NoPhart

Electric bike catches fire in Newport Beach - The Orange County Register

I in a million? Or Chinese crap?

M2faux

Someone shot the battery with a .22
Crazy Cauc-Asians

Dunbar

$2500 bike according to the article. Could it be a Pedego?

speedy25

I see Nopharts article and raise him an updated article-

Couple recounts bizarre, 'one-in-a-million' Newport Beach electric bike fire - The Orange County Register

Check out the electric bike company's website. They state 100% US assembled, but it appears its from 100% Chinese parts. That should include the batteries too. So that Chinese junk comment is probably true.

Good part is the owner provided the couple with new bikes.

Bad part is the owner provided the couple with new bikes. I would have demanded a refund and gotten something better for the same or less money.

-SP

Dunbar

Almost all bikes parts are made in China these days. I don't think it's fair to say that it is all junk but it's up to the manufacturer/reseller to enforce QC standards.

M2faux

Only reason I believe in Chinese bike parts is because bikes are their #1 form of transporatation. The only guarantee is to know the supplier is reputable. I read that back in 2006, Ananda Motors got burnt on a crappy batch of copper for the motor windings. An entire years worth of motors, all garbage. This is the #1 reason to buy from a Ebike dealer. It's worth spending the money to have a warranty from a local shop. These days we are seeing Electric Bicycle Shops pop up everywhere. This is good for all Ebike dealets. 12 million Ebikers on the road. There is plenty of business to go around. Thanks to BF we allcan avoid costly problems of using "garbage" parts no matter which region of Mother Earrh they were manufactured. As for the Ebike fire, we've seen way more car fires. Seriously, who feels safe driving around with an electric fuel pump sitting in a 16 gallon tank of petrol?

Doc_Wui

One in 30 thousand for the USA? Crazy Lennys, an ebike retailer in Wisconsin, had a showroom fire a year ago, blamed on a battery by the firemen. He's brand name bikes, so he's not going to give out the root cause. How many bikes has he sold ..let's guess and say 5 thousand. His odds were lower.

CliffordK

Too hot sitting on the beach?

I would have expected it to happen trying to push 20 MPH up a 20% mountain.

powell

everything, bike parts made in China?
Your Sony camera is made in China.
What makes difference - it is Western brand like SONY, Bosh, etc. are NOT china brand, they manufacture to Western standards no matter where, China, Vietnam, Thailand, etc..
and there are China brands like Shongzong, Promax, 9Continents etc. - they do NOT manufacture to Western standards, they flood markets with cheap junk.
do you see difference ??

Dunbar

Smart phones and laptop computers aren't immune from the problem either. Not to mention all of the cordless tools that use 18650 lithium ion battery packs. I bet most of us don't store our electronics in fire boxes.

Doc_Wui

Actually, I always expected that successful battery makers will gravitate toward the more robust manufacturing procedures because they don't want to see their buildings and shipping docks burn up.

Of course, the hoverboard fiasco proves me wrong.

NoPhart

And then there is the Samsung battery fiasco too. I wonder if the Forest Service can ever ban Samsung phones for trail use because Smokey The Bear doesn't trust them.

Batteries and related circuit board hardware in electric products really do need to have proven trusted QC in the entire chain of production, including the inputs coming from others.

M2faux

Fake 18650 cells are the worst. I know of a professional Ebike battery builder in the U.K. that got burned on a $5,000 order once . He knew right away they were re-labeled. And the supplier just disappeared. At least he suffered the loss and did not pass them off to someone like myself.
And that Prodego battery recall. Lifepo4 pouch cells too. So many battery's recalled. I heard that the battery's had sparks shooting out of it and random moments.

speedy25

In this incident the dealer was quoted as heading for China to talk to their battery maker. If you have done any business with the Chinese, getting product that meets your spec and stays that way is a problem. My brother had some parts made that were a simple brass rod bent a certain way with the ends threaded. SOMEHOW they screwed it up and the first two batches got shipped back! The story about the substandard wire posted previously is another good example. If you were the one making the motors a years worth of production in the scrap heap would put most people instantly out of business.

I wrestled with buying a Sondors in their first offering. Surprisingly they turned out to be very good. Way better than I expected. So we know they can do it right. But how long can they do it right?

-SP

NoPhart

My dog almost died because of the Chinese putting melamine in dog food to boost the protein levels required by law. He is now blind and it is unclear if it was caused by the melamine or something else. He has intestinal issues to this day, which are most likely caused by that attempt at cutting costs and bypass regulation in China. Many other pets here in America died from it.

Believe or not a Chinese producer did the same thing with baby formula milk!

Don't get me started on the many issues that lack of oversight and uncaring cost cutting with no regarding to public safety over there:

- Bought a Chinese tractor PTO driveshaft that wouldn't go on the PTO splines. My brother and I spent 3-4 hours trying to figure out what the problem was. It turned out an internal component of the quick release mechanism was installed backwards. 3-4 hours of two people clearly wiped out any cost savings of buying Chinese.

- Neighbor bought a thistle seed bird feeder because she loved how every time she visit my yard it was full of beautiful finches and other colorful birds, yet she lived right next door and there were very few birds visiting her wonderfully landscaped, two ponds and a swimming pool yard with full bar pool house (great place!). She bought a Chinese thistle seed bird feeder, filled it up and waited for the birds to come. They never came. We were both puzzled. After weeks I was enjoying a BBQ in their little slice of paradise they created and the bird issue came up. I was looking a their bird feeder and noticed something that almost dropped me to my knees with laugher. The Chinese manufacturer put the perch for the bird to stand on "above" the holes for them to feed out of! She tossed it in the trash and bought another one and the birds filled her yard with beauty and cheerful tweeting.

- A company my brother worked for while building power plants made the cost savings mistake of buying D-rings made in China. Some accountant saved a few dollars and thought he was a doing the right thing for the companies bottom line. The D-rings turned out to be made of improper materials and didn't meet the weight carrying specifications stated on them. Thousands of dollars of equipment and was destroyed and lives put at risk from falling equipment. The end result was a complete ban on Chinese manufactured D-rings from all worksites, no exceptions!

- Many probably have heard of the sulfur used as filler in Chinese manufactured drywall, shipped to America and installed in homes; only to have to be removed at huge expense, both legal and other.

It's sad that we have to make broad assumptions regarding Chinese manufacturing and quality control, but there is good reason for those broad opinions. You can't really know who is doing what over there...

KD5NRH

That's the part I just can't figure with some ebike buyers; $500 will get you a pretty darn nice lightly used bike of almost any style you want, so they're paying $2000 just to not have to pedal? Go on Craigslist and get a good used car or motorcycle for half that if you don't want to pedal.

IMO, for ebikes to really catch on the way they should, the new retail price of a good one with ~3-4mi unassisted range, ~10mi lightly assisted range, ~20mph unassisted cruising speed, full fenders and some stock cargo capacity (at least a good rear pannier-ready rack) needs to be down around $600 or less. Just glancing at the first page of hits on Craigslist today I see 3 50+cc scooters and a couple of street motorcycles under $750, and several looks-bad-runs-fine cars in that price range, all with the advantage of long range, the ability to "recharge" in a couple minutes at any gas station, and for the cars, the ability to stay dry/warm in bad weather. (One even has working A/C so you could stay cool too.) I just can't see the point in paying more for an ebike than a functional car unless one has to deal with a revoked or suspended DL that can't be fixed within a month or two.

350htrr

THAT, is a moped. IMO

Dunbar

You can get a pretty good e-bike for ~$1100. Just like with road/mountain bikes you can also spend a lot more than that. You should test ride a good pedal assist e-bike. One of the biggest misconceptions people have is that you don't get any exercise on an e-bike. Most e-bikes these days are pedal assist which means you won't go anywhere unless the rider is pedaling. With a good pedal assist bike the rider gets to decide how hard they want to work.

KD5NRH

No, that's basic practical commuting; some of us need to be at work on time, and the ability to go 20 instead of 6 is pretty significant over an 8 mile commute. Being currently without a car, I don't see the point in having an ebike if I'd still be unable to get to work (or do it in ~30 minutes when a car at the same price can do it in 12) for weeks after a moderate leg injury.

As it stands, it takes me ~35 minutes to get to work if the wind isn't too uncooperative. The worst part of being car free is knowing that a simple quad or hamstring pull would make it impossible to bike commute (or even make ~4 mile grocery runs) for longer than I have sick leave available. Another ACL tear would go into "just hope to find another job quickly after it heals, and beg for food in the meantime" territory. Begging rides from coworkers for weeks may work for a while, but leaves me more or less at the mercy of the one coworker who wouldn't be going 4-5 miles out of his way to get me, and who isn't always in the office anyway. An ebike that can't go at all unassisted, or won't go over 6-8mph unassisted wouldn't be worth $100 to me, because it would be utterly useless for my commute.

Dunbar

Those are all factors that you need to include in your cost-benefit when determining if living car free makes sense for you. Getting rid of my car would save me $300-400 per month. I live in an urban setting so I have ride-sharing at my beck-and-call pretty much 24/7. There are other options like Zip Car, Turo and traditional car rental services available as a supplement. Hypothetically, an injury would certainly spike my transportation expenses in the short term but I would still come out way ahead in the long run. And there's nothing stopping you from buying another car in the future if you change your mind. The break even point would be pretty easy to calculate.

Anyways, that's getting OT since there's a forum here where you can discuss living car free.

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car-free/

350htrr

It's the not pedaling part that makes it into a moped IMO. Pretty well ALL E-Bikes will go 20MPH with just a little pedaling.

350htrr

You, are missing the whole point of a "legal E-Bike" and that is to NOT make it a moped, but to keep the assistance down to a level where it is still considered a bicycle and allow more people to ride a bicycle...

kickstart

The concept of a sub $1000 price point is simply unrealistic. $600 these days is about as low as one can go on a bicycle that's going to stand up to daily all weather use as reliable transportation for the average person. There's simply no way to electrify a bike that cheaply and end up with anything remotely serviceable or reliable.
I paid $1800 for my Radwagon, if one were to put the same amount of money into purchasing a cheap car minus a years worth of gas, maintenance, licensing, and insurance, $1800 is most likely going to purchase not much more than a lot of headaches.

The concept of a 350W, highly regulated, slightly more than a bicycle under ideal conditions e-bike is also totally unrealistic, and would doom e-bikes to obscurity, and uselessness for most people.
Being a heavier cyclist in a very hilly environment who typically carries a significant amount of stuff, 350w is hardly enough to compensate for the additional weight and drag of the electrical system on some of the hills I do every day.
The whole reason I decided to get an e-bike was to significantly lessen the effort on hills, and increase my average speed which has been an increasing issue due to my knees, An e-bike regulated to not exceed the capability of grandma cruising a flat MUT would have no to me value in the real world of wind, long steep hills, congested arterials, high speed multi lane roads, impatient motorists, hyperactive roadies, and a physically demanding job.
I'm very happy wiser, calmer minds, rather than fear mongers are setting the standards higher than that.

PatrickGSR94

You're leaving out a LOT in your comparison. Take a 25 mile daily round trip commute for example. Buy a car, register it, insure it, put gas in it, maintain it, repair it if needed. Possibly also pay for parking if you live/work in the city. How much have you spent for a year on that car?

Now instead of a car, buy an e-bike, or convert a cheap bike to e-bike status with something like a BBS02 mid-drive kit and quality battery, which I just did for around $1,200. If you have to buy the bike also, it could easily be done for $1,500. No registration, no insurance, no gas. Do that 25 mile commute on the e-bike every weekday, recharge it for pennies each night, and expect the battery to last for 2 up to 4 years if you really stay on top of battery maintenance by keeping it in the 20%-80% range. How much do you think that bike will cost at the end of a year?

Now for someone like me, I did my e-bike conversion to supplement my road bike commuting, to further replace more commuting days where I might have driven the car instead, such as a day like today with a heavy headwind. Sure there will still be days where I drive instead of ride any of my bikes. But any day that I ride instead of drive the car, I save more than $2 in gas alone, not to mention the savings in maintenance and repairs. In the last 6 months I've only driven my car 2,500 miles, and to me that's amazing. I expect that number to drop even more now that I have the e-bike and hopefully can regularly bike commute 3 or even 4 days a week now.

KD5NRH

Reg is $56/yr and basic liability insurance $600. That has to happen whether I commute daily in it or just use it for emergencies and weekend trips. So first year cost on a $700 car is a bit under $1400. Gas for my current 16mi round trip commute would be about $1/day in my last good beater. Still right around $1600, not counting the weekend trips or getting back to my aikido class a couple times a month, but neither of those is happening on a bike anyway, electric or not. (Aikido class is 55mi hilly miles each way (65 if I have to avoid the interstate) and most of the weekend trips are around 200mi round trip.)

As for repairs, if it starts edging into costing as much for maintenance and repairs in a year as I paid for it, I go back to Craigslist. The little '97 Saturn I had was $700, got about $300 in initial repairs, and maybe another $500 over the 3 years I took to put 180k more miles on it. If not for my general aversion to head gasket repairs (not because of the gasket replacement itself, but because it invariably ends up with a whole heck of a lot of "well, I should replace that while I've got it taken apart this much") I could probably have gotten another 100k out of that car.