neuer31

Hey guys

I need your help as I am very new to this.
So recently I decided that I wanted to have a bike, so I decided I would like to have an e-bike for long touring. I never did build any bikes and quite frankly barely do any DIY, though I am quite skilled with computer building (doing waterloops aswell) so I would say if there are instructions I should have no problems building my own bike. Ie. doing custom waterloops on PC I easily learned on Youtube.

I am 187cm tall (6.135171feet) and 80 kg (176.37lbs).

What I would like to have:
• The complete package should cost as least as possible (for the moment budget is around 1000$), but should hold for 10 years plus (If I understood it correctly the battery needs to be replaced in less than that, that would be okay) - in my country prebuilt e-Bikes are usually 2500 USD and more, which I can't afford and quite frankly I know they have a big profit margin
• The bike should be a mountain bike, as we have a lot of beautiful mountains here which I really would like to climb
• As of that a fat tire bike would be nice, but I didn't look for such sofar as I assumed they would cost and weight a lot more
• As of that it should have front and rear suspension, nothing fancy there needed, simple suspension should do it as well
• The bike MUST be foldable, as my flat is very small, I have no cellar, it is forbidden to put down bikes in the floor and outside is too insecure (they love to steal bikes here).
• The bike should be electric and not violate the laws in my country (see further down below)
• I really would like to have regenerative brakes, as Switzerland is quite hilly and it would be really worth it
• I would like to have a pedal assist range of 120km (75 miles) or more, not calculating in the regenerated energy
• If there is something like that, a way to transport the bike on my shoulders, because my stairways are like 5 floors

The law in my country:
Full text in German: m-way (dot) ch/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/e-bike-elektrovelo-Gesetzeslage_2017.pdf
• Category 1: Max. 500W, with pedal assist up to 25kph (15.5342mph), on pure electric up to 20kph (12.4274mph), with a bell mounted, front and rear lights
• Category 2: Max. 1000W, with pedal assist up to 45kph (27.9617mph), on pure electric up to 30kph (18.6411mph), small yellow numberplate incl. theoretical test, insurance, motorbike helmet, mirrors, bell or horn, special front/rear lighting, if selfbuilt they will check if the bike is conform with regulations (similiar to a car)
Both need fix light front and rear and should be shining at night at clear weather at least 100m.
I would prefer category 1, if this can go up steep hills, as this means less paperwork, a lot less costs etc., but if not possible otherwise I would be ready to do the extra mile.

As a beginning, I found a bike which is quite cheap (300 bucks with transportation bag)
amazon (dot) de/Ecosmo-zusammenklappbares-Mountainbike-Fahrrad-Shimano-26SF02BL-Transporttasche/dp/B00ENH01SM/ref=sr_1_56?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1510857877&sr=1-56

But I searched for hours and couldn't find an upgrade kit with regenerative brakes which actually fits to proposed bike. Further I don't know if motors and batteries are mountable / fitting to that bike.
I also have no idea what battery to use (especially to get that range) or how to attach stuff like lights and USB ports to it (for mobile phone).


I would appreciate any help

tyrion

Here's your link:
https://www.amazon.de/Ecosmo-zusamme...857877&sr=1-56

Folding, full suspension, regenerative brakes, 120km range, shoulder transportable - that's quite a difficult list of requirements. I think you're going to have to prune that list.

You could put a Copenhagen wheel on the bike that you linked to - that's a low power, low range solution.

neuer31

I think this should be doable ...I mean the bike provided is already foldable and "full" suspension

Afairead (please correct me), there are upgrade kits for <500$ which have regenerative braking function.
The thing is, some have it included and some are capable of, but you have to buy someting extra ...
I just don't know which are compatible with the "base" bike, that in terms of tire/mounting width (its obvious that I would need a 26" inch tire) and in terms of general mounting, ie. can I mount the battery on this bike or does it break the frame etc.
1000$ should not be exceeded in total build costs.

Here examples of conversion kits I found:
Example 1: ebay (dot) com/itm/Risunmotor-36V-48v-500W-Rear-Wheel-Ebike-Conversion-Kit-Square-Wave-Controller/182153769550?hash=item2a6935f24e:m:mMV7ATnQT4uIs6B6FuefhVg
Example 2 [this would have regen but its fat tire]: ebay (dot)com/itm/48v-500w-Fat-Bike-Fat-Tire-Rear-Wheel-Conversion-Kit-Square-Wave-Electric-Bike/182157361407?hash=item2a696cc0ff:m:mCQtf043SIl6Z15QBfuxfnA
Maybe there is also a special place you can reliably buy them from, etc.

• Shoulder transport: I just put it in because there might be some thing out there - but thats okay if there is not - but better ask than not
• Range: Afairead (please correct me), this is simply dependant on battery size - but i have no idea how much I need for which range - I know that there is 1 e-Bike out there with a range of 200km +

2old

The bike you referenced seems (based on its diameter) to have a geared motor which doesn't support regen, and IMO is junk. You might read the tutorial(s) at ebikesca before proceeding.

Mark Mandolin

If you want regenerative brakes you would need a direct drive hub motor and that is very heavy. Seriously you going to take bike up 5 flights of stairs? No elevator? And expect 120km range kit for under $1000? I believe you might maybe get a battery that would give you 120 km range from a 250 w motor for $1, 000. Assume you mean USA $
You get what you pay for. I just bought a used Norco Katmandu with disc brakes and decent suspension front fork for $200 Canadian. I know. It doesn't fold. Just throwing out suggestions. Regenerative brakes in the real world only add 5% to your range. For me the value is in a brake system that slows bike down without wearing brake pads you have three instead of two brakes. If you put a 2.35" tire maximum spec. for that bike it will smooth out bumps and better quality then the low end full suspension bikes you seem interested in. Appreciate your on a budget but why waste your money on junk?
Even if it's new junk? Finally my kit came with no instructions and further I had to file frame carefully as rear sprocket was rubbing slightly on frame. I bought the more expensive Crystalite hub the cheaper hubs apparently not made to close tolerances and can be sloppy I've heard. I had no problem installing kit but expensive kit. The cheaper ones tend to have more issues. Bottom line you get what you pay for. You need to do a lot of research and pick only a couple of things from your bucket list. If you can build everything you want for $1000 us please post. I will be very impressed.
Good luck

neuer31

Yes 5 - its a very old building, back then they had no elevators and because it is very old it is under history protection (you must know Zürich is there since 2000 years, the building itself might very well be 100+ years old and they want to keep the beauty of the historic inner city) so such changes are not permitted and so it never got retrofitted. The same reason why it has no cellar.

Not talked about having a 200km because I could imagine it being waaaaaay to expensive ... what do you think about 100 - 130 km range? What would a battery for such costs?

I didn't know it is junk, what do you recommend me?
That is a problem, I lack the experience and knowledge to build something good within reasonable amount of money.

The best would be if someone makes me a proposal which parts (bike, motor, battery etc.) I should buy. In this case lets go for Cat 1, max 25kph pedelec, as specified above. If you tell me that regenerative brakes are really not worth it (ie. weightwise) than so be it and then I go without it.
Important is that it is a mountainbike and foldable, aswell as Cat 1 e-Bike and that the power is enough to aid in getting hills up.

Really appreciate the help sofar guys

Mark Mandolin

Learn

Rick Imby

With 5 flights to carry a bike up I would forego an ebike and get a top quality folding bike---in the $800 range and ride it.

Most ebikes with significant range (over 15 miles) will be over 40 pounds. When you are trying to go Cheap you will get heavier or very low durabilty.

Good luck

Doc_Wui

Regeneration only works on direct drive (DD) bikes. The big advantage on a DD motor is simplicity and often high speed. No moving parts. The tradeoffs are that most are heavy and harder to pedal as a normal bike. In the USA, these motors are imported from China and available as inexpensive 1000W kits, quite illegal in Europe. People buy them, add a battery and easily go 45-50 km/hour. A DD motor that is legal in Europe probably wouldn't be suitable for mountainous country. In addition, you would probably be walking it home if you ran out of power.

The next choice is a geared motor. These are smaller in diameter, lighter weight, and have lower top speeds than DD motors. I've ridden one of your class 1 bikes in the mountains, but not on the mountains. Quite a difference, as I was riding routes that were originally carved out for rails and now carry only bicycles. If other cyclists can manage your hills, your class I will also do it. Well, my wife did it and she is 65 years old, easily passing other cyclists who were huffing/puffing.

If you want to be a cycling giant, well a mid drive motor will master mountains if it has a good gear set and a rider intelligent enough to use them.

For lightest weight, pick a lightweight bike and add a 500W motor (3-4KG) and a small battery. Add a second battery to extend your range. Expect to pedal and help the motor. If you look at this as a way to get out and augment your exercise, and don't mind coming home needing a shower, a pedal assist ebike can be fun.

I don't know if you can meet your budget though, unless you buy a non-running bike from an owner unwilling to pay shop rates to fix it, and then fix it yourself. With all the ebikes in Europe, maybe there are a lot of bargains in the used market.

Nelson37

So, you want a lightweight, foldable, full-suspension mountain bike, with regen braking, and a 75 mile range, for under $1000.00?

Do you want it delivered and setup by the Swedish bikini team, also?

Maybe, a 40-50 lb bike with a 30 mile range and front suspension only MIGHT be doable and not a total piece of crap, for really really CLOSE to $1000, but your full list is total fantasy land.

Can you currently bike 50 miles unassisted?

Can you move to a less crappy apartment?

Can you rent secure storage for a non-folding bike close to your current apartment?

Rick Imby

There is a brutally honest person---Nelson----you said what I said only not quite as delicately----grin

neuer31

Better than making hopes ...
Im just glad for any information out there as there is not really a guide for DIY foldable eBikes

That is possible? I hope the girls are not only there for setting it up xD

Sadly apartments are extremely expensive where I live, the cheap ones are very difficult to obtain, but I am trying atm, it will probably take me at least until the end of the year or so to find a suitable one ...
I rather have a foldable one, as I could take it in my train and on flights without additional charge, further they normally fit a car.

What would be the budget for the one I specified?
What would be the budget for Class 1, foldable e-Mountainbike, pedal assist range 120km?
All without transport costs, just parts itself

Nelson37

First, the range estimates you are reading are complete and total BS. Most commercial e-bikes have a realistic range of 20 miles or less. Remember that you never, ever want to discharge your battery below 20% capacity, unless you want to replace your most expensive component every 2 or 3 years, or sooner.

Also, you have hills in Switzerland, and hill climbs are very, very taxing on battery power. Reduces range DRAMATICALLY.

What is YOUR maximum range, on a bicycle, uninterrupted continuous pedaling? Your desired range involves over 2 hours seat time, EACH WAY. I would guess that you have not done anything approaching this, because it is not really feasible for most folks on anything approaching a regular basis.

Yes, motor power can significantly increase your speed, OR your range, but you want BOTH, and that means a LOT of battery. Getting 2 miles per amp-hour is possible going slow and pedaling a lot and you would need 35, that is THIRTY-FIVE amp-hours for your desired range. Cut that in half and that is still a large battery.

E-bike batteries are NOT repeat NOT acceptable on commercial airliners. Go to ebikes.ca and check out their LiGo batteries, which currently ARE legal to fly with. You would need an absolute minimum of 10, that is TEN, of these, that won't be nearly enough, and that alone blows your budget by several hundred dollars, without shipping, and you have to get them to where you are, somehow.

Dahon and Brompton folders are two favored brands, also the Montegue Paratrooper. None of them, with the possible exception of the Paratrooper, has the room for your required battery, so that means hauling 15-20 pounds of battery on a backpack. For 4 hours or more. Every ride.

Something has to give. You can carry a charger with you. You can cut your range requirement dramatically. You can find a place to store a real bicycle with no origami. You can follow Lance Armstrong's training regimen. You can more than double your current budget. You can do ALL of these things, and you still won't get everything you want. Such is life.

If you can currently pedal 20 miles continuous, unassisted, that is a starting point. If not, then there is just NWIH.

Also, the Swedish Embassy apparently still gets several calls a year about booking the team.

neuer31

Even the MOAR Bike?

Last time I did have a bike, I did 50+miles on a mountainbike

Dumb idea: What about recharging with solar panels (probably you don't get nearly enough energy) during driving?

LOL!

Would you say its more worth it to go for a light mountainbike, instead of an e-Bike for such long range?

Nelson37

The MOAR bike states an 85 mile range. Sure, if you turn the motor off and pedal all day, you can go farther than that. Motor only, 30 miles is really pushing it. Above 20mph, pedaling effort just about makes up for increased wind resistance. They are lying through their teeth. There are no magic beans.

The whole ebike industry is fairly new, and unfortunately there are a lot of former used car salesman involved. Liars, scammers, BS artists abound, believe NOTHING in an advertisement. That MOAR bike is one of the WORST examples I have seen.

Would be a good idea for you to visit the simulator at ebikes.ca, or other, and run a few dozen siimulations to get a handle on what is actually possible, and what is just absolute fantasy.

Solar panels are great, if you want to ride for an hour or two, camp out for an entire afternoon, rinse and repeat. Sure you can use them while riding, as long as a strong gust of wind doesn't blow you off the side of a mountain, you'll be just fine.

IF repeat IF you can pedal the entire trip, adding the motor and battery is just extra weight to haul upstairs. The drawbacks quite literally outweigh the benefits.

If you have not pedaled a fat bike, I strongly recommend you try one out before buying. They are a pig to pedal, and IMO a silly fad. They were originally created to ride on beach sand. SFAIK, not much of that around your area. They are sold largely to stupid people who judge a mechanical device on whether it looks cool as opposed to whether or not it actually works well. That's why you see so many people on knobby tired MTBs who ride only on the street and never hit a trail, the world is full of idiots.

neuer31

But a lot of snow ... in the past I struggled a bit with icey parts of snow but otherwise was fine

Its like ARRRGH ... difficult to decide as it is so hilly and it is more logical to go for eMTB to make those uphill sections