chas58

I am inspired by electric vehicles of all types, and this video of an autonomous Chevy volt running through San Fran looked pretty impressive. In the very first shot, an ebike appears to cut in front of and then zip down the street in front of the autonomous Bolt. The Bolt stops, lets the ebike zoom on by and then continues on. It must be fun trying to program the logic for all of the things that can potentially surprise an autonomous drive....

2old

What a "trip" watching that thing; agree, the programming logistics are incredible (to me).

NoPhart

Wow! At 2:10 that E-bike zips by and the self driving car doesn't even slow down or hesitate...

allan6344

I like how at 2:30 two vehicles behind it cut it off trying to go around the parked truck. It's probably the only car on the road that "follows the rules". Full stops, signals etc.

Fett2oo5

I'm concerned that people will take advantage of their capabilities at the expense of others.
Specifically in areas where parking is limited; a person could have their car drop them off at lunch or while shopping or anywhere else, then they would tell their car to drive around until they call it back using their phone app. There would be hundreds of cars driving around with no one in them, all because the inconsiderate don't want to have to find a parking space and/or want to be dropped off or picked up at the door.

I would hope we could get to a point where autonomous vehicles were more like a transit system. When you need a ride, you call for one using an app, (much like the uber idea) All governed by a central system. There could be fluctuating stipulations that so many vehicles need to wait in an area depending on that area's population density and usage. So a charging station (yes electric vehicles) could be outside (or centralized) near subdivisions, and high density job locations.

It would combine, Electric vehicles, ride/vehicle sharing, ride calling/hailing, and mass transit.

350htrr

That IS where we are heading to... IMO Maybe even to a time where real people will be forbidden to drive.

KD5NRH

Hard to tell with the goofy speed, but it looks to me like it failed to yield to the bike that was making a right where the car made a left, then stopped after it had already cut off the bike. I wonder if maybe the "observer" decided to hit the brake on that one.

FBinNY 

IMO- this will be a key sticking point with autonomous vehicles in most large cities.

Obviously the programming has to be conservative, with collision avoidance given top priority. That means that they'll have to defer to any aggressive, or even crazy driver, and will be at a disadvantage wherever these abound.

If there ever is a point where they're reliable enough, and there's a push to get them into the mix, I worry that there's likewise be a push to get "problem" drivers off the road. Bike advocates may think it's a good thing, but I can see it coming back to haunt bicyclists if we're seen as causing problems for self-drivers.

slomoshun

I’m wondering how well traffic would flow with autonomous cars. It seems to me that a roadway heavily populated with overly cautious [paranoid] vehicles would just be a stop-and-go snail race.

Robert C

Considering that the alternative is, literally, tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths every year, maybe it should

chas58

It's actually kind of cool. They can talk to each other, tail gate reach other. Warn each other when there is a hazard up ahead, there are plenty of cool possibilities when autonomous
cars can talk to each other.

slomoshun

Part of me wants to accept the possibility that autonomous car technology may be an attempt at saving humanity from themselves. On the other hand, 35K US auto deaths per year out of 324 million* people isn’t much of a blip on the big radar. So, I suspect the technology is more about enormous cash flow to be earned in new-widget sales and infrastructure changes, and insurance companies saving a boatload in payouts for auto and injury claims.

If a person tossed out a crumpled lunch sack would it trip the robocar sensors and stop 1/2 mile of cars? That could be a leg up when dicing through the hoards at rush hour.



* Population Clock

prathmann

It's about the same toll as having a 9/11 type of event every month. Seems like it should warrant a pretty big response if we can develop the technology to greatly reduce it.

kickstart

The freight and parcel company I drive for is in the process installing event triggered cameras in all their vehicles, and autonomous vehicles will certainly have something similar.
I suspect there will be accountability for those who use inappropriate actions to take advantage of object avoidance systems.

PatrickGSR94

I did not see the cyclist cutting off the car. The car turned the corner, appeared to "see" the presence and direction of the cyclist, then stopped briefly to let the cyclist pass.

The car did hesitate to let the cyclist go by. It's hard to see in the sped-up version, but if you look frame by frame you can see that the car most like could "see" the cyclist coming and tell that he wasn't slowing down, and so the car let him go by.

I'm not sure why all the bikes in the video are being called e-bikes. The first one appeared to have a rack battery, but the one at 2:10 looked like a normal bicycle.

PatrickGSR94

The movies "i, Robot" and "Minority Report" from the early 2000's, which both depict life in the mid-21st century, have similar illustrations of where self-driving/autonomous technology is likely heading.

NoPhart

You may be right and I don't think that one was an ebike...

Personally I don't think the whole self driving thing is a great idea, but it is hard to stop anything that for whatever reason has huge funding behind it. I always think of a video that I saw of a self driving executive demonstrating how great the technology works by standing in front of the car as it approached and it hits him.

Then there's the Tesla diesel truck complete miss and decapitation death.

It's my experience that most wrecks are caused by SLOW and overly cautious drivers. These self driving cars seems to be similar to them. I have to wonder how many will stop short or do some other crazy action, causing human driven cars to hit them. Of course that would still be the human drivers fault, but just saying...

There probably is no stopping progress to eventual anti-gravity self-driving vehicles in the end.

PatrickGSR94

Once again, the Tesla incident was NOT an autonomous system. That was driver error on the part of both the truck driver (for pulling that stupid maneuver), AND the Tesla driver for not paying attention to what was going on. Tesla's system is merely an "autopilot" type of system that keeps you in a lane at a set speed, and is supposed to adjust for things that get in the way. In that case the system couldn't "see" the bright side of the truck against the sky background. It can't drive on curvy roads, it can't turn corners, and I'm not even sure if it can change lanes. I think if you the Tesla driver touches the turn signal stalk, the system will then make a lane change, but not of its own accord.

Autonomous systems have many more sensors, cameras, radar, laser, etc to help detect and react to things around it. From what I've seen of systems in development, it can see and react to many things all around the car simultaneously, and even "see" things that our human eyes may not be able to until later. In my mind, cyclists will be far safer when autonomous systems are perfected, as they'll be so much less prone to error than humans.

NoPhart

So Tesla has a feature they call “autopilot or self driving” that isn’t autopilot or self driving? Okay, I get it…

And apparently Tesla does too (now), as they have changed their labeling in the Chinese market. Don’t know if they have a different descriptor here in the USA?


Why didn’t the Tesla see that huge truck blocking half the lane?

Here’s the guy that got a Tesla decapitation demonstrating how the car does all the work and claiming it’s soooo… smart it can see on its’ own in stop and go in traffic. No stress, no worries.


This is what I see happening. You buy a car that has so called “autopilot or self driving” abilities, but you’re suppose to pay attention anyway. When you first get the car you don’t really trust it, so you pay attention with your hands on the wheel and foot covering the brake. This becomes rather boring and you become more comfortable with the car doing all the work. Soon you become inattentive to the reality of driving a car. Your position in the “driver’s seat” soon becomes as if you are sitting in the passenger’s seat.

Next thing you know a huge diesel truck just sitting across the road in front of you not even moving and the Tesla doesn’t even see it (for whatever reason anyone wants to claim, it really doesn’t matter). The Tesla car in “autopilot or self driving” mode goes right under the trucks trailer leaving your head and the Tesla’s roof behind.

“Against the bright Spring sky the, the car’s sensors system failed to distinguish a large white 18-wheel truck and trailer crossing the highway,” Telsa said. The police report in the Levy County Journal said the top of the vehicle “was torn off by the force of the collision.” “The car continued to travel after passing under the truck’s trailer, veered off the road, and then crashed through two fences and into a power pole,” the local police report said. The driver died at the scene.

Hmmm, no worries…

Here’s Volvo’s wonderful system in action a while back.


I’m sure they have “reasons and explanations” these thing happen, but who the hell cares? They happened! If the reasons they claim are true, then why did they test it like that and why didn’t it work?
Volvo doesn’t recommend you test their system with “real people.” WTF! They better damn well test the system with real people before they try to sell it to the public.

Check this article out.

Mercedes' Self-Driving Cars Will Save Passengers, Not Bystanders | Fortune.com

Looks like the bicycle is SOL if “The System” determines the rider is disposable. What happens when the bicyclist is in the cars path on a two lane mountain road with no guard rail protecting a cliff and no traffic coming the opposite direction that is visible to the driver, but not “The System?” Does the self driving car brake and swerve towards the cliff to avoid hitting the guy on the bike and avoid going into the oncoming traffic lane, only to instantly determine there is a cliff there so it turns back to take out the bicyclist, because it determines the rider is “disposable” in order to save the passengers in the car? In this situation a normal driver can take the no oncoming traffic out or even begin slowing when the bicyclist came into view in preparation for the pass, long before “The System” even knows the bicyclist is there.

IMHO self driving cars are simply a VERY BAD IDEA, period. Everyone has an opinion, this is mine. NO WAY JOSE’!

PS: Oh, and let’s not leave Uber out of this conversation. Ever wonder why all their “employees” aren’t employees? Cost savings of subcontractors? Yes. But the real reason is simply because they are just using their drivers as pawns for their end game; which is self driving Uber. Good luck with your life buddy. Here’s your fake background check back. Thank you for helping us bypass all the employee and user protections. YOU’RE FIRED!

350htrr

There are no autonomous cars being sold anywhere... Tesla chose the wrong word/words, to describe what their cars are capable off, and people are stupid... Tesla says in the future all their cars built/sold today, will be capable to be used as autonomous vehicles, again, that's in the future, once the software is capable...

I'm also very sure there will be glitches that kill many people for the first little while, and so what, human drivers kill thousands, tens of thousands every year, if it starts to save more people than it kills it's a step ahead, just like airbags, they killed a few people, now they save thousands... Every year...

PatrickGSR94

Where has Tesla called their system self driving? I've never heard it described as or compared to anything other than an autopilot system. Not understanding the system, and not heeding the warnings they include in the car and with the system to remain focused on the road, is no one's fault other than the driver.

NoPhart

The Tesla system is NOT "self driving," but the term "autopilot" certainly implies it. Sure people shouldn't use it as an autonomous vehicle, because it isn't one. The real question regarding Tesla's system is simply, why didn't the sensors see the diesel truck across the road or the utility vehicle parked in the fast lane? What went wrong?

These systems are the precursor to autonomous vehicles. They encourage driver complacency.

IIRC the Volvo was a prototype self driving car being demonstrated by those that built it and know exactly how it works. Crazy for that to happen in THAT situation.

There are currently no autonomous vehicles sold to the public for good reason!

350htrr

For the car to do what it did in that Tesla video, driving from A to B in regular traffic and regular roads, and then parking, is fantastic... And yes, I am 100% sure people will die, before the system becomes truly close to being 2X better driver than an average human driver... But like I said in the other thread about 5 year predictions in the LCF, it is coming, and it will be safer for bicycling...

slomoshun

And then, maybe, this...

NoPhart

It should be fun when the aftermarket and user installable systems hit the road.


That's when I go full on E-Bike and only ride the bike trails...