that a rider was disqualified for using one of these hidden motors.

The only controversy in this one case was whether the motor was in the bike she rode in competition, or another one that "just happened" to be on her team car.

So, let's not fault 60 minutes too much here, since they're about a year behind the mark anyway.

Ah thanks for posting that link. I heard about the episode yesterday morning on FB but then forgot to watch it yesterday evening.

I was dozing while watching it (couch was too comfortable), but think the guy who claimed to get $2,000.000 for a 10 year exclusive on the system showed that he had it in the bank.

SO those of you that have e-bikes, Hoe long do you think any assist would last with a system having such a small capacity? Yeah, its still cheating but not one to give you an incredible advantage.

-SP

I for one, would be very happy to have motor assist for only hard hill climbs on what is otherwise a light road bike. Hopefully the technology will improve and the cost go down as I age and become more interested in some help now and then.

I kinda laughed when I watched that show. I built my bikes about a year before the regulatory committees became aware of it. Then of course, they have to throw the vague unsubstantiated "Lance Armstrong might have done this" into the mix. Geeze, what is behind that statement?

And yes, it is easy to do (if you have the money).
Back in 2014 (or earlier), the biggest problem is battery capacity. But that has come a long way in just a few years (my battery from last year weighs 1/3 of my battery from 2013).

That comment about weight is a farce. It is easy to build a bike below the UCI minimum. Build one 1-2 kg lighter than the minimum, and then add 1-2kg of motor & batteries. That is easier to do now than 3 years ago.

All depends on the batteries. for 1kg in batteries, I can get 350 watts for 30 minutes. But, in a race 100- 200 watts for 20-30 minutes could be the difference between winning or losing. The trick 5 years ago: is carrying around that extra weight worth the short term benefit in a long distance race?

That is less of a problem if you can:
- lighten the bike to make up for the battery weight
- run a shorter race where just being the first up a hill can make the difference in winning
- use some of the more advanced battery technology available lately.

We are talking the difference from being mid pack to being in the lead during key sprints, it does not take that much of an edge.

When racing, I have no problem staying in the lead pack. If I had an extra 100-200watts available for 5-10 minutes, sure I could take first place.

That wouldn't be a problem if you can have someone hand you a replacement water bottle periodically with a fully charged battery inside in exchange for a little less water. Tiny contacts on the bottle could connect to the cage bolts to deliver the power to the motor inside the frame.

All yous need be is a few inches ahead of the next guy at the finish line... ;) Even if it only lasts for one hill, you can be much farther along then just by your own energy... As for the weight penalty, I would suggest there would be none, if done on a really really light bike that would be under weight normally.

Its still cheating

I was surprised to see that piece on 60 minutes, but have suspected it for years. They had a couple film clips that did look shocking (guy passing everyone at very high speed and fallen rider with rear wheel spinning under power on the ground).

Did anyone catch the watts and amps of that little seat tube electric motor?

The general concept is just what I've personally been looking to add to my Full Suspension MTB. All I want is a button to press that gives assistance when climbing hills only. The rest of the time I don't want assistance or drag or heavy extra weight. Right now the design I'm considering uses a 6lb. 450W/36A geared motor positioned in the triangle with additional 12T freewheel motor sprocket x 42T fixed crank sprocket reduction to the crank (pedals always turn under power). Of course, I'm not a racer or in competition with anyone, just want my young man lungs back on those climbs...

I think they said 20 minutes. A pro cyclist will probably average 400 watts (and peak and 1200 - 1500 watts sprinting).

For a hill climb, a sustained 100-200 watts over 10-20 minutes will give a distinct advantage. 1s7p should get you that for 20 minutes at 24 volts. Just need to find room for 7 batteries in your frame. I know several people who have put more than that into a steel bike frame.

And here is a kit with 30v 200watts that you or anyone can buy...
https://www.electricbike.com/gruber-assist/

Nice article on the subject by the electric bike (luna) people:

https://www.electricbike.com/doped-b...n-their-heads/